Universal vendor with price

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by simon1974, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    10,236
    Likes Received:
    24,741
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    One thing to note is not all towns are or want to be a vendor town. So if we only implement town crier searches it's not serving all players in their ability to let the game world know they exist and are offering goods for sale. Searches should not be limited to a town. All selling an item should be included. A lot of good things for the game regarding vendors should be implemented. These things should be interesting, useful, and for everyone.
     
    FrostII, Anpu and Time Lord like this.
  2. Sorgin Txakal

    Sorgin Txakal Avatar

    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    917
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The fear I have, and that many others share, is that a global vendor search will turn all merchant cities into ghost towns. If a governor doesn't want their city to be a merchant city, that is perfectly fine and reasonable, but players are given two lots for free, and if someone wants to sell their items to a broad array of people, they should be dropping one of those lots in a merchant city - my suggestion would also mean that you aren't punished for being late to the game or having house that isn't in the core crowding of row houses by the main entrance of the city.

    Centralizing the games entire economy into a single interface will completely destroy any need for merchant cities to exist, and I believe will remove 90% of all immersive and realistic aspects of the game's economy (which have been slowly chipped away at for years already).

    The pass system is gone, banks and remote banks transcend time and space and contain the controlled power of collapsing stars, NPC merchants can generate infinite inventory out of nothingness. I mean, is there really that huge a desire by the community to systematically kill off every facet of realism and immersion in this game?
     
    necronut likes this.
  3. necronut

    necronut Avatar

    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    872
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Global vendor search existed in SWG.

    SWG had diverse local economies.

    Bazaar Terminals allowed you to search "Entire Galaxy," "This Region," and "This Planet."

    You searched by item, and any stat, level, and even ranges of anything you wanted. Ex. "Sword" "level 1-50" "strength bonus 10-26"

    The terminal would kick out all possible result, all possible vendors, and all possible prices.

    If they were listed on the terminal for sale, you could pick up at the terminal closest to the vendor's physical location.

    But more desirable was being able to waypoint directly to the vendor that listed your desired product in your desired price range with your desired stats... and visit their entire inventory.

    The economy was fine.

    The world didn't end.

    The only people that suffered were those that were more interested in their own pockets than helping people have fun playing a video game with a fair, balance, open, and competitive economy. And no one should ever listen to those people. They are always what holds back desperately needed advancement.

    I fear change too... but you have a choice.

    More of the same
    vs.
    Ideas that have been proven in ALL but a slight few MMO games to work just fine and not cause armageddon.


    In rank of economic strength on most SWG servers: Tatooine > Corellia > Naboo > and it goes down from there.

    The economies even further broke down into the microcosm of towns that weren't marked on the map, you found those ONLY by traveling manually, or via searching for items and prices on the Bazaar Terminals.

    Resources, equipment, tools, craftables, ship components, ships, homes, all sold for a wide range of prices, steadily, daily, monthly, yearly, and people made a LOT of money playing it. And there was open, free information with freely available pricing.

    Reminder to everyone paying attention: THERE ARE ONLY A FEW PEOPLE AGAINST US HAVING INFORMATION THAT SHOULD BE FREE AND NOT HAVING TO MARCH ACROSS THE LOADING SCREEN SIMULATOR TO BUY ANYTHING.
     
    Anpu and FrostII like this.
  4. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

    Messages:
    4,702
    Likes Received:
    12,027
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Broken Ground
    Good point. But you know how you can mark a lot as private so the name does not show up in the town cryer? Doing that for vendor's on a lot might be a good option for all lots, so the choice can be made on the lot level. Of course, the vendor level is best I think.
     
  5. Vesper

    Vesper Avatar

    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    528
    Trophy Points:
    18
    They're going to do, what they're going. Regardless of the hundreds of pages of crazy outlandish forum threads. The vast majority seem to want global vendor search with prices, it's likely going to be global vendor searches.
     
    necronut, FrostII and Time Lord like this.
  6. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

    Messages:
    4,702
    Likes Received:
    12,027
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Broken Ground
    It is against game policy to even discuss $. But I do agree with your basic point about having options. I would actually like the option of picking the sale price in terms of any item in the game. For example, I will sell this barrel for 20 wood, 10 iron ore and 20gp. I know that it too much to ask but, if they did it, it would open up more gameplay options, like battering for crafted goods with material, instead of yielding to ridiculous prices, or even user made quests and scavenger hunts.
     
