Tram Killed UO is Tram back?

After watching the VID on FPO and all the different games mode I find that this might be TRAM based game but in sheeps clothing.

In MMOs there is a perfect balance... between casual players, rewards, RISK, and of course "fairness".

My question: "IS FPO Tram? At any point in this game will i be able to log into the OPO and see ALL the players of SOTA or is the client filter going to filter some out?"

I guess my concern is there was initially a high stakes game in the original MMO UO. Players would strive to be the best pvpers or crafters and likewise their guilds would do the same. In doing so there was always a CONSTANT risk that someone would come along and prove you otherwise less than sufficient.

Once Tram came along Fel was EMPTY and used only by people who safely level'd up, gear'd up, friended or "zerg'd" up and teleported into fell to roam in large packs preying on unsuspecting reds.

Seems like the "i dont want to get pk'd so ill just play with my friends and max out before i go to the risky world" is back.

So if there is even a way to play online with the entire population of the game (which is what im looking for) online with me... there should be a GREATER reward for people who play online and take the greatest risk. Example... my skills should increase more if i am in a pk area, the loot drops should be increased if I am way deep in PK area. Rewards, exp, loot, whatever SHOULD BE LESS if i am playing chicken playing solely with my buddies who wont pk me.

Just some questions, concerns, Ideas, omg dont bring TRAM back or ill throw the moonstones back at ya.

 

Nay ... its called "Risk" I have played many games and never broken a sweat while even fighting the "max boss" persay.

Games that I enjoy, I break a sweat for example ... while ... farming logs. Why? Its not that i get my jolly off farming logs, its that I have to watch out. I can't just auto key "farm" and happily watch my pack fill with delights. I have to actually "pay attention" to my surroundings.

Meaning:

No Holding hands...
No crying about items I can... (heres a big one) RE FARM...

My thing is this... if you WANT a TRAM type environment where only you and your cearbear buddies roll around collecting trinkets... FINE... I HAVE NO quams, issues, or problems with YOUR game style.

I just want to be rewarded for wanting to play MY type of game style which should be more rewarding to me both in personal taste... AND in actual game rewards.

You have $10 to save
do you save it in
a) bank
b) 401k
c) Stocks
d) under your pillow

You will make more of a reward based on risk where? You have less to loose where? So its all a matter of choice but I should be rewarded likewise. I see NO reason why someone who puts their money under a pillow get more money from someone who is day trading in stocks. (and heres the key) *** NOR WOULD I BEGRUDGE anyone who chooses a DIFFERENT option than mine. BUT DONT BEGRUDGE ME when i expect and gain a better reward.

 

Don't really see what's so rewarding with killing a new player over and over again until he quits the game.

Also why should YOU be rewarded for the way you play if OTHERS doesn't get rewarded the same for the way they enjoy to play the game, it makes no sense and you seem to be nothing but a egoistic person that wants to get rewarded for killing off people that haven't even got a chance to learn how to play the game, also your grammar.

 

Yeah yeah maybe i need a grammar lesson from Mr Shakespeare but you kind sir need to learn to read... read to... "understand" what someone is saying for you... kind sir... is not understanding.

1. you assume i PK newbs
2. you assume i want to be rewarded for, as you say: killing off people that haven?t even got a chance
3. Like other people who are ... ahem ... afraid just at the sheer mention of REDs or PK dont read well or understand my point and then just slander me.

To enlighten you because it seems like you have NO clue what goes on in the "PK" world or "open PvP world"

1. Not every person who is/was RED because they killed newbs... ever get frsutrated because a blue ass was being a jerk? Guess not.
2. You assume that all people in the "pk" world roll around aimlessly killing poor souls like yourself and gorging on the splendor of loot. Nay. Some people like to hang in the open PvP world... FOR the (and dont be scared here it comes) "Risk". I usually stay blue and (get ready scary words again) "HUNT" or "KILL" or "ATTACK" (OMG he said those SKERRY W3Rdz) PKs... Or sometimes i like the risk involved with manuvering my character in a world that has people that may be after me.
3. Some Points to answer you

a) IF YOU EVER DARE OR OMG COME TO THE OPEN PVP WORL/area dying only makes you better, makes you want to "GET" better because not everyone is born with a naga mouse, 16 scripts, and the knowledge double tape x,y,a,bb,a up down God mode and kill you

b) If you stay in the FPO it does not affect you... why cry?

c) you never have to enter or leave the FPO... why cry?

d) you can play forever without entering a pvp zone... so.... WHY LIMIT MY STYLE?

your like the ban GUNz advocates.... scared because it looks dangerous... ban weapon A because it looks scary without any knowledge than weapon B is a much more damage producing weapon... and C ... CRY, run in fear, rip your eyes out... because your super law abiding neighbor owns 4 of them, safely stowed.

