Two ADV level 90's - dragon slaying difficult

The point is it isn't a race - there's nothing on the other side of the gap except a minimal increase to your capabilities.
It isn't a rich man's game unless you're obsessed about being a "top player" ...whatever that's worth. And there's value in the journey itself, not just buying your way to the top, like most other things in life. I'd argue that the journey is kind of the entire point. Sure, you could go drop 10 grand and buy a levelled up account to play with or pay for a levelling service, and no judgement if that's what folks want to do, but it is completely unnecessary to enjoy what the game has to offer. The fact is that most of the current content can be done long before you even approach the "gap."
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Yep, and I completely stand by it.

Even a game like Ultima has 'the gap' - I came to UO very very late - my husband is an old school player and tried to guide me through it. It took me a couple months or so to get my character maxed out where I couldn't level anymore. I really enjoyed the crafting aspects and busied myself with this and getting money to design my house. And then I was faced with the giant wall of most areas I wanted to explore still killed me, and dying caused me to lose my stuff. I redid my build a dozen or so times, sought out veteran players for advice. I made 4-5 characters and maxed them with different builds and ran into the same problem that anything harder than that harpy cave inevitably got me killed. The only real upgrades for me at this point in gear were extremely rare items that I'd be grinding cash for months to afford since they dropped off things I had no chance of killing. Watching my husband steamroll content with his giant dragon pet thing made me feel like if I wasn't a tamer then I shouldn't bother. Once I ran out of things to explore, faced with the inability to 'get better' via either skills or equipment, short of going and paying cash for things, I quit in frustration shortly thereafter. I KNOW that Ultima is the beloved nostalgic game for many people here, but I felt the gap far, far more cruelly there than I ever have in Sota, and that was with a capped system.

Most of the players I ran into had been playing for YEARS, they had EVERYTHING, and there was simply no path I could take to even begin to get from where I was to where they were. I had the skills levelled up, sure, but was still light years away from the capabilities of folks with years invested. There was just no clear way forward.

In more modern MMOs, you level cap and then begins the gear grind.

At least the mercy in Sota is you aren't reliant on a raid force to make meaningful progress and can go about things at your own pace instead of simply hitting a wall. I consider this to be one of the game's strengths.

I agree, but, well, that ship has sailed. And now that it has sailed, the solution to the high tier people farming content is not to make that content so hard that it is unrewarding or pointless for everyone else. Alternative routes of limitation would be far more suitable. What if a dragon would only spawn for 'you' once per day (or week, whatever)/what if you could only loot it once? But if you took it down, you were guaranteed to get something nice? Suddenly there's a reason for lower lvl folks to band together and do stuff. Currently you're better off grinding gold in a trivial zone and buying the artifact you want than spending hour upon hour in often-fruitless boss-farming. Fine if you're able to steamroll it, but otherwise, not so much. The gap isn't the problem here, its 'high end content' mechanics being designed in such a way that the best money/loot/xp always seems to be achievable solo. Fixing the group system to make it more appealing instead of just an experience/loot penalty as it currently is, would address the issue.

 

TBH this is way too long to read but I did read the first couple of lines. Just pay someone to grind for your. Problem solved.

 

meh

step over my principles ?

 

Oh I know it isn't a race... except it was kind of built from the ground up to be one, with a special event on launch. That is the only reason we have persistence, unless you have another logical explanation on why to open persistence during alpha.

It is a rich man's game if I must pay to catch up with players who are legendary because they paid time or money, both are irritating to the roleplayer who needs his legendary inspirations to have done something *meaningful* to reach that state.

I know that I don't need to be a vegan to enjoy a vegan restaurant don't worry for my mental health...

My goal in a MMORPG isn't even to "do the content" in fact I don't even have this expectation. In fact to me the reason these games exist is 100% for the player economy, 100% for the community, 100% for the PvP that works within roleplaying rules.

Maybe you misread me... I don't mind the gap, I don't mind when it makes sense and the top tier isn't batman with spiderman powers.

This paragraph makes me wonder if you just skipped over my posts, I always had the same opinion of UO post Origin. I have described in this very thread how they turned it into an item based game and how that ruined it.

Your experience is kind of sad, you really came in at the wrong time when it was more of a WoW clone than a ultima.

All along the epochs, I would have never traded my mage for a tamer however... sounds like the elites you asked questions to about your build weren't very straightforward... anyways.

The cruelty of the game in its penalties have nothing to do with the cap system. 15% stat loss for murderers, full loot... thats MUCH more unforgiving that in SOTA.

But in UO people banded up together, created a dynamic community that made it easy to get some equipment back and get going with little downtime. That part of the game, making friends, was much more important than levels and gaps and penalties, it all felt like a breeze to me.

But sure, its sad you missed the Origin era because you agree with alot of its premises (I read pretty much all your posts because they are very well written).

There you contradict yourself a bit, you say the journey is what matters, but you were looking to close an illusory gap that is materialism based (the uber gear). That never happened to me in UO, granted I have never sold my passion of this game for money, I even let my uber rares and gear decay on the ground while I guarded them.

