XP Loss on Death!

I understand having a penalty for dying but I feel the system needs improving in one area. The 12 hours should be accumulated over time played and not counting when not logged in!

For Example :

A player that only plays an hour a day will be under more drastic death penalty then one that plays for 4+ hours a day, as one will be able to earn back the xp lost if they die where as the other will if dying each login, will find them self always behind what they were previously in xp!

In order for the time build up to be fair for both players, it should only be building when you are logged in, I feel that having the hours built up while not playing is a undeserved penalty which hurts the casual player more then the hardcore player!

Also just understand from a player point of view, a lot of time and resources go into building xp, it is a shame to have all that go to waste specially when some things are bugged and cause your death which really gets defeating!

I hope you review this as I feel the death penalty is a little severe and doesn't really serve a purpose other then to cause a player grief, this shouldn't add up to hours of game play lost! If it is to stop players from becoming high level in a system that really is never ending as far as skill gain is concerned, which I love BTW. Yet I don't see the worry as no player will have the time to max the system as it is currently designed!

 

Um what?
It is only with online time isnt it?

Im about adv level 90 ish. I farm... die.. farm.. logoit.. log back in.. farm... die.. and etc.
I almost never even see my exp loss, as i make it up in less then 10 min. If it was offline accounted? Id be loosing max exp everytime i jump on. Which isnt the case.

 

Well...I had the impression too that decay is based on rl-time and not ingame-time.

 

I ment time spent online.
Like.. if i turn my game off.. my decay timer stops...

Theres no way its accumulating death decay when not logged in like op suggests.

 

The XP one loses from decay is rather insignificant compare to the total XP the person gained over time and assigned to some skills. Skill decay also has no effect on those who are less than level 40, so it won't really affect new players.

Here are those who get hit hard by skill decay:
- those who obtain XP beyond their regular routine. E.g., someone who had other people power leveling them.

- those who keep all skills on training, they may have very low XP on the pool, which may not be enough to cover the decay.

Although one can easily handle the skill decay by either try not to die too often or find out what's their current skill decay and top off the XP pool 4-5 times more than that before continue their usual game play.

 

Less than level 40 as a character or per skill? Some of my skills are in the 70s while others have single digits yet my overall level is low as what I mostly spend my time doing is wandering around and looking at stuff.

 

Sorta both.. A character with adv level under 40 will be exempt from skill decay altogether. For the skills that are under 40. It contributes only a super tiny amount to the skill decay total accrue.

Keep in mind that the XP it takes to gain next skill level is not linear. It was very low until around 60ish then start to grow like crazy around 80 and above. Each skill also use more or less XP than others to progress as well.

 

Skill decay is relative to how a player plays. If you are a player who never goes 12-hours without playing and you have a lot of skills well above 40, and then take a 12-hour break, your Exp Pool may take a big hit, because you normally would have been gaining lots of Exp. Instead, that time you normally would have been gaining Exp, you are now losing it due to decay. But, even then it stops after 12-hours, which is more than fair. It used to be 72-hours(which makes more sense in controlling players with tons of GM's.) The casual player will suffer minimally at best, as you will have lower Total Experience that is used to calculate your decay. Here are some references to how decay works:

Via Release 37 Instructions:

• Skill Decay Start at 40: Skill decay now does not apply to player until they hit Adventurer Level 40. Once a Player achieves Adventurer Level 40 skill decay begins applying as before.

Via Release 36 Instructions:

• Decay Increased: For the next few releases, we will be increasing the maximum accumulated decay incrementally. For R36, the max accumulated decay is 12 hours. For example, if a player has around a million total experience, a death after 12 or more hours of not dying will result in around a loss of 1250 xp. The lost xp will be deducted from skills not set to maintain or train. If skills are set to maintain or train, the lost xp will be deducted from their pooled experience first.
  

Via Published Player Instructions:

• Skills have minimum requirements for the preceding skill(s). This also means that each skill has a minimum skill level below which it will not decay. This minimum skill level is based on the requirements of child skills in that skill tree. A skill cannot drop below the point where you would no longer qualify for any child skill. For example, the Bladed Combat skill will not decay below level 40, as child skills like Riposte require Bladed Combat be at least that level.

