Changing attitude towards PVP...

Why should I change?

Yes, I agree with this.... This is why I play Sota, I don't have to deal with PvP, I can enjoy the game the way I want to enjoy this game...

So, I repeat: Why do I have to change?

This whole thread is click bait: trying to continually convince non-PvP to change their ways... Sorry, it would happen...

 

This thread has nothing to do with non PVPers. Thus, I have no idea why you would think I'm addressing you or them. This thread is for those who voluntarily flag or enter a PVP zone. Your attitude seems to be misplaced since I am not trying to convince NON pvpers of anything.

 

If you flag, get killed by a player and complain about it, or get upset at the player, you might need to change your perspective about flagging and stop complaining that what you were warned might happen actually did.

If these hats don't fit you you aren't concerned by this thread at all.

 

This is why I don't flag: I don't have too... So, I'm still trying to figure out Why these PvP threads still keep being posted? Reading them doesn't do anything to convince me to flag, the effort is futile...

So, who is the OUR attitude focused on? Your PvP friends only? or are you trying to convince others to flag and take a chance? Try it, you'll like it BS... No one likes being a victim, and this is the reason PvP just isn't the same in SotA: because these designers eliminated the "Victims" from PvP, now it's all consensual....

And the PvP community is actively trying to change public opinion... I'm here to tell the other side of the story... I'm perfectly happy to pass by PvP zones and that makes other people upset... Why is that?

 

Clearly "our" does not include you. so why are you making this thread about you and copping an attitude? You obviiously do not understand the point of this thread. So I'm not going to go around in circles with you since I already answered your question.

 

My main character was Vecna on Lake Superior server in UO. The early days were quite harsh, and for me it was quite a grind to get my skills up. But it was nice being able to spar my friends and train our combat skills, magery, anatomy, healing, etc. I could spend my time just doing this, without going out into the world and killing monsters. I became better at PvP through repetition, fighting my friends and other players on the server over and over again. Thousands and thousands of fights.

I enjoyed the open world PvP in UO, but I also enjoyed the structure that Order vs Chaos, and Factions brought to the game. There was also a criminal system in place that made PvP interesting. In PvP, loot incentive is exciting for some players, and I was one of them. I enjoy finding good loot on monsters and when I fight against players. I put my own inventory at risk in these combat/PvP environments and the majority of the games I've played over the years have been 'inventory looting' where you tend to capture the content's of the players inventory from their corpse, grave stone, etc.

In UO I could create my own guild and war 1 guild at a time, or many guilds. I could declare my guild was order or chaos, and this would increase the amount of enemies I could fight. Or my guild could join a faction and this would introduce a different type of combat experience where factions vied for control of territory and had other objectives. Wasn't so much a fan of factions but a lot of folks enjoyed it. I enjoyed the structure and purpose that these systems brought to the game. I also enjoyed the free form style of combat where guilds had their own reasons for fighting, they could go back and forth between guild houses and 'their territory' regularly fighting each other, or fight each other in popular dungeons where the loot was good. Loot was a big motivator in PvP in Felucca. Eventually the PvP devolved into runegate fighting and it could be fun occasionally but it got old pretty quick.

The game I play currently is Shadowbane (it's barely alive) - it is inventory looting, but you almost never lose your equipped gear. I can lose a few hundred thousand gold, resources, weapons and armor, magic items, runes, potions, scrolls, etc in a single death and it's not that big of a deal because I can go to another camp and farm it again. The rewards from the loot table are satisfying. In Shadowbane, like UO, there was a tracking skill. So I generally had an idea of the players who were around me, as long as I tracked regularly while farming.

In Shadowbane - Guilds can combine into Nations. Guilds/nations can war each other on a dynamic map, you can take another guild's castle and the map will update automatically. It's not always so simple though, the fights can become very large. Scattered throughout the world's adventure zones there are 'resource mines' which players can fight over. If your guild claims the mine before it's window of opportunity is over, you get to determine what type of resource the mine produces - gold? or various resources for gear?

While I appreciate the fans of free form PvP combat in MMO's, I still miss a lot of the structure from the other games I've played in the past. I don't want PvP to feel like death match mode, or first person shooter. PLZ Roll that win/loss counter into a bounty system because I don't want to see it in the zone I'm playing. (might not be a thing anymore, not sure) It makes the entire PvP experience artificial (for me) I specifically did not play first person shooter games because I preferred RPG's and games like Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, SB, World of Warcraft, etc. The battlegrounds in WoW became very stale after awhile, I guess because there didn't seem like much of an award. They were fun for a bit, but the class imbalance was a bit much. (warlocks, back when I played) And I'd get the best gear from the arena fights but that really felt like a drag. Had to get arena points for multiple characters and multiple friends every week.. bleh.

