PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

This right here, this is where the disconnect comes from IMO. It comes off as if you are either PvP or you are not.

What about those that believe in what they devs have put forward. Under the Why no full loot? section of the OP, it points out a few reasons for their choice in loot. People have reasons to discuss loot, full open PvP or not.

A separate server may end up happening, a lot of games go that route eventually. This carries a major issue with the story driven focus though. Server divergence, as you can see with these forums, what PvPers want can greatly differ from what PvEers*** want.

Spending months of Dev time in a story that is completely ignored by one server type and enjoyed by the other will spark outrage and cries of favoritism will be heard. At what point do the two different server types become two different games? Plus, the meta server tech could make 2 servers virtually pointless.

Agreed, but an idle mind can wreak havoc on any game. Games overwhelmed with griefing are games that have bored/unhappy players. Give the players something worthy of their time and griefing is self contained.


***See my first comment

 

Sorry, the PvE-Only crowd does not want extra money spent on a PvP server. Just to get you up to speed, the PvE-Only crowd has asked for every single resource in the game and got it. Now they are trying to keep PvP nerfed down ...just in case they decide to try it sometime.

Pirates of the Burning Sea is an example of a great non-consensual PvP game with full loot. The catch was, you had to grind PvE around the ports to keep the PvP radius open. At one time the whole map was PvP....and everyone was raving about how fun it was. The French conquered the map and the devs reset it...you can't follow up that kind of excitement with more grinding. Everyone quit from the lack of PvP.

PvP games don't fail because the PvP sucks...they fail for the same reason PvE games do...because the PvE sucks.

 

Same !



Real Sand BOX Server Plz Full PvP Full LOOT ! Yeah Yeah And Yeah !

 

PvP gets every single resouce in the game with rare resources and creatures in more abundance... just sayin.

 

I will have to PvE to get most of those items. Being able to flag and risk my ass while doing it is not what I consider "getting ". Personally, if I were PvE-Only my conscious would not allow this. I would want something more than sentimental value for the players who want to risk it in a PvE-Only world.

 

We do not know that at this point, you may very well be able to PvP, only, to everything in this game. No info in that department.

 

I will quit complaining when I see some advantage to PvP out in the nerf world. I don't consider causing someone skill debt an advantage or even fun. So far it sounds like a major disadvantage.

Considering half the people on these forums feel like they have been misled. I think that we should stick to what we know.

 

Well looks like we will get a response. Tomorrow's deep dive hangout will be about PvP and Death!

 

To clarify I did not feel misled, both my pledges hold.

I would play this as single player, or just sharing some social and business and quests like others would have it. And I know a great story when I see one, Weis and Hickman have made my childhood, Ultima and DnD is the other part... so seeing both reunite was enough to get patron pledge. Seeing how nicely my very excentric sleigh of hand was tolerated *emphasis* by the community and in the chat room was enough to push me to get a much bigger pledge. I must say that I think there were some amazing posts, Umbrae, Yogi, Ristra ; you all make so much sense. Thats exactly why I jumped in like the court jester.

But there is no disconnect, we have cloud computing and we are able to create perfect fusion of both world in one "new world", about which we cannot be led by a cloud, or any sophisticated oracle.

I feel uncomfortable advancing myself because I am aware of just how complex it is and how few people can complete my iterations. This is the stuff some very passionate people have dreams about, the potential we have.

This "polarization" is pure energy, and that is why I am saying what I say without saying it and them that has ears hears.

I will hint, since I deem very worthy minds deserve a crumb.

What if, what if... we had a full loot, full pvp WITH limiting non-divulged mechanics that involve dieties and other unseen forces to prevent FRIGGIN GRIEFING in the most elegant way by creating a second superposed world where everything would be ultra slow ala siege style, but even worse than siege as thats the basis for the concept. This "overlay" would put a small community to the test while receiving no special attention ala EA style exept transparent moderating.

We're looking for the kind of immersion that might in the future very importantly perhaps drag the WHOLE WORLD to see the genius of Lord Gariott and the whole community, thus the player houses that are living in the PvE world appeared as npc houses, and the players are not forced to join ! Since we would have no major impact on them other than purchasing their vendor items (with some limitations that fit roleplay) and I'm open to perhaps even seeing their character put into the game if they will not fill the position and automation allows. As its been said there is as much anti-pk than pk in the roleplaying hardcore playing kin, so people need something meaningful to protect. Very wealthy powerful players in the old world, pun intended, would have an importance that isn't negligible, lots of strategic scenarios that can be played offhandedly, in the quiet as a mini-game for the PvE player. So there is no adrenaline involved, the quiet player type that likes to relax in his game and not feel attached is also served. Heck we even have the strategy hex playing overland map thing... why not use it to its full potential ?