 

Skill decay needs a serious rethink.

Over time, players naturally get gradually higher in level and it becomes possible for a single death to set a player back DAYS of "normal playtime". And now there's talk of increasing this for R41. I'm already experiencing this and I'm by no means "high level". Skill decay is not adding anything beneficial to the game, its not "slowing down" the power gamers, its just creating an unnecessary frustration for mid-level and/or casual players who can log in to play for a few hours and actually get set back to last week.

It is having various detrimental effects:

1. Discourages Grouping
It is almost always better to 'grind' solo - there isn't sufficient mob density to require a large group for xp gaining purposes and since a single death is going to cost you at best hours, I'm finding more and more often I don't want anyone with me while I do the tedious chore of grinding back xp or grinding up a pool to insure me against death.

2. Discourages Trying Anything Challenging
Yeah, I'd like to try some harder content, but knowing that if it doesn't go well I'm going to be back to grinding trivial content for xx/hours (or days) to just get back where I was is not a way to encourage me to do so.

3. Discourages Exploration
A lot of the new zones have fiery death traps and other hazards, places to fall to your death and other nastiness. Why even go in them when - see above - its going to send you back to grinding trivial content for xx/hours to get back to where you were.

4. It isn't actually achieving what it was meant to achieve
There are players with an excess of 100 million xp pooled who, even though the decay is a nuisance, the amount of playtime and the speed at which they can grind make the decay a drop in the bucket.

5. It has already driven away players from the game
I can think of at least 3 people who have left SotA precisely because of skill decay garbage; why invest time into a game when you can go backwards? There are plenty of options for something to play where you keep what you earn.

Suggestion:
Instead of this arbitrary "12 hour this" and "24 hour that" system, why not look at what THAT player has actually earned in the last 24 hours and do your calculation off of that? For someone who plays a couple of hours a day, setting them back to last week is absolutely ludicrous. Someone who is grinding millions a day can afford a million xp hit, someone who is grinding 100k a day - even if they are at the same level - cannot.

 

Sitting on SOTA Santa's Lap and Choosing a Color...

Got a problem with risk management? Deal with it!

I've always found that asking for things from our SOTA developers is much like sitting on "Santa's Lap". Santa is going to make it around the world in the way he sees is fitting and make the toys he wants make, but will still ask players what color we want the new tricycle to be, which Santa may or may not be able to provide because Santa shops at WalMart just like every other Santa in the world does. But we must trust Santa at some point because he's the best toy maker in the world and knows what his elves can make which won't upset the rest of the world around us which makes up the whole Santa fantasy world.

For all the familiar looking things around our game that may seem the same style as other games, SOTA is shaping up to be a game all it's own. Card Combat was once thought of as heresy, yet here it is and proving itself to be a vital part of what set SOTA far apart from other games.

If it were totally up to players how to make all this, then it wouldn't be a Lord British Game ...
Right now Santa says that there will be decay and losses that get along with the rest of our game's concept design. So I'm trusting the Santa knows what he's talking about when it comes to challenge, risk and reward.

Risk management seems to be at the center of those players who want or like a challenging game which has consequences, and those that want a more relaxed world once they've grinded their way up to the top. Use or loose it, risk it and gamble or user proceed with caution is something I agree with, no matter what those numbers are. So personally, I got tiered of my tricycle which is why I'm here with SOTA. If our developers say they're changes things or they're not, it's only a risk management challenge which I'll take in account which may temper my ego when it bites off more than it can chew, because I like consequences for my more risky actions.

So, Thanks SOTA Santa", it came in the perfect color of red which reminds me of blood.

