Universal Vendor Search without prices

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Echondas, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    I thought of this also :)
     
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  2. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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  3. Wilfred

    Wilfred Avatar

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    A global search would make it too easy, thus taking all the fun out of the process, and making it boring.
     
  4. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Actually it is, in Chris's "all players economy that isn't crafted goods are competition to me" mindset.

    That's why he spent 8 months building systems (using our money) to screw us over. Heritage, no trade.

    That's why he spent 8 months building systems (using our money) to eliminate collectability of items from the game.

    That's why he won't make the vendor UI usable at scale.

    And that's why if he DOES make a global search, you can bet it will be garbage, because it will enable us to trade COTO shop items more easily and that, as he has said, is direct competition to him.

    Now, a smart business person would have been fixing things, instead of screwing us, all along.

    The root of the vendor problem is a garbage user interface. It is a prototype interface from when, 2015? 2014? When could we first list? Very few of us have the patience to run a store forever when the UI is so bad. (Same with crafting, btw.)

    I provided them with a solid design with a dozen tiny fixes that would make all of our lives easier. Have ANY been implemented?

    You are dreaming if you think you'll get a good world trade system, with our without prices. You're the competition, he doesn't like traders, they cut into his cash flow in his crazy, cannibalistic idea of how to run a business.
     
  5. Wilfred

    Wilfred Avatar

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    In game vendors act as a sales conduit between between players with more time than money, and Crown Shop sales.

    A player can purchase whatever items are selling well on the Crown Shop, list them for sale on their vendor, and sell them to other players.

    This way everyone benefits:
    - The seller makes a profit.
    - The buyer gets an item that they would otherwise not have been able to afford.
    - And the developers make a sale that would not have happened without the in game seller acting as middleman.

    Thus, facilitating increased in game transactions between players will drive increased Crown Shop sales.

    One of the most effective ways for the developers to increase game revenue is to get the in game economy running smoothly.

    I invite the developers to check me on this. Talk to any economist at your local university:

    The University of Texas at Austin
    Department of Economics
    https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/economics/

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  6. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    While I agree with you, I also do not agree with you :D and here's why...

    Chris doesn't sell "Pay to Win" items. He doesn't sell swords or shields that a worth a $, but what he does sell is "skins" :) really nice looking skins too, even better than "The Sims" :p

    Chris does sell houses and heritage items, but unless something like that is made "by a player through crafting", then those old reward items and previous purchases through the Add-On Store should not be included in ANY global crafting search engine, "because they were not crafted" ;)!'

    Such a search engine's mission should be to promote crafting and our crafting economy, and not for selling what we purchased "with the intent of early SOTA game backing". There were allot of speculators buying up early backer pledges and their items. I myself still have many sets of tools, sets of armor and other items just sitting in my bank account, "but they don't belong on a vendor as a crafted item".

    Just my thoughts on the subject, "Crafted items only!" :D~TL~






     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  7. Wilfred

    Wilfred Avatar

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    Of course, the system only works if items on the Crown Shop are actually in demand.
    So a steady release of new deco and skins is still required.
    But this is already the case, a smooth running game economy would just facilitate additional sales.

    The easiest revenue generators to add to the Crown Shop are microtransaction consumables, like the Obsidian Potions.
    Because consumables only have to be added to the Crown Shop once, and never require updates.

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  8. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    I do agree @Wilfred ... and also to regional shopping markets:

    I think if there were a specific building where a marketing NPC could act as the conduit for such a mechanic would be a very nice way of packaging such a thing, as long as the item or sale could be given a city name on it and (similar to our house finding mechanics) a marker placed on our compass, then the traveling part could also be satisfied.

    What I'm getting at is, "what should something like this we're talking about look like within our game. I'd just hate it if it were just some "added to the chat box thing" :( I would like to see it be a bit RP real.

    I don't want to see any non-crafted items on it other than gathered things. We already have an "outside game" economy and marketers for selling non-crafted or non-gathered items. If a player wants to sell their account or the stuff in their account that were not crafted, they should go through one of those outside agents. I don't want their sales clogging up our ingame economy sales engine mechanics. That's a real life business or sideline business for many of those outside agents. Liquidating their stock is not something I want my development dollar going towards.

    "Scalpers should never be invited into the ballpark to sell their items" ;) They have their markets established outside the game and they need to remain outside of our game.
     
  9. Vladamir Begemot

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    Good luck to both of you on explaining anything to do with economics and not canibalizing your customer base to the guy who spent 8 months figuring out how to build complex systems to screw us over.
     
  10. Barugon

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    Yes, status quo is at the heart of all arguments against a global search.
     
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  11. Vladamir Begemot

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    I'm not arguing for or against, I'm scoffing at the idea that it will happen at all. As I look over the entire game, the only part of the interface that has gotten attention in the last 4 years is the crown shop.

    And there isn't a single person that can look me in the eye and with a straight face tell me the rest of the UI is at an acceptable level.

    So good luck getting an entire NEW system, one that eases in game shopping pains, past the guy who sees in game shopping at anything but the crown store as competition for his own paycheck.