Nobody cares about that gap to be honest... cause in the true UO, the true game, your UBER artifact gear gave you about a 10% boost over a player with GM gear... it was negligible but just enough of a boost to make it an interesting risk to carry it around.

Don't you see the difference in concept ? Now here in SOTA if I have 10-20 adventurer level over someone else, then the gap is bigger and you haven't even begun to calculate uber gear that is pretty much insured, so there is no risk in carrying it around if you have money to pay the oracle

It kind of puzzles me that you come to this conclusion, that the gap is bigger.

The ship still sails... every day I'm still given the choice to play an UO freeshard or something like legends of Aria, or SOTA.

Rewarding or pointless, thats a question of opinion, its subjective. People have complained that the wisp carry no loot, its pointless to hunt them ! But they're magical creatures supposed to be pretty much unbeatable and are known throughout the lore to never ever deal with money or material things, they are knowledge traders.

See the disconnect between what people think makes a dragon worthy ? His big treasure dosen't even exist anymore... what people are killing isn't a RPG dragon, its a mutant crocodile that has no loot because its low IQ and has limited almost innate like magic ?

Thats a drake at best... so finally in the end of this quote you make a fair point about "boss monsters" because lets face it, its not a RPG if you can kill the dragon every day, it becomes content to burn through and kind of makes a circus of our nostalgia for a spiritual sucessor to the ultimas.

Totally agree that it should be group content, and fit with the lore of the nostalgia we used to create the popularity of this game.

I would just like for you to see how far and distant we are from the ultimas/UO as it was conceived by Origin.

Because when I say I lived what I am, its because I lived the original Lord British vision, and because I still love it and the ship still sails.

Thats the "version" I admire, thats the reason I'm here, thats the reason I invested so much cash I didn't really have to spare.

Even if SOTA turns out to be a WoW/Medieval sims hybrid, my money still is a tip for creating UO in my mind.

Never I have expected anything in return, however noone should expect that I stand here and watch as the evils of materialism and anti-virtue for the sole purpose of achievement seep through the cracks of our safety net.

I was asked to speak my mind by the king, and now it looks like I'm not only ambassador to the xorinite, I'm the ambassador for the RPG purists RPvP lovers of old school UO/Ultima.

So be it, que sera sera.

 

Everything you say... It's like it is coming from my own brain.

 

Our guild takes 3 parties of 8 out to s. grunvald to kill the dragon there and then break off into friends online. Sometimes we die but we find a way to kill it by balancing out the parties, and I think most of us are AL90 or lower. To me, I feel the dragons power is fine, and we always have a great time there.

 

If anything Dragons are too easy.

 

I miss Drocis. I didn't always agree with him, but I always enjoyed the logical and intelligent way he presented his arguments.

 

Have some respect for the Baron. He's a pillar of this community and a large reason why things are the way things are. He's entirely correct with his points.

 

I dont disagree with this.

 

BDF hasn't been here since he made that post in February.

 

Yep, I am pretty sure he sold his account and POT - Rat's Nest.

 

Preventing that high level bosses can be solod without making them impossible for lower level groups is actual pretty easy.

Give dragons an high parry, it works only for attacks from the front, right?.

So you need an tank and at least one more doing damage from behind.

Adjust AC if more than one "main damage dealer " has to be present.

Play with damage output/ac/parry and block of the critter, allowing an lvl 90 tank to survive but not solo it.

While it would be fun for me to solo the biggest critters in game, I am still the opinion dragons should be awesome and only do able with a group of 6 or more and then still an high risk.

But it CAN be set up in an way that not only allows a small handfull of tanks on the server to tank it without making it an solo mob.

Alternative have swarms of trashmobs coming in waves, another proven way to make solo impossible without overhelming the tank.

For my feel Sota tends to put the sledge hammer to game mechanics where fine tuning stuff would be asked for.

 

And we all lost out because of it. If anyone knows a way to contact him please let him know we as a community could really use him right now. He was a rock.

 

It's getting easyer for different builds to kill (and solo) the dragon. I think this is a good thing! NO it's not for elitists only.. it used to be only for a few type of builds. Now you can pure fire it, pure death, polearms, swords, bludge, archer etc. etc.

it feels like this time they did not nerf stuff all to much, they brought more options to the table for other players /builds to kill it. Love it!

the fact that 'only a few players' (more then one would think) are killing the dragon solo is mainly because those players took the time to learn, die and adept, got better and now can kill the dragon. I find it awesome that way more schools can now do it. as long as you take the time to work out how 'you' can do it, you can do it.

Mostly players avoiding death at all times complain about people being able to solo 'harder' content. (you can do monkeys? complain, you can do tears? complain, you can do torc? complain, you can do dragons? complain)

more variety of builds solo'ing bosses please

 

I really would like to see new big bosses which a group of players is a requirement to kill them.