  7. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    8,266
    Likes Received:
    28,343
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    Indeed since the beginning of Time I have seen this to be very true! :D

    I think it's the speculation of impact in such things that builds the "forums" player opinion drama.

    In my speculation of outcome, there are things that will ponder through the Catnip/Port minds which will not wish to make large waves. SOTA is surviving, yet if a large bite of pissed players who invested quite a large chunk of their playtime to create our Crafter and Market towns, along with their populations are suddenly drastically impacted, it wouldn't be good for our game. "And I do think they would/will be pissed".

    Vender Search, in whatever form is what I do believe possibly see a change if any change is to come.

    @Tahru 's suggestion in town foot traffic for our leaderboards would have been a step in the right direction, which Catnip considered, or addressed in a live stream. While this may not seem connected, it does reflect our developers mindset:

    Between 39:30 - 40:50 is that answer, which was not more game programing, yet invited the notion through another direction.


    So even this was considered with caution, which I believe sets the tone in speculating what if anything will happen.

    Current Player Shopping Demands:
    I see us (the players) demanding 7-11 or drive through shopping exercising no patients what so ever to get at what we want, other than the patients it takes to sift through a plethora of uncategorized garbage bags, though many vendors do try their best to make things more easily convenient. "I always shop first those vendors that have their things in sections" :) Those get my business first ill regardless of price! If I think it's too much, I then condemn myself to the endless shopper's hell sifting through everyone's garbage bags :(

    Breaking My Personal Tradition to Test:
    I have a few buy orders out right now, placed with some extremely good shopper/marketers to hunt for a few special items when/if they ever come across them, and to those very special people I will pay around 20% over their costs before they acquire the items. They may eventually find what I'm looking for and I never place WTB orders to more than one item at a time per market hunter, but I will break with my normal shopping traditions and place a WTB here in our forums to see what comes from our well-extremely under-used "Player Marketplace".

    I will place an armor buy order in our forums Player Marketplace and bring the results back here as evidence, since this is a sort of court hearing of forum's nobles.
    (But I will further rant on in this direction, as it is much easier to modify a forum program than to modify a game's programing).

    Future Possibilities in Our Forums Player Marketplace;

    Current Situation:
    The player participation levels in our forums is a happy group :) in a dismal amount of us :( There's only a hand full or two hands full of players posting here. Count them up, there's just not that many, with more looking on to add to that amount in participation or total forums usage.

    If such things as what is being discussed here could be presented or made available to players, here in our forums, then we could see a more robust amount of players participating in our forums. Sure everything we are discussing here could be in-game, but if it's cheaper to program these things into our forum's Player Marketplace, then our game wins through collective excitement which is always a thing whenever crowds are condensed (as the intent @Tahru's suggestion thread motioned above on livestream clearly pointed out).

    Again, well stated as the norm...
    Catnip/Portalarium has had a long tradition of outsourcing many player desires to player websites, which is what I believe will happen in this case. I believe we are receiving lip-service on this issue right now which will continue until our lips stop flapping, or they happen to find a way to "as cheaply/cost efficient as possible" to make only a "slight change" with as little negative feedback as possible. Sure they're looking into it and at it, but head scratching is where this will end, unless it's cheap, fills the demand and doesn't rock the boat too much.

    I'll be placing that WTB Order in our Player Marketplace in a short while (as real world husbandly duty doth currently call :D).

    This is all about expedience, patience and wondering why a simple forums post of what one wants couldn't accomplish the same if we just began using it.

    Catnip/Portalarium always looks at things through a corporate eye before ever allowing their player eye to dictate what happens because they are in it to remain in business, without game enhancements which could threaten our game.
    ~Time Lord~
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
    Tahru likes this.
  8. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,765
    Likes Received:
    10,893
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    This is much worry over NOTHING . If your merchants can COMPETE then your town will be buzzing with traffic 24/7. And that's a FACT.

    I understand your frustration with what was suggested in the "beginning", well over 6 yrs now, but with the advent of travel scrolls and the addition of over 300 towns - a "regional" economy is and was quite unrealistic. Nobody ( ok, almost nobody) here in this thread or in universal chat, is willing or able to take the time to travel to 300 loading screens to find a better deal than what we're expected to pay for in the current small (by number) monopolies of our "merchant cities".

