XP changes, death matters?

Discussion in 'Feedback Archive' started by Jesper Daelin, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. Feeyo

    Feeyo Avatar

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    Risk/Reward should be implemented in a game, if you die you need to feel the pain.

    Option:
    If you die, lose chunk of exp as a timer buff. If you do not die anymore before the buff times out. You receive back a 70% exp of your total loss back into your pool.
    Do you die again while you have the death buff active (before timing out). You lost your exp.
     
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  2. Barugon

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    This would simply encourage people not to play until the timer expires.
     
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  3. Vero

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    On every playerdeath a cute little Bunnywabbit will be nuked by Atos!

    #safetherabbits

    No to loosing xp in Death
     
  4. Feeyo

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    Then make it like a tombstone/soul/bag that you need to get back at the place you died. (With exp death/loss buff timer).
    Problem solved right?
     
  5. Katu

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    Why?

    I do like risk vs reward, I play Tarkov. Lose the gear, but don't take progression away. If you need to feel the pain, go talk to someone /j
     
  6. Feeyo

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    Because that is how games are.
    In my days, playing a game if you would die it was game over. And you could start again..
     
  7. Katu

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    Times change. Go play those old games then. Back then, games had to give you a hard challenge, because it might have been the only game you get that year. Now, we have good selection of games.

    Punishment, for pushing more out of your character is bad design. Look at any game, where there is hard core option, most of the players choose the easy path and stay at low levels for ever. Where is the fun in that? If you lag out, misplay, challenge yourself and die, you get a punishment. Sounds fun.

    Twist that around and give reward for pushing forward, for succeeding in challenges, for trying to become better in someway.

    No, for punishments. Death should not mean nothing to your characters progress.
    Yay, for rewarding courageous, honorable, virtuos playing.
     
  8. Feeyo

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    Well.... if death does not mean anything to your character. Why have death at all. Just remove death, and the stupid annoying respawn as a ghost.
    Then just implement a knockout system, when your health is 0. You faint for a few seconds and awake again to continue your pointless progress going nowhere.
     
  9. Katu

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    So, you can't see nothing but the extremes? Ok, I think this is enough allright.

    Pro tip: Next time you die, just delete your character. Should be hard core then.
     
  10. Feeyo

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    Sigh.
     
  11. Adam Crow

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    Send me gold when you die. Problem solved.

    Or set one of your skills to untrain for 10 minutes when you die. Problem solved.

    Does this sound fun? Will that improve your gameplay? Cause that's basically what you're asking for.
     
  12. oplek

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    Setting aside re-introducing it as a counter to power creep, the notion of "just impose it on yourself" doesn't really work, from my perspective.

    There's two psychological bits I experience,

    1) If the game itself doesn't impose the rule, the rule doesn't exist. Pretending doesn't generate the same immersion of risk. Beyond that, I tried to play offline mode, and within 15 minutes I was hacking my savegame, giving myself billions of gold and XP because I didn't want to go through the grind again, if I didn't have to.

    2) If it's not imposed on others, I'm less likely to use it myself. It's like thinking it'd be fun to have a costume party, but the people who run the party make it optional. You show up in a costume to discover that no one else did, and you feel out of place, and leave. It might not be wrong for the organizer to realize few people wanted a costume party, but the fact it wasn't imposed on everyone in fact ruined your fun.

    So I wouldn't be happy unless everyone else is sharing my pain.

    If the Lua binding points ever allow for anything more than statistics counters, such as inflicting HP damage on yourself, we might get to a point where the mods can create some level of meta-games. And I might actually for making a "survival mode" mod complete with hunger/thirst mechanics that I know so many people hate. That way, the game will impose the rules, and no one else has to suffer.
     
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  13. oplek

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    As an aside, that's another factor in why, as a solo player, I play online. It's waaaaaaay too tempting to cheat in offline mode, because the grind is so unfun. Then I've cheated, and the progress isn't fun. Then I stop playing.
     
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  14. Adam Crow

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    I was joking because obviously nobody is going to impose any type of penalty on themselves.

    But also trying to prove a point - if you won't impose it on yourself then it actually isn't something you want. Whether it's a game mechanic or self imposed, the result is the same.

