What is actually allowed regarding AFK-Farming?

The tactic is certainly valid ... that is get above your targets and out of the way so they don't wander into you while invisible. However, I suspect there should be some chance that NPCs will see through your invisibility. Which did not seem to be the case here.

And, I would add that from my own experiments with macroing, the person must have either been present at the keyboard or set up a movement in the macro. If you set up a simple button push your character will sit down after 10 minutes or so and then you don't cast the spell and I suspect things would fall apart rapidly from there. (When I did this testing I did it in SPO so as not to be the jerk to hamper someone's game.)

Edit: I don't see the same plane as being a good answer. Does that mean if I am standing on a hill my pet can only fight enemies on the very top of the hill with me, and not one 6 feet away and slightly lower? Does stairs apply if I am in a dungeon? So, why not a wagon or barrel? I think the problem is the function of pet AND invisibility in combat.

 

You running out of focus will not stop the pet.

What needs to happen to combat this is EASY -

Pet not on same Z axis as players roots the pets to payers feet, will NOT attack even if commanded, Like lie of sight and archery issues yeah you can shoot but will NOT do damage.

If pet engages, it is the same as combat, and player revelas, if player goes stealth again pet retursn to PASSIVE and goes to layers feet.

If player stay off Axis - for extended period of time pet goes back to stables.

This type of "exploiting" needs to be stopped ASAP and the players reported as they are deliberately bypassing game mechanics for their advantage - Exploiting.

Please do NOT try and validate this play style, Using a pet while actually fighting with them is VERY valid, commanding them to attack is OK, but Same LOS, Z Axis rules HAVE to apply.

And just so you know naming them on these forums is not forbidden, put them in the open let everyone know who these players are.

And yeah lastly this player is pretty dumb since they could have done it on Single Player and not ever been found out.

Report this bug ASAP.

 

@blueberry: That's why I play SPO, so I don't have to deal with this @#$%... But, seriously why don't you go play in a different area, that forest is pretty large... If you must snitch on her, report it as a bug, report her by name if you feel the need...

 

AFK farming should be 100% illegal. If even the slightest AFK farming gets leeway the gold farmers will use it.

 

Should be 100% illegal.. Sure..

So how are you planning on stopping the Botters in single player online? We have static nodes that make it easy to find, and teleporting through the map to the nodes isn't to far ...

I'll just stop talking, yea, 100% illegal. Ban the guys who are in single player afk macroing.

 

So here's something else to consider.
Portalarium tracks all of the game data, and Chris spends a lot of time analyzing and adjusting.
Maybe Portalarium knows what they're doing, and have a means to address afk macroing.
Maybe Portalarium doesn't want to tell you about it, so people won't work on defeating the system.
Maybe afk macroing will have diminishing returns, making it a waste of time.

I would concern myself more with testing the game, and less with what other people are doing.
If you think there's an exploit, report it and move on.
Publicly shaming people that don't talk to you and trying to get people banned for doing things you don't like is not a good use of your time, and probably violates the forum rules.

 

We need players to stop playing the game. That would fix all exploits.



Yeah.

 

Your right Sir Frank.

But if someone where to direct Chris to watch a player whom had made his own custom bot it might help him better figure out how to implement things to help neutralize such exploits.

Of course its not as easy when maybe those 20 players that are doing it out of the 60000 backers are on single player online and only switch to sell for profit or trade for cash.

 

I see no reason to call someone by name on the forum when they can simply contact support, unless you're just trying to start another argument....

 

I love how creative players can find gaps in the mechanics and drive trucks thru them. Done in this development phase helps devs plug the holes.

As for a simple solution, WOW did it elegantly (besides the stigma that surrounds Blizzard's masterpiece, we should show humility when a good idea is useful):

A pet killing a target all on its own gives no XP to its master.

There, fixed with a single IF in the mob death code.

 

+1

 

the exact play style, once figured out it is an issue, yes. bad news, and report the bug as you say. especially if the person who finds it doesn't report it. that is when it is exploited.

HOWEVER:
what is being validated, at least by myself, is the use of elevation as a defensive strategy for a ranged player, with or without a pet.

what should be in the combat AI for the mobs, is make the choice to go ranged as well, swap weapons and start lobbing arrows/magic back at the player, or find the pathing to get to them and keep whacking them with your cudgel. that is what we do, when we fight mobs that pull out ranged weapons, is it not? pathing, especially in sandbox games, has always been something to make devs grumble. it is certainly needed though.

as a combat tactic, having your pet be the tank, and you go ranged (regardless of elevation) so you can DPS while the pet takes the damage...that is PERFECTLY valid. and quite fun too, at least for me, as i've always enjoyed playing ranged characters.