    Your concept of "realism and immersion" is righteous by all rights, but the vast majority of both old and new players are more interested in advancing their characters - than they are about hanging out with the owner of a merchant (who may or may not be there when they visit) when they shop. What most old and new players want to do is spend most of their time advancing their characters out in these big and beautiful lands that the devs have bestowed on us, and a minimum time shopping - and are certainly not much happy with the quite often exorbitant prices so typical of our very few "merchant cities" with little competition other than a handful of other "merchant cities" who also offer prices typical with a LACK OF COMPETITION.

    If you are a "merchant" than get out there and COMPETE in a global marketplace. You already have the ability to harvest and/or create any desired item in the game, the fact that you have merchants attests to that !

    The vast majority of players in our game today really, REALLY want to have an actual competitive economy - where they can quickly go and get what they need at any given time, and proceed to spend the rest of whatever time they have to dedicate to gameplay - advancing their character(s).
     
  9. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,765
    Likes Received:
    10,893
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Well, there are a RELATIVELY FEW players that have dedicated their Sota "life" to creating their version of "merchant towns", but ONCE AGAIN they have NOTHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT OTHER THAN SIMPLY COMPETING WITH OTHERS - and if they're "dedicated merchants" then THEY WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM COMPETING !

    It's that simple. Compete for sales or don't.

    But don't deny others the ability to compete with their own personal vendor out there somewhere in podunk - and for everyone to have the ability to search, find and purchase what they need with the least amount of wasted time. For people who can only play a few hrs a week (oh, and that's the typical majority), they do NOT want to spend a large % of their time watching loading screens and running around hoping to find what they're looking for at any given time.

    The future of Sota, IMO, requires a market that ALL can participate in - PERIOD.
    And - with over 300 towns - that would have to be in the form of a Global Vendor Search with Prices.....
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
    Tahru and necronut like this.
  10. oplek

    oplek Avatar

    Messages:
    1,226
    Likes Received:
    2,991
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I can respect people not wanting to Amazon-ize the near-nonexistent SOTA economy, just like I can for those who enjoy survival games, where dealing with the logistics of hunger/thirst/sleep mechanics is a very in-the-moment experience of the gameplay. But, it also has an implicit ... "and therefore this will be niche gameplay".

    To me, the amozonification momentum was locked in when they added teleport-to-zone scrolls and took down the gates between regions. Anything else now, would be incongruent.

    But let's be honest... IF they actually do anything on this topic, does anyone expect it to be done well? We're more likely to get a minimally functioning product with a host if issues, with no long-term vision or plan. Maybe 17 months later, we'd get a second pass where some of the surface-level issues are dealt with. I'm still waiting for them to finish player dungeons and Lua integration. It took them months to add jumping to horses... which probably came with the asset pack they bought.

    Meanwhile, they're working on the 3174th iteration of combat balance.

    So the discussions here may be moot.
     
  11. CICI

    CICI Avatar

    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    821
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Wilfred, FrostII and Time Lord like this.
  12. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    8,266
    Likes Received:
    28,343
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    WTB Post:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...s/wtb-light-armor-supertanky-full-set.168993/

    I do understand what you're saying and I agree, yet Catnip/Portalaium will be looking at this through a corporate eye, which means either we get Consideration Kudos, Lip-Service or forever stuck on a priority list with many things constantly being placed ahead of it.

    Thus far when it's been mentioned in live stream, it hasn't been reflected back from Catnip as, "Wow that's such a great idea we'll get right on that because it will bring us in new players".
    Only things that have reached that level of developer excitement have ever been immediately implemented in our game.

    I count this player generated idea as "still in mental development", where the want and need is very real, yet the best solution has yet to be found.

    Our market towns have served us well and that's nothing to go toying around with in pure forms noble congress styled speculation where the few try doing their best thinking we represent the many. Our forums opinions are like poles taken during real world elections, which can be very wrong due to having such a small voter sample size.

    I like the idea, I love everything about free trade, but such a change is a big wave to gamble on what's on the other side. All games are not equal and what worked for one, may not fit into what our game has evolved into, which is counted on by very large towns of market minded players.

    I've mentioned this before, but it's worth pointing out again, @Tahru gives out free beer, other larger market towns have large bill boards with their current estimations in COTO-Gold exchange rates as well as billboards for areas to shop in for specific items, while still other market towns host lotteries and giveaways. All that and more could end with our great idea here. I still think there's even more that could be made of, in and all about that, meaning that market foot traffic attraction has yet to see it's zenith. What we're proposing here is an "End All, Be All" which would totally end that side in attraction play, the free beer from @Tahru then loses much of it's luster and all those well maintained bill boards lose much of, not only their attraction, but their benefit to our entire game though their maintaining a known reliable economy graphic... and those lottery & auctions become almost meaningless and needless.