Lessen the Risk, Lessen the Reward

"Risk" = Reward'

 

I don't enjoy having my Adventurer Pool dropping 100k Exp in one death, but it is necessary, and isn't a loss. The experience reduction in my Adventure Pool is being used to maintain the skills I have set to Maintain, and keep those skills from dropping. If you want to maintain your exp pool, turn your skills to Not Training. If you are dying a lot, it might be time to reconsider the areas you are hunting in. If there were no penalties for dying, people would just rush into areas they have no business being in and dying ad nauseam to get special items, more experience,etc. Death penalties present, as @Time Lord pointed out, a Risk vs Reward system that lets the player choose their own risk threshold.

Not sure how death penalties discourage grouping, especially given that grouping gives experience bonuses. The more people in the group, the higher the bonus.

This is Risk vs Reward. You have to ask yourself "Is my current skill level/Adventurer Pool Experience more important to me than taking a risk and trying a harder MOB?" I myself know the risks and will often take the chance and try something more difficult. If my pool gets reduced, so be it. This is not to say that I will be happy with the reduction in my Exp Pool, but I knew the risks. The only person I can be mad at is me, as I was the one who took the risk.

 

That's got my game style written all over it!
In my current Nystal TimeLord build, he's a sneaker gatherer with "hopefully" big defense and evasion values (smuggler), but if there's no true danger, that play style will get very dull, very quickly
~TL~

 

Yeah, 100k is a couple hours work for me 'doing my thing' mining - I could live with that. When its 200k, 300k - its a problem. As the level of the p0pulation slowly rises this has the potential to get ridiculous.

Re your comment about grouping - the "group bonus" you mention does not even NEARLY bring the xp up to par with what you can get solo, unless you're grouped with/being dragged around by someone bigger than you. In which case they have this problem.. Because of skill decay, I feel like grouping with someone is just a setback and making my grind take longer. I find myself making excuses to not bring people because I wont even earn enough xp to cover a death in a few hours play session. Before skill decay, it didn't matter, we'd have fun, have a laugh, we didn't worry about "accidents" but now, such setbacks can be directly measured in "time I'm going to have to grind back the xp I ALREADY EARNED ONCE because of a stupid, pointless mechanic that does nothing to slow down the top 5%."

The "Risk vs Reward" is precisely the reason why this needs to be changed. People pull out this phrase and wave it around as the reason for everything, but it works both ways. The "reward" for killing say, a boss, is more often than not a handful of gem fragments and <20 gold. Yes, said boss can drop artifact and yes, some of those artifacts can sell for up to 100k if you get a nice one, Chances are, unless I'm one of those top 5% who are unhindered by skilldecay, I'm going to need a group. Chances are, someone's going to get killed. And our reward? 4 gold each and 6 obsidian chips to try and split, more than likely. The risk? Hours, or even days of experience at my normal gain rate - gone. Skill decay makes me not want to try anything, the loot tables are so poor that unless you can stomp something easily you're better off grinding cash and buying whatever it is you're after. Its the difference between a really powerful player being able to solo a boss over and over and over again, he deals with the fact that 90% of the time, the loot is crap. If I took 30 mins of hard fighting to bring it down, the 6 obsidian chips as loot is a slap in the face. Risk vs. Reward indeed. If I die in the attempt its an even bigger slap in the face. A system that has a player "better off" if they stayed in town and didn't venture out, or where the "best" use of my time is grinding trivial, nonchallenging content - is garbage.


This is even further exacerbated by a skill system which requires you to level and maintain dozens of skills you never use for "attunement" purposes or to unlock other skills. Worsened even further by making a whole bunch of mobs now immune to magic, forcing mages to spend xp on and maintain even more skills (or vice versa). Its not a matter of "fight somewhere easier" - I can and do do this to save myself the heartache of wasting days re-grinding, but that's kinda my point. The skill decay system is causing people to 'play it safe' all the time which gets boring and repetitive. Many already hesitate to step foot in somewhere the slightest bit challenging because of it, and now its going to be doubled?? Sorry, that's not risk vs. reward. That's just punishment.

Should death be meaningful? Absolutely. But this "system" is crippling many aspects of gameplay and really should cap based on the xp the player has actually earned. I don't know tho, even then, 24 hours of grind as a penalty for a single death? That's rough. I don't see them putting that on the advertisment to entice new folks into the game.