OH MY GOD A PVP AREA WHICH I SHALL NEVER ACCESS BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO PVP.... rage rage rage rage OMG RAGE...

"Look Lord British that guy over there is pvping another GUY.... OMG my eyes burn... kill them BOTH"

If i play with the risk, the rewards should increase. If you play with your friends...then your rewards should NOT deminish but NOT increase.

So you undurrrpstand me now? I am not limiting or taking away N E TING from your gameplay. Just raising the point that I request a higher reward for gaming with risk.

I bet your one of those Tram guys who complained when you died in Fel in a 1v1 to a red, then months later... had noooo problems rolling up from Tram with 10 guys jumping that same red 10v1.

 

Just on some of the points discussed.

1. I PK nubs, it is what I live for, and I enjoy it so very much.
2. The only reward I am after is the thrill of the kill and the QQ of the nub.
3. I get the point, no need to correct english here, it is not a colledge class.


1. A lot of blues are worse than Reds, they just try harder to stay blue. But that takes too much effort for me to care about.
2. Yeah have to say, I do roll around aimlessly killing poor souls, just to grinch all their crap and laugh on the way out really. Often I can't even carry all the stuff, so I'll dump it around the corner for the world to kill it.

 

LB please dont let the Trammies kill us with their Fuzzy Wuzzy

 

Folks,

I know PvP is inherently a heated topic, and open discussions are great, but this thread has several comments that are failing to abide by the forum rules*.

Please remember: Treat others as you would like to be treated, do not patronise others, and please avoid using profanity. This includes assailing the grammar, and the general messages of others.

Let's keep our forums a place to be proud of.

* https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=welcome-to-the-shroud-of-the-avatar-community-forum

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love open pvp but the newbies gotta get a chance too.

 

I'm only speaking for myself, but if this was an Open World PvP environment, then I would not participate in the game. I wouldn't play it, though I already bought it with my donation.

This game seems to have attracted quite a few of the old school UO PvP players who are looking for a renaissance in the offing. I don't believe it's going to happen for you guys though, and if it does, I won't be there to see it.

Your fun is in destroying others happiness without their consent.

That being said, I'm not really worried about it. I do not believe that PvP will ever go back to the original UO model.

Really though, only time and information will tell.

 

None consensual pvp only works well if you have a great community, and I've lost a lot of faith in online communities after seeing game after game with this type rule set flop.

None-consensual pvp will attract to many players who do not care about the game, and will go through great lengths to ruin other players fun to build themselves up. Folks will rage quit, and the game will stagnate with only a small number of new player in-flux.

I enjoy good pvp games, but a pk'er game ... which I may be wrong but sounds like this is what some of you are asking for, will kill SotA. But, like some of you have posted already, I am not to worried we will see this happening.

 

We will have a great community so let's steer away from that argument and down to the facts. Without risk there is no reward. If you want to collect fancy colored pixels, they make plenty of games to do that but not here, where risk is an inherent part of the game. I'm not saying new players start in Buccaneer's Den with no guards but I refuse to accept another Trammel or anything close to it where people can risk absolutely nothing and get equivalent rewards of going to the dangerous areas. The problem if you try to limit the number of 'dangerous areas' is you're going to create breeding grounds for this sort of behavior and become more of a nuisance for those chasing the rewards while trying to avoid the PKs.

I have seen with my own eyes great communities develop ORGANICALLY that help develop new players and this is how meaningful relationships develop. At the peak of Ultima Online guilds would scout the newbie spawn areas hoping to get a few new recruits. Yes, it sucks to be a newbie lost in one of Richard's wild and dangerous worlds. Trust me I got killed on the east road for about 5 months before I finally decided to I'd had enough, joined forces with some fellows and quickly skilled up so I could fight back. Frankly if someone is going to quit over getting PK'd are the same people that are going to rage quit when they die with their best weapons and they get looted which is going to happen again and again and again and again.