About make current ones harder, that's only aceptable if they improve the loot tables. Increasing the respawn time (to avoid farming bosses every 10min) and harder bosses needs a better loot, this is a basic design concept everyone must understand.

 

The problem as i see it is that reaching the ceiling takes an insane ammount of hours, hours the average, not the casual, the average player does not have.

In that regard level 90 is already top tier (I got there because we had an very hard winter so i did nothing but grind the whole winter)

Someone with an regular job and familly?

Never, level 60 is i think more like "normal"

And that is what content should aim at, with a few zones catering to the higher levels, because the money, like it or not, comes from theese around level 60, or 70, or whatever, not from the exeptions.

To have fun at the journey you need the game to cater to the levels that ar in reach of normal player who spend 10 hours per week in average playing.

Think about two to three years for level 60-70, that should be about "normal"

For everything above you need right now time only few can invest.

Grinding should be an valid choice of how to play the game, I do not consider myself very grindy but nothing is sweeter than that one % more in X, to me, but grinding should not be the ONLY viable way to play.

Right now though i do not find much beside making more exp to do, to an point where i limit my playtime or risk becoming tired of Sota.

The social aspect is very hard to get to, the times i play most online are grinding or afk, if online, the quest systhem is in development, my favorite past time is aimless wandering but for that places are to small and then there is the Overworld map in between.

Right now by design no aimless wandering.

I explored most of Sota by now.

So what else? Housing, needs either long time playing Sota or sinking lots of cash into items, mostly booth though and does not really has an impact on how i play, i tend to plonk down things and then i am done (there is not an social aspect due to lack of players around to DO something with the house, given i am not in central Brit or so.

Crafting is even more grindy than adventouring with mining (and boy do i hate mining) for mastercraft an must, and carpentry (my fav) is without mastercraft not that interesting.

So to wrap it up, most content of Sota is not at an stage that makes it for me more fun than grinding out a few more skillpoints, and for what i see i am already in the realm between average and "GET A LIFE DAMMIT" with my silly little 90 adv lvl (given i am rather specialised theese 90 levels did take some time and investment.)

I know, Sota is not growing fast due to funding, but it is imho part an problem of design choices that makes it less than it needs to be to encourage an non grindy playstyle.

There are always people who max out every skill avbaiable to them, no question, and that is ok, as long the design team does not worry overmuch about them buit aims at making it fun for the "sane levels"

 

I was thinking about the strange idea of giving dragons crits that flatten tanks with adv lvl 110.

(as an way to make them less "soloable")

So, yes, that makes them kinda not soloable, but a group would still need an top tier tank to do them...in so far an strange idea.

about farming, as long bone armor needs neckbones and that is very rare loot, offcourse people will farm dragons until the doctor comes.

I would say make them balanced and hard to do for a group but raise neckbone loot for example, (and by that i mean not in an way that makes it mandatory to group with tanks <110

Then you often have two ancient dragons spawns, barring them for lvl 70 groups (in my eyes the true "normal player high end")

Reducing spawn rate.. i do not know, in EQ that meant guilds getting really prissy if you slay the dragon they had consent with the american guild to be "theirs" or standing up at 4am to play to get the dragon... not really an thing.

 

Or... we could implement a paper/rock/scissor effect with the current mobs. We already have a few new dragon types, could add more, but instead of simply being more powerful (more hitpoints, higher attributes, damage, etc), they would all have something that they are weak against (or weak against certain tactics/skills) and something they strong against (each dragon or mob type would be different from the other). That way, you may do well against one dragon but completely fail against another due to it's strengths/weaknesses. That way different builds could tackle dragons they work better against and that no one build can take on every dragon (or boss type) solo. Would give other builds a chance to shine.

Example dragon mobs: Could do one for each magic tree type (color as well if wanted) with similar strengths & weaknesses to the skill trees but also add in additional pros/cons vs other skill trees (vs bludgeon/archery/bleeds, etc etc.)

Now couple that with various tiers of the same dragon type (one that is resistant to slashing/piercing/blades for example) would perhaps have a young adult variant (for lower level players), adult, elder, ancient, etc so there would be some truly powerful variants that would take more than one player to take down. Players could still solo the lower tiered dragons (bosses) if they were strong enough, but most likely NOT the upper end tiers of the mob, which would probably take a group to a raid, depending.

 

This is exactly how I feel. I just want a lot of variety in the dragons. Not 5 different colored ones that are all roughly the same difficulty. We should definitely have drakes that level 70's can take on without dying too many times. Maybe some dragons should be impossible for even Mac to solo, but the current dragons (not ancient or clockwork) SHOULD be soloable by people that have spent literally thousands of hours in the game. There should just be more OF them (and I LOVE the idea of some dragons being susceptible to different things, and stronger against others).

An ice dragon that takes almost no damage from Water tree, but really suffers when a fire mage shows up...
A death dragon that is actually a big skeleton, that takes massive damage from banish undead, but death mages have trouble with them.
Magma spewing fire dragons that get rocked by high-level ice arrows, etc.

Things like this are what makes games great.