Player cities and rent?

You own the town. You make the rules .

Treat people fairly and honestly, build a solid reputation, and give people a reason to want to live in your town and you probally have zero issue charging other players for lots.

This can be handled between the players. In uo knew of many heavily used vendor shops that required you paid gold for the vendor each month.

In many cases location did not matter. The owners worked hard to promote it, market it, gave you exclusive rights on your chosen good, and everyone had to stay stocked so they brought business in for each other.

I had a vendor in such a place for free because i dealt in high dollar rares and i was considered a "draw " for the shop that was hard to get ( as i could keep it stocked with houses full of inventory investment).

On occasion someone had to be evicted due to continual issues . Overall though it worked great. Everyone had sort of a shared agent running the shop for them saving them a LOT of work. The owner held events . Had draws, like dye tubs and rune libraries. Everyone won...,,, the devs were not involved in it.

The principles for a player town renting lots are basically they same. Give them desire to want to be in your city, have rules but make sure they are understood ... Be understanding within reason ("your two days late on this months rent , bye!!! Youll loose everyone.... "This is the third time your weeks late and you owe me two months, im sorry you have to leave" youll have respect).

Be stern when its called for. Be transparent, fair, and honest.. And youll be like that shop... "You want to rent a lot??? Were double the cost of most people.. Hmm ok , but were also full up? Yes i can put you on a waiting list".

Portalarium is giving you everything you need. You just have to make it work . Thats what sandbox is all about .

 

What would you recommend in this game for someone that has more time than money? Just stick with pledge and leave cities for players with more time ? Could part time affluent players be welcomed in such a location as you describe in another players city?

 

My opinions only mind you. To the second question first: Yes! Many towns will welocme such players, espically if the want to contribute to making it a great town by putting time into ways to create player draws. Id recomend paxlair or the Bear Tavern. They have a lot of people willing to give both time and money to it and are open to the community.

As to the first, it really depends on the individual. Most towns are going to be ghost towns with no one ever going to them outside those that live in them. This is ok if its meant to be a private area for friends and family or a guild.

But if you want a town people cone to you have to give them a reason. The more reasons the better. Personally? I dont want to spend my time trying to do that. Other people enjoy it.

It also helps if you go that route to have help. More peopke means more attractions, splitting the work, and as time goes on if one person is doing it solo they may burn out and your left with a ghost town

To get other people involved roll the dice. People often want to see more then just words. Come up with good idead, unique ideas. Create some show and tell items.. A website maybe.. Or document outlines. The more you can flush out the better but also leave room for input, change, and new ideas. Then invite people.

They will see your serious, you put work into it, and some that are looking to join something that like what you have will climb on board.

Heh.. Doing drawings, prizes, contests, etc always help. Peopke like free stuff and people will look at your stuff if they might get an account or store item.. But that means more money.. And while it can help its not necessarily required.

Those are my opinions, please dont take them as being perfect or anything. Others may disagree with some or take them as junk.

I personally think that player towns are going to be forgotten wastelands of dustbunnies and tumble weeds, EXCEPT for a select few that have huge resources in terms of both time from other players, and maybe money. And them those will be rife with politics and drama by default. Good for some, but not my cup of tea.

Can you build a town that people want to spend money to rent lots for gold?? YES... But its going to take a lot of work. And it will never end.. You have to choose that doing that is part of what you want from the game.

Getting other people to climb on board such a project helps in terms of delegation, other people making it work. It will do better and reduce you work load, but you wont ever get rid of the need to do work for it.

The pinnacle examples of success would be bear tavern and paxlair.. Tons of people doing work and attractions.. Player quests, councils, mazes. Pvp tournaments, etc.. People also donate money and even houses and lot deeds. But... Look at how hard Vallas and Winifield work to manage it, coordinate it, and market it.

Thats the extreme max side.. You could go smaller and have it be worthwhile, but the work while maybe less is still going to be needed.

So it comes down to two factors:

Do i have the leadership skills?

Am i ok if i have to spend my friday night handling a bad situation, trying to make everyone happy, and mitigating bad press - instead of going on that dungeon crawl i planned on doing?

If you can answer yes to both those questions... Then its just a matter if proving it to people, and they will join you.

I know i could do it, but the answer to the second question is NO. Been there, done it.. I dont even want to be in that position with anyone else and for me i wont touch player towns with a 10' pole.. But thats a personal thing, not because they are bad for all.. They are just bad for me.

