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Undead standing back up multiple times is pointlessly annoying

Discussion in 'Release 21 Feedback' started by Burzmali, Aug 30, 2015.

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  1. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    I understand that the undead need to be more dangerous, so they get to reanimate, but it is currently more boring than anything. Just give them more HP and let certain types of spells do more damage to replicate the current system. If you really have your hearts set on reanimating, maybe require that a Necromancer-type enemy be in the area, so that the player can target that enemy first to prevent reanimations.
     
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  2. Damian Killingsworth

    Damian Killingsworth Avatar

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    there are skills and magic that will drop them for good the first time. It would be boring if all humanoids were the same enemy with a different look. I would say you should fight other beings until you have those skills.

    but yes agreed, they are very annoying.
     
  3. Sir Osis O`Liver

    Sir Osis O`Liver Avatar

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    Nothing is more annoying in this release than chasing skeleton mages/arches around the map aggroing others, missing 50+% of the time and being slowly killed by other enemies missile weapons/fireballs (which STILL go though solid rock/walls) again and again.
     
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  4. Abhann

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    lol...agree, though my most annoying was chasing an archer skeleton around, finally axing him to near death, then moving that extra inch so he ran away home and healed :(

    one of those times to remind myself that everything is still a work in progress :)
     
  5. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    Reanimating doesn't make them different, it just gives them more health with a break in the middle. Making skeletons weak to blunt weapons and holy spells, resistant to slashing and immune to piercing would actually make them unique. Defeating them isn't any harder, thanks to the wonders of healing spells, but it just takes much longer than seems necessary. In the amount of time it takes to put down a Benny in this release, I could take down a miniboss and company in a game with more modern sensibilities.
     
  6. Kendaric

    Kendaric Avatar

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    I´d go for the following resistances:

    Skeletons: Weakness to crushing, sun and life damage
    Zombies: Weakness to slashing, fire and life damage

    All undead: Immune to poison and bleed.
     
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  7. Cryodacry

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    Pro tip - Kill skeletons using stun. If they are "stunned" while dead they die for realz the first time =)... Honestly Skeletons are in a good place with reanimate.
     
  8. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    I hope that's not true of all Skeletons, I took down the Elite Skeleton Mage in the Tower, jerk rezzed 4 times even while I was dropping him with magic. If hip checking him would have put him down in one, that'd be aggravating, and likely to disappear in a few patches.
     
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  9. Cryodacry

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    no no no use lighting spells .... Chain lighting and lighting .... I learned this last release with regards to my lighting archer. Mace builds are also extremely effective at getting them down the first time also. It's not about the "hip check" It's about timing and using your abilities .... You can specialize against your foe if you please. And this is very much true .... I very much enjoy the mechanic too.

    Edit: Also Lighting spells stun All the time now with the new Effectiveness stats.
     
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  10. Ship One

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    I think that AI tactic is pretty smart. Makes it necessary for some CC or stun.
     
  11. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    Being able to phase through your opponent doesn't hurt either.
     
  12. Damian Killingsworth

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    The differences I notice is in the strategy of fighting groups. Those resistance/weaknesses you point out do exist in elementary for at this stage as well. According to lore, the undead should be more difficult to defeat. At this point the job is making it more difficult without making it more annoying. We are getting there.
     
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  13. Sir Osis O`Liver

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    To stun an opponent, you need to land a hit on them. Hard to do when you're constantly chasing them around and then trying to make sure the camera is pointed in the right direction... which was my point.
     
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  14. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Back to the original topic......
    I would very much appreciate your sharing of the skills and magic that drops them for good with us...

    Meanwhile, the most annoying thing for me is that (prior to R21) we only gained XP's on 1 of those multiple deaths, which had the effect of my avoiding them whenever possible due solely to the annoyance factor (and they typically drop squat anyway)...
    Now, since we're tracking skill and "relevant" skill gain - I'm guessin' that we'll at least gain every time we hit 'em with something...
    We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
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  15. Damian Killingsworth

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    Banish Undead
     
  16. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    When I am fighting 3 skeletons, if I can drop one it reduces the damage I am taking.
    If I drop a second one before the first gets up, I still have only two doing damage to me.
    Then I can drop the first one again before number two gets up.

    I don't know if I explained that clearly, but I'll take a temporary knock down over giving them more health.
     
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  17. Cryodacry

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    Also a highly overlooked skill banish undead.... if you land the killing blow with Banish it drops them in the first shot also ...
     
  18. redfish

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    Should be the two combined imo. Skelles should have a health stat like max durability that goes down when you attack them with blunt weapons or certain spells, which prevents them from re-animating or with as much health.

    Like Sir Frank says, the behavior changes how you fight them. Also we're gaining skills fighting them now even if we don't defeat them.

    Though I see no reason that they shouldn't be attackable when they're a bone pile on the ground, attacking them would just cause the bones to rattle and wake them up. An alterative would be looting them when they're in a bone pile though I guess there would be issues with them being weaponless from the devs perspective.
     
  19. AviarAmidar

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    I think it's better now since we are on the skill based system we are getting XP and leveling up skills during the whole fight and not just getting a lump sum XP for killing them at the end of the fight whether they were taken down one time or three times.

    I'm perfectly fine with how they are now and needing to use some sort of "magic" to keep them down the first time if I want to.
     
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