And again and again and again.

Face it, we're all going to die ALOT. Probably lose our favorite weapon a few times and maybe even break a few keyboards but I'd rather live life having emotions instead of playing bejeweled which has never given me an adrenaline rush.

 

If some guy is running around killing new people near towns, I would like them to get an "evil" reputation for that area and the NPCs wouldn't deal with them. But they could still be considered "good" in a different area.

If someone wants to "roleplay" a lunatic that runs around killing people, I'm fine with that. But there should be a way the community can deal with people like that, without breaking from the immersion of the game.

 

Here watch this interview. There is a lot of good information about how PKs and Thieves almost killed UO and caused the creation of Trammel. All financial my friends and this is most likely how it will be viewed in SotA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MOTVcrb-sOE#!

 

I might have missed something but isn't the point of having both a friends-only-online and an open-world-online option to make the greatest number of players happy? The player-killers and open-player-versus-players will have their un-filtered world and the players that aren't as fond of the free-for-all get to do their own thing - I'm not seeing a reason for concern.

Apparently the idea that everyone needs to risk being murdered randomly throughout the world is considered necessary for a particular crowd of player - but where's the fairness in that? Doesn't the other crowd of players/customers have a say? The idea that Trammel was for cowards is adorably immature and the idea that non-player-versus-players don't deserve to play the same game as player-killers do is downright laughable.

I'm of the opinion that Ultima Online was a game and not a social experiment, but arguments like this are very curious. The argument of "You don't like it - go play another game" could go both ways you understand. If I were a video game developer creating a game-world aimed at making the greatest number of people happy then why on earth would I cater to one crowd and not the other - or in the case being made with this project so far - why not both simultaneously?

And if one crowd says that it's enjoyment hinges on the prevention of another crowd's enjoyment - well why the hell should they be given any mind? I hope you find something about it worth playing even if a Trammel-like aspect exists; but if not I don't think the vast majority of other players will lose sleep over it.

 

I disagree. Open pvp is what made UO great. I do not like pking my self. I like the sense of danger and the trials and tribulations that it brings. All the friends I made in UO were due to this. Fighting off reds or pks bonded you to like minded people. Every other game I've tried gets so boring because of the lack of danger. Killing npcs can only be so fun.

Its human nature after being pked or stolen from to be upset. I've been a admin on server. You feel bad for this people and want to make it easier for them. But making it easier is what ruins it for them. They miss out on making new friends, growing and overcoming.

Trammel killed Uo because it removed the fun of overcoming. Not to mention the effects it has on a economy when you can no risk gold farm all day.

I repeat I hate PKs but I want them part of the game. They are a necessity to make the world feel alive and force player interaction that makes games great.

 

Exactly addrox i feel the same way you do. With risk there shall be reward and the risk that there was in old school uo was intense but rewarding. Simply exiting a town to mine or chop wood got the blood pumping. I get that some people want to play games and be half asleep but there are those of us that like the rush.

There needs to be more reward for being in a pvp zone. Not because i want more but because if there is a zone that you can do all your hunting and gathering with no risk people will use it with the end result being low population in the pvp zones. You end up with a completely different breed of pvp. People then would only enter the pvp zone with the sole purpose of slaughtering others. As a person who enjoys every aspect of the game i want them to be all incorporated at once and not spread out amoung different zones.

Btw, why does everytime someone ssays they like pvp people interpret that as kill newbies. My favorite part of uo pvp was helping newbies that were being pked.

 

Heres a couple of Good points people bring up...

1. Fairness... there is no such thing. Is life fair? NO. Are games fair? NO. Pong is not a fair game, usually the person with the best reflexes can win the game. Lets blame someone because we ALL cant be the best.

Please understand seems NO ONE is really grasping the REAL issue here...

Tram Killed UO... Why? All the "PKs are mean" people ran out of fell stuck around in Tram to safely build up with items and in player base.... then were MORE than happy to roll back into Fel with their 10 blue friends and Gank the PKs, the "PKs that were SO eVile" for killing you a month earlier.

I am saying TRAM KILLED UO... the ability for people to level with no fear and gain the same reward for it is not right.