I do think open world/random pvp conflicts is much more enjoyable because it's unexpected. But the combat system has to be balanced to be fun for me. If you give me a weapon that will kill players in 1 hit over and over again I'm honestly the player that wont use it. I just kinda tune out when it comes to games like that. I prefer the fights to be competitive, a bit drawn out and interesting. In group fights? Ya people are going to get pwned much faster, unless they have healers.

I guess if reticle based combat/first person shooter feel becomes the norm in MMO style games then I might be done with them. Can't we add complexity to combat systems without making the combat system an action RPG (fewer and fewer skills to use) or first person shooter?

Not all of these thoughts apply to SOTA, but I would've liked to see more purpose and structure to PvP. Also too many bugaboos in the combat system for me to have fun. spamming random skills to reveal stealthers.. how many different ways in the game can stealthers be revealed? IT'S A LOT. and stealthers taking 0 damage but still getting revealed when dropping from an elevation.

 

Putting it simple, PvP has two big problems in SotA:
1) it's futile;
2) the fights last around 5 seconds.

Both issues are VERY difficult to solve.

 

Both those factors are very true!

What conserns one of us conserns us all, so don't be surprized when everyone gathers for a group hug for PvP & queenbee PvP in SOTA has always been about audience and here in our forums when posting anything about it, becomes an audience participation thread. They become so long due to that aspect in audience paticipation which draws many to it to join into the conversation.

Whenever there can be seen such a force as this, then there is something that needs to be capitalized on within it, so the audience paticipation here as in this thread, can then translate into more audience participation in-game.

Both of those self evident forces of attraction only point to one thing, that like a circus elephant, slightly tame yet still slightly wild, needs to be brought in for the community to enjoy and not the other way around.


*Time for a group hug!* ~Time Lord~

 

I don't mind if the crowd wants to participate, but I always get a bad taste in my mouth when someone decides to put words there that I didn't say.

If I am asking people who flag or go in PvP scenes to lighten up and actually accept the consequences of their decisions, I'm in no way, shape or form telling non-pvpers to appreciate PvP.

Some people have the bad habit of trying to tear down things that don't even concern them, and guess what? From my 5 years playing this game, I feel like one of the biggest factors to making PvP this rewardless and nearly barren wasteland was the cries of people who never, and will never PvP.

The perfect example, Smoker, who clearly states he doesn't and will never pvp, coming in, probably reading one or two lines in the whole discussion, and then asking us why we want to make him PvP, which has never ever been what any of us has said.

Bring an audience, have them participate with constructive elements, but do not change my words to fit your anti-pvp agenda.

 

Yet the subject drew him to the thread. The power of PvP attrativeness does not exclude anyone, like the attractiveness of the power of gravity, it's there and effects everything and in this case everyone.

PvP rarely conforms willingly to the design of our game. It's almost as if it's the last hold out, clinging to it's days in UO or the ways of some other game. We have never truly seen a hayday in SOTA/PvP, which leaves our own haydays in PvP when PvP did have audience who came as audience. That was when our Pvp was on the "up tic" in it's development tempo, thus far, and it's been on the down tic in development tempo ever since.

Nobody likes everybody in the audience, they all come for the show, yet the show did attract everyone who came. In this thread, that even ment KGB as well as others who are not pvp fans, but couldn't resist PvP's powers of attraction when mentioned in a conversation thread.
~TL~

There's a power there,

a power yet exploited!

 

My friend's 4 year old son picked up a squirt gun to join in on the battle going on. He got squirted and got mad. His sister bluntly said, "well that's the point."

I've seen too many people getting pissed after they voluntarily get flagged and get killed. Hey, that's the point. I saw one guy completely lose it on a stream because he was afk whi.e flagged and came back dead. My first question was, why would you go afk while flagged?

There is a reason the oracle refers to not flagging as "protection." If you remove that protection, then you may get "squirted".

This thread has nothing to do with the shortcomings of PVP. I agree, the PVP system needs work.

 

You say this...

Yet this is the first sentence in the thread...

Which one is correct, as they are in conflict with each other.

Asking for others to change what they feel is beyond unreasonable, as the human experience as an individual is made up of and guided by our feelings, the way we feel about or during some event.

"Doctrine" is the only other element of any rigid frigidness and that is an imposed or alured regement of conformity to a single minded state for joint purpose and control.

You know other players are not you, you know they will have a wide range of different feelings when encountering anything, whether enjoying or not enjoying anything. Indoctrination is what is called for in order to have many conform to the one.

In order to indoctrinate, such changes demand a regiment of structured experiences be made, changing any previous normality within the masses.

So, the answer lay between both your first and last sentence, which both point to change, whether in the shortcomings or the values within PvP.

Such changes don't happen without aluring or imposed regiment, which require looking deeply into those shortcomings and values.
~TL~

 

It contributes to the toxic attitude towards PVP. If you don't ever flag or PVP, this thread has NOTHING to do with you. For those who do flag, own up to the decision you made. Maybe if PVP had a more positive attitude, then more focus will be made to improve the system.