We have cloud computing, we can do this, I'll repeat it time and again.

I don't see them and their meta-playing dosen't affect too much my immersion. They don't see me and I don't affect their immersion, until they feel the call. This really easily mixes in with the current developpement plans, and there is no losers, unless you see having the kind of fun we would have as a loss, right ; pun intended.

I wont adress oligarchy and other meta-gaming methods for FRIGGIN GRIEFING roleplayers, because those players don't even deserve attention. There needs to obviously be limits to what "pierces through" in the true world where even the equivalent of a +1 sword will be rare for a long time. It's not because someone can beat episode 1-5 that they would do good as a roleplayer in the new world so there is no way that any powergamer ultra fast gotten loot would be available in our "new siege perilous"... it would have to be carefully monitored by a qualified team of moderators that use cross reference cloud statistics to prevent anyone in the new world to make it too fast through the story. It's really the cheapest you can expect to adhere us to this game.

My proposal is adding even more value into the game through time, and alas its just a tiny piece of the iceberg that was downloaded into me by someone you all are very familiar with that appreciates many of you to this day.

I will settle with no less than a full blown NCC-Enterprise first contact if Lord Gariott is at the helm. There is no compromise to be made, everyone can't be equally meaningful or the immersion is ruined... and people in the PvE social and business driven world cannot interfere with any of the new world politics unless they decide to step through the veil. This veil would, and wants to be very thin and let others see through it, so they can see the greatness manifesting.

There is alot of people that are soon going to get bored blowing each other up in GTA who will look for something truely meaningful, they will line up to join in. Then we would be ready, because the community would already have a history and true polarity grounding.

If we don't open our minds and take matters into our own hands now, your humble companion will be swatted away or worse, captured by the guardian, or perhaps even worse... her. There is no other way I can express myself with the proposed dynamics, so here is my hand ; you can either take it or leave it I still love you.

Eyes wide shut we stumble through life.

I see you you see me, I don't see you you don't see me.

It's really that simple folks. This new world does not get or require attention (exept a few twists and moderators) until the episodes are done... everyone is happy.

Ordo ab chao... Ad vitam æternam... Audentis fortuna iuvat... Credula res amor est...
E lauhoe mai na wa'a, pupukahi i holomua, kulia i ka nu'u

Chan iongnadh boladh nan sgadan a bhith den t-soitheach sam bi iad

मनसि वचसि काये पुण्यपीयूषपूर्णाः
त्रिभुवनमुपकारश्रेणिभिः प्रीणयन्तः।
परगुणपरमाणून्पर्वतीकृत्य नित्यं
निजहृदि विकसन्तः सन्ति सन्तः कियन्तः॥

 

No use for PvPers (at least who support UO style open pvp more or less) to stand up in this post tbh.As people said PvE crowd took whatever it wanted.Game is going towards the usual recipie of WoW.Plain and simple.I my self didnt even bother trying Release 4.I find games like Diablo more honest and straightforward.Dont try to persuade developers that were involved in games like Barbie and stuff.Let this game be yet another clone of WoW .
For me living a story as it was described in KS,is about the adventure.And guess what,adventure doesnt come with a risk.And when we say risk,we are describing something unusual that we didnt expect,not that we died from an Ogre cause we got bored to push the healing potion.The picture atm is like WoW without any differences,except the non-instanced housing and better non card based PvP(no full loot but at least soulbound and epics were what this game is all about and at least WoW was honest with that from day 1).
Heyyyyy Star Citizen has gathered 40 million?But how?They got open pvp and loot.Strange things indeed....
Tabula Rasa anyone? (cough)

 

Day one with the current zone design:
Everyone that wants to PvP will be sitting near the lunar rift and road out of town PvPing with each other.

Non consensual PvP = everyone will be attacked there and will be PvPing, nothing else will be possible.
Consensual PvP = PvPers will be PvPing and those that wish to do something else will be able to do so.

Non consensual PvP will run over every aspect of the game. If the desire is to make this a non consensual PvP game. Scrap the other things to do and focus on the purpose of PvP. As long as the story is the focus, consent is a must.

Anyone that wants to enjoy the story in PvP can do so, they will have to find a way to deal with PvP first, that's their choice. I can not see a single reason why (without making assumptions) someone else doing anything in this game not flagged as PvP has anything to do with a PvPer's game.