    The only players that want a death/decay are players that hardly ever die, hardly ever play or are jealous of higher level players and want them to be punished. That's just my opinion, and maybe I'm wrong.

    But it definitely doesn't add anything fun or challenging to the game. It actually has the opposite effect because it only adds frustration and causes players to grind content they find easy. We had it for years, it sucked, and unfortunately for those that want it to return - it won't.
     
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  15. oplek

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    How does it not add challenge? Does it make the game easier, or just have no effect?

    But please don't make global exceptionless truistic claims. All you have to do is listen to the PVP crowd about how risk of loss adds excitement to the game. That sense of risk doesn't psychologically manifest if there isn't an actual risk, and you're just pretending. So these two notions are trivial to disprove. All you can say with any accuracy is that, you personally, along with a group of other people, don't find it fun. That's fine. I tend to like survival mechanics, but I'm not going to make blanket global statements that it's just fun.
     
  16. Adam Crow

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  17. Adam Crow

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    It removes challenge because the majority of players would not risk dying. They wouldn't group up to run hard content. Most would just grind away at easy stuff.

    I stopped leveling my character under the old system so that when I died I wouldn't lose much experience, so it also ended progression for me.

    The way it was implemented before took the fun out of trying new things and helping other players kill hard bosses etc. Dying sucked, the game was less challenging for me because I had no more progression and no interest in putting myself in harms way.

    I don't feel any less challenged now at all. I get to try new things and try to kill bosses that I don't know how to and experiment. Before when i died even though i stopped progressing my character I lost hours worth of xp and would usually shut the game off after death because I would get so pissed off.

    To me that isn't adding challenge, only frustration.
     
  18. Aldo

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    I think we should get a small bonus experience when we die. The bonus should be scaled with the difficulty of the mob at who's hand we died. I confess, most people would shame me for being interested in doing good on the leaderbards. I routinely end up around 100th place on the daily stats for kills. Since I pretty much kill the same number of mobs daily, I look forward to the 30 day stats assuming I will move up in the standings. Therefor, I find myself avoiding death. This is keeping me from the difficult dungeons, the difficult high end mobs and such. As it is, I am not progressing. Not learning anything. I am about to forget about the leaderboards because of this. So what I am saying, loss of Experience will keep some (most) players from tackling the tougher content. Is that where we want to be? That content was developed to give people a challenge, and more will take that challenge and play for days, trying to learn the right gear, the right action bar, the right buffs to defeat the mob. That is play activity we should be trying to encourage, not discourage. More time playing, more excitement, more satisfaction means more players.
     
  19. Chrystoph Reis

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    I loved death decay! It made me choose my skills wisely and play with a purpose. That made accomplishing stuff satisfying. I used to explore every zone and every side quest, etc. Now I have more fun socializing or making stuff than adventuring. The game has no real challenge to it's fight's whatsoever.

    Now granted the casuals complained the loudest and won, it spoke to the mindset of the majority of the community. So bringing it back is not worth Catnip's time or effort to figure out. The majority of people don't want to be punished for playing badly.

    They just want endless content and then gripe when it's not delivered at the pace they want.
    When it was monthly bonanzas... they complained about bugs and how things felt rushed.
    Now that Catnip are taking their time releasing stuff, they are complaining about nothing to do. Most of these people don't QA, because they don't think they should have to... yadda yadda yadda

    Personally if I was Catnip, I would:
    1) Polish live
    2) Do what they want and keep QA open ALL the time.
    3) Let people play on QA all the time.

    That way while others QA the hell out of the new monthly releases. Then when it goes live, you would affectively have the server reset so many people want without affecting daily Live players. The dedicated QA players getting no advantage over Live players, except having more fun. . I'm sure better stuff would end up in the Live game that way. No one would have the right to complain on QA either as its a work in progress. Early Access without getting a permanent character advantage.
     
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  20. Spungwa

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    Death penality I had no problem with when it was the norm, was actually against it being removed. However Re-implementing after so long would cause an outrage. Why even go there.
    Who does it benefit????
    People that want it are not going to spend more money on the game due to a change like this. Some people that hate this type of thing will leave. Net loss for game, no thank you.

    It's one of those decisions that once it was made, it was made for ever.


    Regards
    Spung
     
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