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What the new targeting and combat system needs in order to work under the new system.

Discussion in 'Release 29 Feedback Forum' started by Insinious FizzleThorpe, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. Fister Magee

    Fister Magee Avatar

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    Tab targeting would be fine, as long as it is subject to the intercepting rules of the new system, imo. You should not be able to shoot a flaming ball through many targets to the guy behind them.
     
  2. Anvar

    Anvar Avatar

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    1. Having a Clickable toggle switch( and make ALT a toggle) so that heals / buffs etc are either cast on yourself or others.

    2. Make an option to have the crosshair vanish when not in combat mode.

    3. Have an icon ie A large yellow sword pointing down above the mobs hea that your looking at so there is an indicator on the screen , or in programmer art [o] above or around the mob you are looking at. This could be anything , maybe some cool particle effect etc. You might even find that with a system like this to indicate what is selectable then a reticule (or Laz`s recticle ;p ) might not be necessary. Either way have both as toggleable options in the menu.

    4. Some kinda hardlock key ie Change it so ctrl switches modes and Tab locks the current target (within given parameters ie Fov / range / Los will break it). All this locking does is prevent you from auto switching to another target. With this system current healing might just work other wise....

    5. Healing make so that F1-f8 selects a party member to heal , either aslong as your in 140 degrees or so of them
    or simply allow Tab / click targeting purely for heals and buffs, nothing offensive.

    6. Add in some extra heal spells / change a couple more to be ground target (very small aoe heals) because Pbaoe healing is just dull.

    Some or all or none of these ideas + others mentioned and you could have a good system.

    And if all else fails abandon it and put in targeting system from uo - either you click the target with the mouse or you drag his bar out and click it ;) (best system Imo still for an mmo, skill + usability, having as many bars on the screen as you can fit ;p )

    @Chris
     
  3. Hammershtein

    Hammershtein Avatar

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    so for this to work, when casting a spell or shooting an arrow should be allowed at any time with out a target. Right now it makes no sense that i can target what i want but cant shoot it unless i lock a target. so half way implemented.
    some bugs i found when shooting a bow at longer range if two mobs are running at you it will always choose the one further away even if i am looking strait at the one closest. and some times it will choose the one nearest me even when i have something targeted. the one nearest me is not in the ridicule but in a area near my front view. This seems to happen more when the mobs are closer range say like 5-10 meters away.

    by the way i like that tab target is gone, tbh i think it's what made this game not feel 3d.
    now to get the rest of this new mode in the game to make if feel more like a intuitive combat system instead of a turn based game. right now its just stand in one place and shoot because there really is no reason to move so you just stand and trade blows.
     
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  4. Link_of_Hyrule

    Link_of_Hyrule Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    My biggest issue currently is attacking someone close ranged and having my spells go off and attacking another mob thus causing the other mob to come attack me. So for me, I wish we could get a tab target purely to soft target mobs within the recticle view to ensure you don't accidentally cast spells on other mobs. Honestly, the newest version is a lot better and I'm getting used to it. Also, the overland map needs the ability to use the new target so I'm not having to hold mouse buttons down instead I can just activate auto run and be done with it. If they don't want to do that they should bring back the click where you want your guy to run to feature for the overland map. Anyways looking forward to more patches and improvements on the system keep up the great work @Chris and @DarkStarr!
     
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  5. drahn

    drahn Avatar

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    I agree I dont see a real use of the onscreen level up info. The notification in the chat is good, even throwing it over your head for a brief second during combat is plenty. I always liked a system of seeing my progress during a session on some other skill sheet or character sheet for reference. That way those who are not so interested are not distracted by this large UI item.
     
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  6. drahn

    drahn Avatar

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    It would be nice if when I cast an offenssive spell on a character and that character comes and attacks me that I just dont stand there but actually defend myself.
     
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  7. runicpaine

    runicpaine Avatar

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    1: Bring in a hard target fix. This spongey, you might hit your target, or something you didn't even know stuff has killed the entire experience for me.
    2: Let me bring up health bars.
    3: Make interactive mode more like the old system (currently mouse look mode is "easier" to use for the purpose of "trying" to aim but limits your ability to mouse click glyphs. I don't usually mouse click glyphs, but occasionally when stringing together lots of abilities or spells it helps save time. EX: Keyboard 1 + 2, 2, 3, mouse click 8, keyboard 4, 1. <- in this string I can pre-position my fingers straight from 3 to be ready for a 4 and 1 follow up after mouse click 8.) But under the new system If I use interactive mode and move my mouse to click a glyph and... oh idk.... my target moves then I have to right click and move the camera to try and re-aim at them, then try to click my glyph again.... and hopefully..... you know..... they didn't move again.
    4: Arrow and ranged spells with mobs between me and my intended target: While it kinda makes sense that my projectile might not make it all the way to my target...... what says I can't just arch a spell or arrow over someones head? Or for spells (which are magically guided) that I can't weave between stuff. Does lightning striking a tree care if a birds in the way or plane (that's just collateral damage of an ambient effect) Either I should always be able to reach my target, I should be able to choose arch vs linear so I can decide if I want to arch over and around mobs in my way (even with a slight hit penalty) or let my projectiles just hit whatever is in the way , or my spells should cause aoe ambient damage and do slightly less damage to my target for each other target effected by the ambient effect (this could actually be pretty sweet for a fire mage if they get surrounded. suddenly all their spells start doing aoe and burn damage to everything too close to the heat, or ice starts slowing and freezing everything because it got too close)

    With all this said. Sometimes realism in the pursuit of immersion can be the death of immersion. Sometimes the simplest and easiest to use system even if less realistic yields better immersion because you don't have to focus so much on all the variables and can just enjoy doing what you want to do. I'm personally a supporter of the old system, it's what I tested, it's what I thought I was paying for, it's what I think I should get. This late into development is a bad time to completely change the entire combat targeting system and expect enough time to test and adjust it. If they want to add a new system, so be it. I don't see why that means the old system should be removed. There was only 1 issue on the old system and it never even really bothered me that much (and that's that aoe spells cause you to lose your hard target, but re-targeting was insanely easy so not really an issue)

    Those are my thoughts.