 

There are several quotes from Chris saying that people are allowed to macro because he doesn't think it provides an advantage.

That player is getting both XP and skill gain while they are AFK. I think it is an unfair advantage and destroys the potential of a competitive multiplayer game.

Once players realize that cheating is the only way to remain competitive, you rob the joy of legitimate gains and advances. And players who aren't macroing every day will lose their gear to those who are, so no one will want to engage in PvP. You kill the PvP game.

These concerns were raised multiple times, and Chris made direct statements that people are allowed to macro regardless. I pretty much avoided the R21 release until last night. I need to get my hat so I went to start working on skills. It felt like a massive chore and a painful grind early on. This system has pretty much killed most of my desire to play this game and I can't see myself ever engaging in PvP now.

 

Wait, everyone has to play this same system at launch, how are you at a more significant disadvantage now verse the old system?

 

@enderandrew - i think chris was speaking from a purely math point of view, without taking into consideration what the ulterior motives are - farming xp materials gear, and with the current way the system is setup takes up many of the nodes from non-macro players so they cannot get the PROPER experience and playability from the game, therefore taking future funding away from Portalarium because those legit players simply leave.

one of the biggest problems i've found here with relation to macroing, are the loot tables. i'm going to give you an example by a company called my dot com. russian. they have a game called skyforge. their loot tables are interesting. any loot table you see, are yours and yours alone. period. there are no trades in the game either. any gold seller advertisements in global chat, are just credit card scams, nothing more.

what amuses me, is they can't get away from the asinine gold sellers there either...mostly because that game is PRIME property for the credit card scam portion of their "service"... you literally can not get anything from another player or their work within this game.

now, if they pulled a portalarium and did away with global chat, the gold sellers would more than likely cut their losses and quit advertising inside the game - they'd focus on websites instead - which would still leave the average joe free from their antics.

for the record, i'm not suggesting they disable trading - if they did that, we'd have basically neutered crafting.. but i am suggesting we all have our own loot tables for mobs. and nodes.

 

+1

 

The problem is that I think he is wrong from a math point of view.

He said that you needed to get XP first, so macroing for skills gains only saves you a few hours and isn't huge, but a few hours every day is huge. And it is possible to macro in a way (such as the first post in this thread) that gets you both XP and skill gain, which I brought to his attention multiple times.

It took time to plan, and then at least two months to implement. That time could have been spent on other systems. Other aspects of the game suffered to pull out the old system and implement a new (that will need plenty more balancing in the future as well). So there was an opportunity cost and I don't believe there was a net gain when you consider all the new problems it creates.

What is really frustrating is how this was handled (along with most decisions in the game).

Portalarium makes a decision on their own without discussing it with the community. Once the decision is already final, the Dev+ backers see the announcement early, but that really only seems to serve for proofreading the announcement.

If this decision was discussed with the larger community earlier either Chris may have reconsidered and not spent time implementing it, or at the very least some of the pitfalls could have been called out to make sure the initial implementation was better rather than spending a bunch of time adjusting it later.

 

i think in this specific case, the usebased skill system, they did listen to us. a LOT of people, all over the place, have been asking for it since i got here, and i presume since before then too (i arrived in r12). if the devs actually paid attention to the forums all over the place, but didn't actually respond in the forums, i wouldn't be surprised - because it was kind of overwhelming where people wanted use-based skill systems.

i also think that for a while at least, the dev+ section was intended as both a proofreading AND for a quick feel of the fanbase.. if people went crazy in there, not just one or three...but many, then they'd take more time and fiddle with either the announcement or the tech itself.

haven't seen much of that recently though.

as far as your math, i do not think you are wrong..but i also do not think chris was wrong with his application of it. personally, i think you included more of the player-oriented variables than he did, thats all.

 

I remember hearing that it might change back in December, release 13 as a matter of fact.

So what did you prefer with the old system over the new one?

 

I don't like extreme macroing either. However, I cannot understand getting apoplectic about it. There still is a lot of content to enjoy. If I got upset every time someone cheated or lied or macroed, there isn't a game out there that I could play. Life is a b---- , and so is a game.