 

Maybe if the system were improved, then more attitudes towards PvP would be more positive.
It's been proven time and again through thousands of PvP posts that...

It's been proven through all those posts that those interested in PvP will not voluntarily conform to a single norm, nore will the wider community who audience PvP, it must be imposed through development.

PvP will always be an issue that conforms, reforms and is regimented in it's doctrine through development. This thread and all threads have everything to do with everyone's alure to engage in any activity.
How could anything change from being a small community into a larger one without everyone being invitingly included?

You seem to present a contradition when you imply that others need excluding from a conversation when your goal is to have more included in the activity.
Inclusiveness and exclusiveness are two very different things.
~Time Lord~

 

I'm trying to understand how we got to this, when the initial debate (that started mid thread by Smoker, not the initial point from Bee), came because someone who doesn't want to be included asked us why we were pressuring him to include himself, and we simply are trying to explain to him that if he doesn't want to be included he can just not be. Smoker feels like he is being pressured into PvP by us against his will, and there is nowhere in this entire thread where that has been our actual point.

Yes, make PvP as inclusive as can be, I 100% agree with it, but what about those who do not want to be included and simply try to derail the topic (which actually worked, unfortunately...)

These past 2 pages are simply some back and forth between me and Bee telling Smoker "Hey, if you don't want to take part, don't, we don't want you to come if you don't want to", Smoker replying "You are forcing me into this leave me alone", and you telling us "We need to include as many as we can." You are right, we should, but we were simply correcting Smokers troll comments about how he is falsely accusing us of pressuring him into participating against his will...

Guess this is gonna be another PvP thread that got derailed to death, I guess I'll do like most here and just give up on the subject here...

 

Steel never wants to become a sword, it must be pounded into it...

For me, KGB represents a common general audience, who will not or may not ever PvP. Such players cannot have their minds changed, unless something alures, forces or gets them fooled into it.

In this way, such attitudes from players are like anvils, where pounding steel between them and the hammer can bring something special.

It's that space between the anvil and the hammer where we're at, which is an uncomfortable place for most. The Tao Te Ching mentions this, that change is never comfortable. Whether or not the Tao TC is correct or not can be debated, yet let's assume that it's right due to the steel not being comfortable between the anvil and the hammer;

Things this possibly point to:

• SOTA is not nessesarily built for competition. It's not a highlite of ours.
• There's nothing that builds a taste for competition that has been enough to lure many into wanting to smash each other's heads in. Yes there are some leader boards and in some cases prizes, but it just hasn't budged our larger community to honor, envy or wish to become like our PvP players, who represent a very talented class of players, and some would say our best.

The distance between someone avidly actively involved in pvp and a player like KGB who is not, is like the distance between here and Mars. We may never get there with anything other than robots, but we still try, because as impossible as it seems, "nothing is impossible".

Our game is still in early development in our pvp as I see it. Like everything else in our game, things were brought to a level of saying we had it, but until it's addressed in development again, small tweeks are all we've had, which isn't a bad thing. It's not a bad thing because whatever we could have dreamed to be in the past, is now much more broad a subject to help us choose a better direction.

Enter the Machines...

While that's not a pvp subject, it actually is because it's development lay between the anvil and the hammer here in this thread. We see the machines, we even fight the machines but we are yet to build the machines which engage in combat.



What if such a crafted pet did better in PvP than it did in hunting, which would then differ their fun from the more common live pet which could do better in hunting yet be very handicaped in PvP. What if it could pvp for us?

I use the above just as an example from how we bridge the gap between a player like queenbee and a player like KGB. using these two as an example, they are the parameters, the hammer and the anvil, the question of how we get from here to there. With parameters comes focus and from focus comes the ideas for those bridge ideas, which are the ultimate aiming point we all share who are conserned with this important subject.

Our game is like no other, so our pvp should become like no other because we are developed like no other gaming program. Just as the thick skin queenbee calls for, the thicker our skin the very much better our pvp ideas will be as long as our aim is correctly centered.

Our pvp must conform to what we have, and maybe to what we know we will be recieving from our developers. Just as with this thread, too many times, our developers have commented on what will come in pvp and then been trolled for what they have said resulting in development being a game shattering ender by those who review games or those who just troll. It happens, get over it, deal with it and get a new attitude for it, as queenbee may say.

But the above, should never stop the fight. Long threads have many things come from them, yet always include what we think is derailment, which is only opposition.
We all know what's called for, we just have yet to have found it's best solutions.
~TL~

 

I couldn't resist TL, plus to just completely derail the thread :

 

All too true! (I love the scene where he turns into a snake) Our developers will force the change though, and hopefully it will alure

 

I loved the scene where valeria and Conan started to …. Ah …. Not turn into a snake together nor something like that.

 

Alright, well since we're going down memory lane of fantasy classics, I fell in love with Brigitte Nielson after watching Red Sonja on the Sci-Fi channel as kid :