    *EDIT* New Idea for new system integration. *I KINDA THINK THIS WOULD BE EPIC*
    The new system would make an extremely cool sub-system. Let me explain. Under the old system if I cast an AOE spell I would lose my current target, If i didn't tab or select a new target myself the new system as a sub-system could kick in and any ability I use would choose the most relevant target in my target arch and make it my new active target (unless or until I change it).

    This would fix the issues for melee and allow better immersion for them, allowing them to just hack and slash away at whatever is in front of them without having to choose new targets as old ones die as well as allow ranged to keep their system as well as pick up a benefit from the new one so they can at least keep casting and doing damage after losing a target but can manually change targets or just pick a new target before casting instead of allowing the system auto-choose.

    So this would be Old System as primary (health bars, tab/click targeting, and hard targets), and new system as a sub-system that only kicks in when you have no target. Ranged commonly like to pick their targets and melee would rather just hit whats in front of them. This would work for both. You can even keep mouse look mode for more immersion (mostly for melee imo) as an option but still allow tab targeting in mouse look mode.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
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  8. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

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    A fix for this is in the works.
     
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  9. Borg

    Borg Avatar

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    What I cant really understand is why this reticle system is based on camera point of view and not in character point of view, Id like to have a look at my back without loosing my adquired target as it works right now. Making targeting system based on character point of view would also solve the problem having to raise camera when you want to target enemies very close to your character when in 3rd view mode.
     
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  10. Gravidy

    Gravidy Avatar

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    This is so important to remember. Immersion is deep mental involvement. I.e., getting the players' minds into the world, and into the subject matter (the game, in this case). We are still constrained by the fact this is a computer game. Forcing the computer interface to be "realistic" can quite often constantly remind us we are on a computer, which is immersion breaking. This is basically "playing the interface" as opposed to "playing the game."

    There's a reason why books can be far more immersive than movies. Our minds are allowed to wander *into* the subject matter, and we quickly forget we're just experiencing paper and ink.

    By focusing gameplay on mouse movement, this new system has constrained immersion to the limits of the user interface. This constraint restricts the player's own imagination, which is one of the most important parts of immersion. This new design abandons the game in favor of the interface, effectively turning it into a poorly designed console port.

    I'm in the same camp. With this design change, I have been abandoned as a customer. My wallet is now closed, and I deeply regret supporting Portalarium to begin with. One lesson I have learned is that I will never back another game on kickstarter.
     
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  11. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  12. Lord Aventine

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    My input is:

    - Keep the reticle but assign it to just one job.

    - Focus on the reticle's first job as a simple pointer showing what the avatar is *currently* facing and targeting with direct attacks is the right one.

    - Abandon the reticle's second job as a locked-target indicator. This was a worthy idea to try. But in practice it doesn't feel good for the computer to auto-lock a targeting reticle, making it immovable as if I am locking missiles in Star Citizen.

    - Allow the avatar to point the reticle at a target it is facing to attack it, while also maintaining a separate 'focus target'. This would allow one to move to a second off-target temporarily to hit it (pull agro off mages), while maintaining the lock on a prime target (for ongoing tanking).

    - Go back to some form of mob highlighting as the means of identifying prime target. Locking a reticle and not having it follow avatar field of view just feels somehow...disturbing.
     
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  13. Vaclav

    Vaclav Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Targeting: I want the reticle targeting removed and toggle/tab targeting put in, at a minimum I want the option to not use rectal or camera position targeting, these features are for FPS or FPV game play, not 3rd person RPG, give me the option to choose how I play. Another thing, this games movement mechanics are too clunky to truly utilize camera POS or reticle targeting and changing the entire games mechanics to put focus on one aspect of the game, eg. PVP, is selfish and unfair to others.GIVE US OPTIONS I really hate the reticle targeting for this game, the screen/camera jumps off POS, movement is not fluid, get this game as fluid as TERA (has rectal and tab combo targeting) then come back to the rectal/ camera POS targeting idea, please give us the option to use either reticle/camera targeting or tab targeting not just one system, the more options the more number of people happy :) (if you are seriously going to keep the reticle targeting, it needs to be a hybrid, (attack skills use camera/rectal and have the ability to lock on to a single target automatically, as in a toggle you turn on and off, not a another key to press during combat; and defense, healing, and any friendly interaction other than looting and both combat and friendly targeted NPC/Players/creatures, need to be shown on the HUD, use tab targeting) combat is extremely frustrating as is, it is workable but way too many tasks to perform to make the present system work, it feels like work not fun, and the reticle position also needs to be adjustable by the player to any place on the screen

    the above entry was taken from a previous post of mine here healing is addressed there
     
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