 

You are not making an investment you are crowd funding the games development. Why would anyone want to pay rent through the system ( on a add on shop land deed) then get taxed again by a player who can just revoke their rights when they choose and kick them out of town.

 

I'm with the crew here who says no game system for rent collecting in player towns. If you want rent on your player town, role playing a tax collector sounded like the good answer to me. Keep it down right personal. Make the land lord have to face their tenants, and in the process be able to explain to the tenants what they get for their rent (given that there will be plenty of other lots to take eventually). Don't depersonalize it with a game system that just collects for the owner blindly.

 

Hi,

To be clear - As I understand if you buy a town property like a holdfast you don't get the deeds for lots for the holdfast - you would need to buy them seperately, apart from the NPC owned buildings. So the only way to get more lots, apart from those in Your Pledges, is to buy them from the Add-On store, right?

This would mean that with a Lord-Level Pledge I would be able to use only the 1xtown and 1xrow plots I got with the Pledge, but the rest of my holdfast would rely on other players or NPCs coming to live there.


Since I bought a holdfast I am hoping the devs will populate it with NPCs so that it doesn't look like an empty parking lot while I wait for people to come and stay.
Then as I get real player tenants I could evict the NPCs (and also if real players abandon their lots I could ask NPCs to come back?) - that way even my little holdfast would seem bustling.

Better for immersion I think?

Del

 

Great response, i thank you.

"I know i could do it, but the answer to the second question is NO. Been there, done it.." As have i in game and similar in real life both at work and volunteer organisations. I've had my fill. For me, it is likely best to be a no drama member of someone else city. Thanks again for your wise advise.

 

Correct. Or just buy more pledges (if you wanted more tax-free house lots).

Great idea. I don't know if that is possible to phase out NPCs at a later date when PC move in. I do know that when you have your meeting this fall with the Devs on your holdfast layout you can specify the NPCs then.

 

This is a fascinating topic and one which has already been debated, and one which will come up again and again. My response below (brace yourselves) is mainly for Stile and mbomber, but it also covers many others points raised in this thread including the OP.

Stile is worth listening to. He's been here from the beginning and shown to have well thought out responses. I have a long private message with him going over various game ideas. So it is worth respecting his opinion. Stile and the "Teckel" family also have a good chunk in pledge money too. So definitely dont take his words are idol fear mongering.

I think he could be right about ghost towns too. There are a lot of players who have bought or want to buy a town. And that's only the ones who have publicly stated it. My fear is that there is too much interest here. Certainly for the current player base.

Paxlair is one of the most promising towns in sota. They also have a decade and a half of history. Paxlair has already been purchased, they aren't looking for investment. Nor do I believe they will be so active in lot trading. They have a heavy focus on RP and being a tight knit community. Paxlair want the right player, not any player. That's my understanding of it. Winfield is a great guy building a great town.

Berans Reach (Bear Tavern) have been around since the start of sota. The tavern wasn't built in a day. I believe they are still taking lot applications and I suspect they will have a busy / popular town.

That said I have to add a huge "but" to this diatribe of mine. Stile is more negative on player towns than many others. There are other player towns, some of which may be successful. I dont know how many are seeking or will be seeking active investment. That said none of us can be sure that any of the player towns currently on offer will be the most popular sota player-run town ever.


Investment
As an investor into a town you obviously accept some risk that it might not work. You do your own research on the town idea / owner and prospective citizens.

What do you get in return? What benefits are there?

There are the in-game benefits and the potential financial reward from resale of property or from rent. There is no guarantee if either, certainly not rent for real dollars. But it is possible.

In-game rewards

• Chance to avoid the landrush by choosing a lot. There is also a chance that you get a strategically valuable spot in the player-town too. Pledging early to a town likely helps with that. @LordGorynych has done that in "Jat-town". I'm positively excited by this. I've seen his threads in the player marketplace and consider him to be a potential heavyweight in-game entrepreneur.
• Chance to contribute ideas to a player-towns. These towns will hopefully be here for as long as the game exists. You have a chance to make your mark by taking part. For "Jat-town" I'm intending to publish a book with the names of all the backers.

Financial rewards
Could you accept in game gold for rent? Then consider selling those for real dollars later?

Sounds like quite a risk? I agree. The high pledge levels in this game require a lot of dedication / hope / risk. As you know I've already put a couple thousand into starting a town. Have to admit that I'm also "worried" about possible return from investment but I accept the risk. Part of the return is the fun from creating and doing something cool.