How many players per instance? 50? Do you really thing the PvP population will not be able to fill a hex instance without the need for pulling in non PvPers?

Flag for PvP and forget about those not interested in PvP.

WoW has nothing like that.

 

I'm pretty fed up with the negativity that has invaded this forum the last few weeks (though I must admit I used to rejoice at the drama over in the PvP subsection, I know, it's bad but I just can't help myself).

Let me try and explain why I think the posts about "feeling misled" or "PvErs won!" are out of place.

The "fabled PvErs" (those PvErs who never ever PvP and whose sole purpose in life is to make the "true" PvPers miserable) never won anything. They didn't even have to put up a fight because consensual PvP was the plan all along. And even if each and every post in this forum asked for non-consensual open PvP, the ruleset would be the same because that was the design of the game to begin with.

If anything, PvPers won, since as far as I can tell (I'm no Dev+) open PvP has been added to the game as a consequence of all the PvPers who came here in hope of finding old school rulesets for PvP.

The current rants about PvP are pretty much as if I had backed Star Citizen since day one and now posted lots of threads on their forum saying I was lied to because the game has non-consensual PvP in it. It wouldn't make sense because that's the design the developpers of Star Citizen want and there's no reason not to respect their decision.

So please please please, remember that your expectations about a game in development (no matter how good your reasons to expect were) are just that, expectations, and that you may be disappointed if those expectations don't happen to become a reality.

If you feel this game has become worthless to your eyes, then it's not that it's BECOME so, it's BEEN so all along.

 

Amen on that. The thing that gets lost is that this is Portalarium's game. I haven't seen anything that has been inconsistent with their vision from day one. What happens is that people get on soapboxes about these things and people will either defend the Dev's position or attack it, but usually the community just ends up in a circular argument over things they really don't have control over. PVPers blame PVEers and PVEers blame PVPers, and it would be comical if not for the poison and negativity is leaves behind.

Sometimes I think people forget who is making the game and just attacks anyone that disagrees with them. I feel sorry for the Devs who are the ones that have to dig through this poison to actually find some descent feedback. However, what is more likely to happen is they just ignore the whole thing and do whatever they want, which as much as I like their involvement with the community might be the best thing.

The shame is that there have been a few good ideas mentioned, but being buried in this much FUD makes it more likely the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater.

Here's to hoping things get better, and people learn to get alone. Afterall, isn't that the crutch of the whole PVP/PVE argument?

 

You do know that Star Citizen also allows private servers, right? Including PvE private servers?

And also that there is already an active modding community forming around the game, despite the fact mods will only work on private servers?

This is why I'm a Star Citizen backer. I doubt I will even bother creating a character for their official server, but you can bet I will be playing the heck out of that game either offline or in private PvE servers, enjoying mods that would likely be impossible to add to the official game due to either going against CR's vision or that would infringe on third party IP.

 

That is one of the best solutions. That way the people playing the main game don't have to suffer the demands of those who "just want to be left alone" in an online multiplayer environment. I was hoping that this game would make some of its later stretch goals that might have allowed us that capability too.

 

We already have "multiple servers", they're called instances. If the devs design the player shuffling mechanism right (and this should be a point of concern) the PvPers will be in a world with only PvPers and the PvErs in a world with only PvErs and will only interact though second-hand elements but never encounter.

It also has the FPO and SPO modes... it's a very complex game mechanic, not the usual open mmo where you can see and interact with everyone in the same server. The key here is the shuffling mechanism.

 

As if we didn't know what an instance is... as if we didn't know about pvp flags... as if we didn't still clearly say its not enough. Many of us have been involved with programming, emulation servers, cloud computing etc...

You guys can't paddle a boat with a hole back up ; its going to go down low on the diagonal. You better chop yourself a raft whole the boat is still afloat...

PvP or PvE... both pointless to me if the story dosen't tie in with the community. It will play out like diablo... oh my the big bad guy gives me shivers, not...

 

On that, we can agree.

Though I suspect for different reasons.

 

Here is the original vision for those of you who persist in claiming PvP players have nothing to complain about. PvE originally only had "safe paths" and they were NOT guaranteed.

You think you are fed up with PvP players complaining. The reality is, we are only trying to get back a fraction of what we have lost. I don't have to explain how we lost it; PvP players are not the ones who started out with incessant complaining.

 

Evidently, it didn't play out that way, exactly. Seems reasonable for a fictitious example.

It would seem that "the safety and openness they desire" was fulfilled to some degree, though. Safety by choice, and openness by choice. Compromise being what it is, nobody is going to be completely happy, but the current thinking seems viable, to me.