    Does any of this new idea fit into RP? "NO" it does not! It's like the player would be using some unknown Kobold Tech App on a nonexistent Kobold Lap Top Thin-a-ma-Gig, "which is not currently in our game". Our leaderboards come close to being such a beyond RP source of information, but they don't go too deep... just deep enough.

    This is a good reason to follow that lead and do it through our forums "as they did". I'm liking more and more the idea that we could do what we're talking about here in our forums instead of within the game program itself.

    I also think "attraction play" is still worthwhile in competition between the Mega-Market POTs vs Mom & Pop vendors in less foot traveled secluded POTs. I know that whenever I set my vendor to begin selling something, I'll either be shamelessly advertising what I have here in our forum's Player Marketplace, or make a deal to sell through a higher traffic vendor in one of the market towns because that does fit RP, as in real life, small farm communities bring their wares to the county market, or on the side of the road selling it out of a pickup truck.

    Market Gipsy Lots...
    On that note, I also think we need 1/2 row Gipsy Market size lots which require a small tax, cannot be owned yet also must be moved out of within a real world month to seek another lot (thus the name and RP "Gipsy"). Wagons are the key, and this idea comes from an extremely long time ago within our forums, when Gipsy Wagons were first thought of to have a play style that fit them in the travelling salesman role...

    [​IMG]

    This style of possible play goes "poof" if we cause search with prices, which is just another reason to think deeper Ultima and not play convenience stomping more gaming opportunity.


    I always side with ever deeper Ultima over what could be described as superficial and super normal, which can lead to super boring, being the same as every other game.
    ~TL~
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
    Wilfred and Tahru like this.
  13. necronut

    necronut Avatar

    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    872
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Also allowed you go pick up at the terminal closest to the vendor. Still does. I still play.
     
    Time Lord and Vesper like this.
  14. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,765
    Likes Received:
    10,893
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Agree with that completely !
    All we need is the vendor name and town, then it's up to us to go to that vendor. :)
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  15. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,765
    Likes Received:
    10,893
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Global Vendor Search with Prices - Pro's and Con's

    Pro's:

    1 - If you have items that you don't really need AND YOU LIVE IN THE FAR HINTERLANDS away from the Brittany area, you will have the ability for EVERYONE to see your goods IMMEDIATLY.
    2 - If there is something that you NEED you will IMMEDIATLY be able to see if ANYONE IN THE GAME WITH A VENDOR has what you need, compare prices and then travel to that vendor and buy it without wasting hours walking around hoping you might be able to find it at a REASONABLE price.
    3 - A bonus here is that you'll get to see towns that you would never have had a reason to visit before.
    4 - If you're someone who has heavily invested in creating a MERCHANT town, you'll discover that all of your concern about COMPETITION will vanish when you see even MORE traffic than you do now.
    5 - Our population will FINALLY begin actually GROWING again with EVERYONE able to participate in the "economy" and stop wasting their time hoping to find that item they need at any given time, becoming frustrated and ultimately leave the game.

    Con's:

    1 - Sorry, but I can't think of any.

    Happy 4th (tomorrow) btw..................... :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  16. necronut

    necronut Avatar

    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    872
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    2 - There are no cons, except potentially (3)

    3 - The hurt feelings of an insignificant amount of people who've spent years taking advantage of a broken system. (See also: 2)
     
  17. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,087
    Likes Received:
    23,647
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Setting a marker on your compass (like when you're looking for a lot in-town) would be pretty helpful though.
     
    FrostII, Time Lord and necronut like this.
  18. necronut

    necronut Avatar

    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    872
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Shorter version of SWG this time:

    1. Search for goods in terminal.
    2. Purchase and Pickup immediately at terminal if within same region.
    3. Purchase at terminal and/or Waypoint to vendor, and pickup at location.
    4. Travel to nearest terminal to vendor and pickup.

    Terminals were located in every major city.

    This could be done here, with terminal being substituted for an NPC. And it would be BEAUTIFUL.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  19. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    8,266
    Likes Received:
    28,343
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    [​IMG]We may need some delivery place where satyr pay faun really crappy wages and need liberating from :D
    [​IMG]
     
    necronut likes this.
  20. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    5,765
    Likes Received:
    10,893
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I (personally) would prefer to go to the vendor.
    Who knows, I might even pause to look around for a few mins...
     
    Time Lord, Violet Ronso and necronut like this.