Winfield said to me that he doesn't expect to fill his town in the first episode. He won't even try to. I take heed from that and acknowledge that my town may not be full in ep1 either but that's perfectly fine. Its a marathon not a sprint.

 

To "avoid the landrush" is reason enough for me to invest in your town. I found your thread just a wee bit after this one. I really like your vision for the city and am sure i will be quite comfortable there.

Im curious about the prices of property deeds in the add on store compared to the cost of player owned towns. Why is one city lot more than a holdfast? It is not even tax free. What is the benefit of having a larger city lot ? Im sure i read you can only build one house on it.

 

I suspect that there is some sort of mispricing there. It shouldn't be a surprise by now that items will be mispriced. I say this as we saw it with the original price of the Baron and B2 pledge prices, and then latterly with the B3 and Duke pledge values. House lots came first and towns came second.

The player towns give you the option to build, not the right to build. While a house lot will give you the right to build something.

The devs likely have some formula for calculating the price of the housing lots, and a different formula for calculating the price of the player towns. I suspect the two formulas don't have any real overlap. The original price of the player-towns had the cost of the lots included (not just the keys), so the prices were tens of thousands. That formula was probably far closer to the formula for the price of housing lots. Now that player towns have had the actual lots removed and prices recalculated we are now seeing a mismatch. My feeling on this is that house lots are relatively overpriced while towns are underpriced.

If you compare the price of an add-on store lot to a pledge value then sure it is a lot cheaper, but the store lot isn't tax free. There is no obvious only one benefit to buying a lot from the add-on store: no in-game cost to purchase the lot. So there is some convenience. An interesting post from Mishri highlighted that tax free lots inside of pledges are probably also relatively overpriced. He argued that the cost of buying a house in-game and paying the in-game taxes is likely to be far shy of the cost of a pledge. The benefit of the pledges is of course the possibility of coming early in the land rush (plus the other pledge benefits of course).

Towns on the otherhand, don't directly provide a place to live. You could buy a low valued pledge level (without a house) then purchase a holdfast. You could then purchase a house in-game and place it in the holdfast. That would be a very cheap option to potentially having several lots and even a city lot. This city lot will have an in-game cost but we don't know what that is yet.

 

And what about the guy who is in a different timezone from the city owner? Should in-game towns have RL timezones? Forcing a rent pay interaction is fun for no one, efficient for no one, convenient for no one and benefits no one.

I'm pondering a town and have no intention of charging rent, but I don't see any reason why my preferences should constrain others. The tax code is already in place. Dev time to produce this should be small. Those who don't wish to use it ... just don't use it.

 

A very good point you raise. I'm in Japan and tend not to be online when most of my friends play games. I really don't have much time to play anyways, i'm too busy working; players such as myself are able to make significant contributions (I'm well over $10,000 to Star Citizen) to game development but could benefit from in game revenue generation and conveniences. "role playing a tax collector" Are you joking? If so it is worth a chuckle but if your serious your idea of game enjoyment vastly differs from my own. I like to leave work behind me when i escape into online games, far far behind.

 

Thank you for the kind words , they mean a lot to me.

Id just add i woukdnt really say I'm negative on them. Just more they arent for me.

I think for some people they are a good choice. Im glad we have them to raise funds. It helps me get better placement choices in game (i hope!). It also adds more housing to the game for people.

I think they are good. I just think some are expecting to get more from them then they will.

For those that consider what they want to get from it, what that will take to make happen, and decide they are capable and willing to do that, A+!!! Yourself, bearns reach, paxlair are all some that are doing this and they are a good choice. I think there will be other smaller ones that do well- im just not sure which those will be

lord Baldrith has a holdfast and i believe hell be happy with it. He wants a quiet place of friends and family to have their houses at and to use as a home base. Not expecting to get much more then that out of it, so thats cool.

They have pros and cons and i think some people get excited, just see the pros, run out and buy one without really looking at the full picture.

If they fit a persons personal preference then im all for them. I just know for me they dont and im honest about why, but my whys aren't things that would concern others

Im also carefull to not say never.. Someday i might see that a town is doing well in the ways id like. Doesnt have any drama or politics. Id feel confident about not loosing my spot in it due to a falling out with owners. And there was a spot for me, i might be willing to move into one. I dont think so but im not going to say never!