More Risk = More Reward. if you question that, dont reply to this post at all.

2. Suffice it to say... i would guess... no less than 50% of the people (its probably more to about 80%) who are backers are probably Old School PvPers but more so people who played in FEL... not Tram.

Remember just because I play in and OPEN pvp world does not make me anything except someone who likes more Risk. For that I should get more rewards that someone that does not take Risk.

For example Im sure ALL of you will understand... someone who bakes BREAD and only bakes and sells bread may earn a decent living.

A Dragon slayer would probably make more money, riches, loot, fame etc. Does that not make sense?

3. For all of you who passout at the sheer mention of PK... or PVP (relax no one is going to pvp you in this forum its ok stay with me here dont "Kal Ort Por") Understand this game seems it will have an FPO style where you and your guild, your 16 friends: "WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY IN TRAM ALL ALONE CHILLING LOOTING PWNING ETC" ... under FPO it seems unless YOU "invite" a pker to your instanced game you will NOT have to worry about ME or anyone SO WHY ARE YOU HERE CRYING ABOUT PVP??? Like the Dev said you still are a part of the online but in more of a "TRAM" style

4. I am refering to the people who end up playing Online... in the full Online experience. LB mentioned there may be some risks, there maybe some areas of GREATER risks. I am assuming he is referring to PK areas. OBVIOUSLY the FPO player may NOT NEED TO worry about it. So if im playing online and i end up doing something in the Full Online area, in a pvp area at that, I DESERVE MORE REWARD in Skill and Loot than MR. FPO and his 35 happy guildmates rolling around the land killing NPC mobs.

PLEASE I can only beg you UNDERSTAND the point.

THIS IS NOT: "How do you feel about Pks and PvP"

I really would love a reponse to how this will work. Tram totally killed PvP and the gameplay in UO, because the complainers went to Tram skilled up, grouped up, then came and killed off whoever was left in Fel. (Funny how the beaten down usually end up "beating" others down when they are on top)

Tram killed the Economy because if you think about it... its harder to get an item, if you have to kill a hard NPC Mob, THEN, ON TOP OF IT, avoid players as you make your way to the bank. Hence.... the item Is MORE valuable than TRAMMERS who just had to kill the mobs over and over. Remeber how many times in TRAM you had to wait for a respawn? BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS CAMPING the TOP places???

TRAM KILLED UO ... dont repeat

 

The ideal pvp environment would be one with no nonpvp zones because simply adding a nonpvp zone will distort the economy and population spread. In old school uo there was always somewhere to pvp. When you incorporate a nonpvp zone there is now potentiall situations where there could be nowhere to pvp.

So if they dont develop a 2nd server with pvp rulesets then at the very least they need to make the risky pvp zones more rewarding.

 

I completely agree with Addrox, tram killed UO. And I believe it deprived many people of a wonderful experience, it deprived them of the emotion, the exhilaration and thrill of living in an environment that held challenges beyond the AI.

UO never really had an overabundance of PKs. I played the game for several years, never turning into a pk. But I Love, absolutely LOVED PvP. I dueled all the time, and I fought PKs when they showed up somewhere. I remember the first few times I was pk'd. It really make my hands shake with adrenaline, it made me addicted to the game. Meeting new people was exciting. This is what Tram killed out of UO.

No one wants to be a "victim," but really, what do you lose? If the game has a good economy, the items should be easily destructible and their loss should not be such a major setback. Unless someone is destroying your house, I can not see why people are so concerned about a bit of armor scraps and maybe some reagents.

Tram killed UO.. i feel like I'm just rambling here, so I'll end it by saying:

Please, make this game open pvp, and make people make a permanent choice: either play it as an mmo, or play it as an mo with your pals. No switching back and forth.. Let people choose the style they enjoy and stick to it.

 

The evidence that tram killed Uo is in the fact that pretty much anyone who makes a free uo shard goes oldschool ruleset. And there have been 1000s of free shards. I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of people who are against pvp arent actually too familiar with how it was. Yes there were pks but they werent infesting the world because there were just as many if not more people out there hunting pks. The life of a pk was not killing newbies all day. Most people became a pk because they new it meant they would inherit more risk. Uo was pure adrenaline man. And if you dont know what it means to play a video game and have an andrenaline rush then you are and have missed out.