PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

Oh i know, just thought most of those guys were gone.

 

So all the indie games that are made by a few ppl for fun and end up raking in millions must be completely stupid, why dont you go tell him the reason hes making the game is wrong or thet you know better im sure he would educate you

 

Do you think different loot rules could happen on a per hex basis? I'm not baiting or trying to start an argument in any shape way or form. Honest opinion! Could one instance (scene, hex, whatever) in the game be full loot?

 

Isn't that what you are doing?

 

And by far the vast majority of Indies make no money at all, or lose money. Richard Garriott has been in this business too long, and has been too successful, along with the members of his team, so I consider him to be a safer bet.

If you disagree, why are you here, and not investing in a high risk indie?

 

Im still wonderig why pvers always get their way and pvpers rarely if ever do? Because thats where the money is? The same iid who jumps off a roof onto concrete is adverse to taking risks in a game in which reality isnt real. Makes total sense

 

No, I'm going to accept whatever he says and go on my merry way.

 

1. Acceptably low risk.
2. Increasing the risk doesn't bring better rewards. Driving so fast it becomes unsafe can, at most, increase my efficiency in collecting the exact same rewards I would get by going safe and slow. Often not even that, because going over the safe limits will usually result in a speeding ticket.
3. For many of the tasks that would require driving it's possible to pay a bit more to have whatever I was going to get delivered, thus avoiding driving altogether.

 

I suspect the devs think it would be more trouble than it's worth on the first release, and they aren't entirely sure how much interest exists for PvP. Following release, if PvP is wildly popular, they might add such a feature, either in a patch or update, or in a subsequent release.

 

Yes you do, or the game dies from attrition.

For some, then there are others that would PvP if PvP was not full of mechanics that turn into the vehicle for harassment.

In this thread alone they have already shown "risk", you are not asking to adjust the loss for that risk you are demanding the open it up completely, to the level that it's more about punishment than risk.

You seem to believe that, but you would be suprised how many people do understand. What you are not understanding is maybe it's not a bad idea to lighten up just a little.

With the posting of this thread the devs how shown they are not coercing anyone, they are giving incentive to accept the risk. If they don't enjoy the risk, they can't go back to avoiding PvP.

It's not just about your play style. Many people are interested in the resource economy. Giving people multiply methods to obtain those resources is a good thing. It doesn't take away from any one play style unless the balance of availability vs risk is slanted to favor one style over others.

This is the reason I posted my suggestion. It's not full loot but give's the player a chance to see everything and loot what they value most. If they don't care about loot and just want to make a quick payout then the ransom system kicks in. Either way, they only have so much time to make their choice. Tactics will be required to maximize your looting potential from a corpse. (the ransom as described is very bad, that's insurance, it should be the victor's choice not the victim's)

Tactics will also be required to minimize someone's looting potential if they kill you. Risk venturing into dangerous territory then you risk full loot, stay near a place to rez quickly and the amount of loot you will lose is quickly mitigated.

 

Usually, very much this. Devs look at pre-Trammel UO, at Mortal Online, at Darkfall, and at other games with this kind of PvP, and decide to go a different route.

That is not to say that PvP doesn't bring money, but - excepting EVE - about every highly successful PvP game was either about fully consensual PvP without player looting, or else a permadeath game where the character's live expectancy is measured in hours.

 

" I wonder why pve'ers always get thier way and pvpers don't "

It never struck you that you acually might be wrong? I thought not.
if you go in from a pvp perspective, then its only appealing for pvpers, and the game would quickly die out.

Why? Because pvpers dont want a game with only pvpers, History in gaming has shown that over and over and over and over again.

 

And which AAA company have developed a oldschool UO game after UO? None. To compare anything you need 2 equal options which you lack here.

And you just forgot about UO, it was very successful even after the split. Yes, felucca had it's best years after trammel and it sure had non-consensual PvP and full loot.

 

Let's just say it like it is... Open PvP made UO big and it was in a growth pattern till the split.... After that it went from 200k players to 100k players.

 

Don't forget the number of people who gained internet access doubled about 10 times. You're being too humble sir.

 

I had a dream that night.
I heard Lord British talk to me:

Abydos, Shroud of the Avatar is unlike any MMORPG you may have played befor. It is a sandbox. Now that you are entering the world of New Britannia, let’s cover a few basic principles.

Understand that you are always in danger, while guards patrol the streets and will defend you, violent action may still be taken again you. Shroud of the Avatar is a full loot MMORPG and thus every item you are wearing or carrying upon death is dropped to the ground in your loot bag. Each town has one or more bank where you can store your valuables when they are not immediately needed. When in town it is often a good idea to keep an eye out for pickpockets.

As you are now likely aware, good luck Avatar whit your first steps in New Britannia is a game without limitations; you are free to do and become anything you wish.

 

Heh, I wouldn't mind. However many would, and that's not going to change. I'm happy with partial loot and consensual open PVP with good incentives to go PVP.

 

Full loot is to much of a double edged sword, dead players as piñatas is fun for looter and the nostalgic UO player, but, enough loot or gear lost through pvp, the more frustrated players will become.
Result will be less pvpers.
Harsh negative reward for losing will also cause folk to hide out in other places most of the day, instead of roaming around, and when they do show up to pvp it will be with a raiding group.

I like that they are trying to make pvp fun and rewarding in its own way.

 

My worst fear is SotA becoming just another kiddy game. The feeling of a dangerous world is priceless when it comes to create real team spirit instead of just egoistic, temporary farm groups.

Call a friend to help you in against like a PKer in UO. He'll be there in seconds...

Call a "friend" in your average kiddy game and he will be busy cause you cant lose anything anyway...

Please think about it again, cause insurance for one single item per death is no danger but resembles very much that crappy soulbound stuff.

 

I'm just putting this out for consideration, having not yet read past page 10.

Drop the ransom system as requiring too much effort in terms of UI, timers, item-valuation, selection criteria, and related concerns.

Move the focus of PvP (and developer resources freed from the ransom system) to Guild Warfare and related events. Adjust the looting rules in that environment, as needed. Provide additional incentives where possible.

Don't allow looting, just the PvP trophies (heads, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes). It seems some people are in favor of dropping consumables, maybe gold, but not equipment.

Allow trading of the trophies on the black market (or other avenues for 'scalping' them) for PvP related enhancements, recipes etc. These are the PvP enhancements mentioned in the OP as being applied 'on top of the PVE stats'. This is the reward for PvP, adjust the value as needed.

The cost of death (damage to equipment, experience debt, rebinding sickness) still apply and become the cost and risk to PvP (and PvE as death still applies there). Adjust the costs of these penalties as appropriate and aim to balance them with crafters doing the repair work, or making more or better equipment. Make additional adjustments in Guild Warfare versus Open PvP areas, as needed.


Have someone you don't like in-game or want retaliation against them? Place a bounty on them to increase the worth of their 'trophies', thus encouraging more people to seek them out for capital gain (or sport, or whatever). Allow NPCs to increase bounties if they see behaviors (killing people) that are inappropriate for the location (like next to a PvP trainer or spawn point in a PvP zone).