I think what i want out of housing and for my plans ill be much happier not in them. For others i think they are right up their alley and they should dig into them with a passion!!

 

You are always welcome to Sawtooth Hollow my friend! Muhahaha!

 

This is my first mention of this I pledged lord Marshall and purchased a hamlet size town. Im brain storming with a real life friend a fort/outpost theme. Currently were thinking no rent. Ive spent what I feel is alot of cash and I have thought about rent. My wife and I as well as friends agree we prefer to have similar interest players live in our town. Rent would be free unless something in game changes dynamics. If we decided to create a guild maybe then more of a collection system to fund town decor or improvements not manditory. I will reserve the right over exterior looks, like devs have mentioned no pink flamengos lol. I really hope we can do sieges, mini events, music etc so many interesting aspects to this, I agree with others posting above community efforts will make or break towns. I dont for see rent being viable in this game as the uo days in my time there.

I think with my town and resources, as well as my wifes account being a knight level pledge, we can have far more fun just enjoying the game with like minded individuals. I prefer mature casual play styles who dont rage over everthing, willing to help players just have fun. Renting could cause alot of variety, town mix of players I imagine but I see many headaches as well.

Our in game names are Silverglade Sunrunner and Kintari Sunrunner look us up after release hangout visit etc. I guess overall I would be more picky about player quality vs cash equity of assets.

Not trying to steal the ops thunder just putting in my. 02.

 

A thought just came to me and i figured I'd share it: renting storage space.

A problem at the moment is that many people want to be landlords but I don't see too many who want to rent. I've suggested that players could rent a room or a house for a temporary period in a strategic location. But few have indicated that they would do that.

However, if players don't want to use rent housing to live in this way (strategic location etc) could they be interested in renting space to store items?

The following is a brief list of factors which will contribute (positive) or detract (negative) to the success of this idea:


Contributing factors

• Houses have limited storage space. Hence the need to rent more space.
• This could be about having resources held at strategic locations.
• House likely to have lockable doors. Therefore the whole house does not need to be a single storage unit. Owner could live there too.

Detracting factors

• Less attractive if banks offer limitless depositing if items.
• Alts / Mule accounts provide additional space.
• Trusting other players with your items. That said, I've discussed numerous ways to build trust on my guild website.

 

If there is demand and we have housing options that have decent amounts of rooms, ill have an inn that is dedicated solely to the renting of rooms to players for gold.

Ill also provide all 10 crafting stations (might need some time on this), a hot tub and other things people that would normally have a home might want to be able to use. All outside or on the roof.

Will be a Town lot (unless something causes me to decide differently on that). It is called the Slumbering Doxin inn.

The basement will be a community Tavern set up in an arena basement as a sort of underground speakeasy for outlanders.

The web site is still not a 100% done but getting closer.

Http//www.thecaverns.net/speakeasy

 

Looks good. Is that WordPress you are using? Looked good on my phone.

We chatted about renting for in-game gold before. It is probably the easiest option for the largest number of players.

I've still to figure out how to do a tavern in my town. Considering if / where to place an NPC building for that purpose.

 

Yes to wordpress. Its just by far the most flexible option with the most options overall around imo. Although i will (and do) a lot of coding on stuff as needed.

The site has some bugs but the theme author has an update pending distribution approval that should resolve them all.. Or ill recode whats left after. I like the theme for this particular project so am trying to not have to ditch it

I still have several things to add to the site as of yet also, including investigating software possibilities for some things id like to do. Either as plugins or as 3rd party i link up to.

I actually dont find much time to work on it in my "project time" as its low priority since the game wont come out for a long while.

My most recent addition was integration of chaleonge embedded functionality on the site

I dont know if there will be demand in game for renting rooms or not. If there is its a nice way to make a little extra gold, and help out people without a house at the same time.

If theres not... Heh - not sure what ill do with the house. Unless i get a new idea for a project im already covered on housing. Even a city lot for guild members to use. So i might just leave it as an inn setup in terms of rp/decoration and use it for inventory overflow.. Regardless the tavern will stay set up underneath. Hmm unless i decide to move the tavern to underneath the guild house but my thought is a guild doesnt want to have a public tavern under neath

Lot of stuff to finalize with a long time to go before then, but ill have stuff set up as far as websites tho, so my focus can be on the in game side and not on creating sites

For all the projects ive done and tackled out of game... I have just as many planned for in game and i add to my notes and ideas all the time

Going to be fun!