 

"It all has to fit, and what we see in our current economy is only a place holder" ...

This is the largest issue I see as needing change, but if the high risks aren't there, then it needs to remain unchanged. For me, it's an either or neither subject. I can't see myself supporting better drops if the risks aren't there. Indeed I agree, Risk vs Reward is a very two sided issue.

Gold has been said to matter allot less in our future from all past talks by our Portalaium and that's because "special things" (I'm guessing the artifacts) and needed products from players will become more necessary.

My reasoning in all of this comes from Ultima Online's Siege Perilous Shard, and we have some of the creators of that special shard in our Portalarium. Siege Perilous was one of the very first places to play on the internet market to concentrate on building by it's design a player based economy which was more about "things" than it was about gold. NPC vendors would only buy so much and at rock bottom prices and only sold a certain number of things and at very high prices. It's that experience which is now a part of our Portalarium Staff, which I expect to see as our coming future economic changes begin happening across all markets.

For example;

The current large agriculture project I have may produce from 1800+ plants, yet when our economy changes, our NPCs may not buy but so much and not effecting just a single person on an individual basis, but will only buy so much on a daily basis from the greater collective of everyone. But also, such a change would be effecting the price the NPCs sell plant product for, which should rise, causing more demand from the dedicated agriculturist.

Risk vs Reward with the current changes and economy doesn't work, yet within the future economy it will. There's always difficulty in each change our game has made and an uproar from the community because of those changes without having adjusted those things which are effected by that change. Sometimes those needed temporary changes are passed by because of time spent reprograming them to fit the newest change somewhere else, yet needs changing back again, which costs production time and money from having to always readjust everything.

Our game's direction is Risk vs Reward, but in the short term, that may not always seem the case.
I hope that all makes more sense when it comes to our drum beat catch phrases


<construction zone>
~Time Lord~

 

Yeah, you've kinda made my point for me there, Timelord.
In the current state of the game, there is nothing worth killing or fighting that is "worth" the risk of having to grind 3 days to get back to your starting point.
"Development" isn't really a valid reason anymore, why add the punishment months in advance of sorting out the loot/economy/etc. issues?

 

At what adventure level does decay becoming meaningful? or is it purely size of XP pool?
I'm only a casual lvl 80 but I die constantly and it's hardly noticeable :/
old days of tibia / uo free shards there we can talk punishment ^^

 

There is no adventure level that makes the death penalty meaningful for The people grinding all day long. They lose such a small percentage of their applied exp that they can easily maintain and rise above with additional grinding for the rest of the day. For a player logging in for 1 to 2 hours a day and experiencing a maximum decay penalty on each login it becomes a chore. If I log in and die I will have to get back 70k Exp, if I only have an hour to play I would probably just choose not to log in. Because when I return tomorrow they give me another 70k lose and now hope I have enough time to make up 140k. Nope, then I just don't log in. Ohh well guess that's a great cap system for the game. Sure does cap me playing, but doesn't really cap skill gains for people with 256 Gm's playing all day.

Interesting.... waste of breath that won't be looked at.

 

I am at the 1-2 hours every other day group. I die 1-10 times each session still don't really see when decay will hit me hard :/ it's not even a speed bump.

I'm seriously thinking my character is bugged because so many has had complaints on decay and I don't even notice exp going down :/

 

I haven't noticed the penalty just yet but I'm not very advanced. The highest skill I have right now is 80 in Bladed Combat. Apparently, from what you're all saying, it gets MUCH worse the more you have invested in your skills?

 

How much death decay affects you really all depends on how you have your skills set up...I think I only train one or two skills at a time and have all the rest (roughly 110 or so ) set to maintain. As a result, most of the xp I earn flows directly to my skills and my xp pool does not increase significantly (i.e., stays between about 220,000-300,000) Thus, every time I die, my xp pool takes a big hit percentage wise (i.e., about 25,000 - 50,000 xp, which is typically a 10% loss or more...) Since I only play two hours each weeknight and roughly five hours each day on the weekend (i.e. total of 20 hrs/wk), this is not so easy to make up...