    If he wanted any of that he'd have fixed the listing UI years ago when the requests were coming in by the dozen every week.
     
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  12. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Yeah, I'm also pretty sure that it will never happen.
     
  13. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    Yep, Yep and Yep... I don't think it will be done, but day dreaming is enough to ponder what could be and possibly paint it into something more developer alluring.
    That really depends on how many copywrite infringements or user fees are acceptable. It's a small budget game that just looks expensive, yet has features and options no other game has... "ever". Such features come with parameters which constrain our game from greatly appealing to any single special interest group.
    I hate the chat box, so what? It functions and we don't have to pay any more for it o_O
    What's wrong with paychecks? There's no above craftable weapons or armor being sold through the COTO Shop.
    Our game is lucky to have Chris, as he's a top notch gaming programmer.

    Many game reviews had our game as likely to financially fail, yet our game didn't, while many other did. Try Legends of Ellaria :p some player funded games didn't do so well, so I don't see our development team making money as a game killer for me :) I think they've done quite well! But, they still don't sell a sword or armor that performs better than something ingame crafted by Elrond, so I don't think the coto shop and crafters are competing.

    So I'll say it again...
    Yep, Yep and Yep...
    I don't think it will be done, but day dreaming is enough to ponder what could be and possibly paint it into something more developer alluring which might get done ;)~TL~

    [​IMG]

     
  14. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    @Wilfred "Taking all the fun out of the process" --- Fun for WHO ?
    Global Search would take all the wasted time out of the process...
     
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  15. Wilfred

    Wilfred Avatar

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    Players like myself, who enjoy economic gameplay, and want to spend their play time buying, selling, and trading.

    On his blog, Raph Koster pointed out that it is possible to make the system too easy:

    Do auction houses suck?
    https://www.raphkoster.com/2012/03/20/do-auction-houses-suck/

    As I said earlier in this thread:
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    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  16. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    @Wilfred
    And a Global Vendor Search would give you EXACTLY THAT !
    Buy low, sell high.... Imagine having access to everyone who has items on a vendor. You'd be buying/selling/trading WAY more than you do now !
    I suspect that what you really don't want, is competition. You want all the selling to take place in 3 or 4 towns like it is now, which is exactly why we have no REAL economy here.
    Prove me wrong.
     
  17. Barugon

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  18. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    From all the comments in the thread, it does appear to me that no matter what's done or not done about it, our developers will wind up with their heads in the stocks with plenty of rotten tomatoes on hand awaiting their faces :( Maybe such a system would just serve to show how much gold, resource and crafted materials still need a sump to drain them, exposing all the further flaws our economy has.

    The word economic "quagmire" comes to mind o_O~TL~
     
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  19. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    As is most always the case.

    In this case, in this game - there will be many more tomatoes in the hands of the common player, then in the hands of the few who wish to keep it all to themselves.

    Think about that.... Catnip
     
  20. Wilfred

    Wilfred Avatar

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    A Global Vendor Search with prices would create what Raph Koster calls "a perfect information economy".
    Every player would have easy access to ALL the same data.
    It would completely remove the option for players to go hunt for good deals.

    With a Regional Vendor Search with prices, players who put in the effort to travel between the regions would be able to find and take advantage of pricing discrepancies between regions.
    The fun is in running around between the regions to compare prices, and hunting for the best deals.

    A global search with prices would completely destroy the fun of the hunt.
    Every player would be able to access all the same data with no effort.
    So for players like me who like shopping around for good deals, it would be really boring.

    Amazon was able to consolidate real world sales volume in one online storefront due to the internet.
    Likewise, a Global Vendor Search with prices would consolidate most in game sales to a few sellers in large market towns who could offer low prices, high volume, and one-stop-shopping.

    The more efficient and easy-to-use the system is, the more market consolidation will occur:

    - Town Based Vendor Search with prices would create the least market consolidation.
    - Regional Vendor Search with prices would create more market consolidation than Town Based, but less than Global Vendor Search.
    - Global Vendor Search with prices would create the most market consolidation; more than Regional Vendor Search, and much more than Town Based Vendor Search.

    So the question is:
    How efficient and easy-to-use do you want the system to be?

    Versus:
    How much market consolidation are you willing to accept?

    - With Town Based Vendor Search with prices, there would not be much market consolidation, but ease of use would be rather low since players would have to search each town individually.

    - With Regional Vendor Search with prices, markets would tend to consolidate within regions, but sellers in different regions would still be able to create regional specialties and compete on regional location rather than solely on price.
    Ease of use would be much better that Town Based Search, since players would easily be able to search the entire region.

    - With Global Vendor Search with prices, there would be extreme market consolidation with most sales going to high volume low price sellers in a few big market towns.
    But the system would be very easy to use, since players could easily search all vendors in the game to find exactly what they want.

    I think Regional Vendor Search with prices provides the best balance:
    - Much easier to use than a Town Based Search with prices,
    - And less market consolidation than a Global Search with prices.

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    Nov. 20, 2020 - Edited to clarify that I am talking about searches with prices.
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    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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