Taxes: Why all POT's will have them.

So just reading through the thoughts on this thread, well just another thought is: many town owners didn't purchase their towns as a resource. The town for them is not the resource, there is nothing to fail, just friends and family living and having fun ingame doing whatever they want to do in the game. To try to force a game mechanic in place isn't the answer. Many do not feel the way you do about this subject. This is not what the game is about.
I have never been money hungry in a game, I guess that's why I am poor usually, but I still have fun. Town owners that don't want their town to be considered a resource are not going fail, they will just be whatever they will be to the owners of that town. I'm sure
they have other ideas and don't want someone dictating what that experience should or would be for them. It seems like it just ideas are thought up, I understand this, but the thread is coming across to me as this could happen, which makes no sense if someone doesn't see it the same way. Well speaking as a family holdfast owner of course .

 

I guess it all depends on perspective. If you are in the game for money, and to make profit in real dollars, you have to stick to your business plan. In my opinion it does nothing for the game with that type of perspective. I purchased my crossroads for the sole benefit of providing a role playing place for good and evil forces to meet. That is my scenario. I do not expect any income or monetary compensation from anyone else. I want to have fun, and I want to provide fun. I gave my funds willingly to portelarium for development of the game and for the betterment of the community. I did not consider this a monetary investment but an investment for my future time spent with like minded people. Why should anyone feel like they should compensate me for my donations to this game. I do not give to the salvation army and expect a return. This game is a dream for many people and an investment for a few, and I hope that it does not put a blight on the future. This of course is just my opinion. I might set up donations from time to time if we have a goal set for something we think the crossroads needs, but by no means will I force anyone to pay. Most people will give a little, some will not, its just the way it is.

 

majoria70, I'm not trying to force game mechanics.

I also realize that for some town owners they're not trying to do anything but "own a town" and let friends and family hang out there. That's not a very high bar for success, but it doesn't invalidate their towns in any way. I'm not trying to say that those towns will be failures. What I'm really trying to say is that those towns will be generally "look" dead and no one will be going there to see their friends and family log in on the weekend for two hours. We already see that going on now in pre-alpha. Rarely have I gone to a town in pre-alpha that didn't look and feel completely dead. This is understandable, but it's also something that I believe will hurt the game very quickly after launch.

This shouldn't concern those town owners in the least unless of course they had plans to fill their town with lively people that are both active and adding value to the town beyond just claiming a lot or casually participating in "town events". That's all fine and good, but seriously, who's going to fill in all these extra lots? There are no many people that have 40+ friends and family that will be online for long periods of time.

This means that strangers and "the masses" will fill that gap very quickly. So the point I'm making is that town owners are going to have to decide who's worth keeping and who's worth kicking. How do they do that? Well they could just "use their gut", sure. But perhaps a more fair way, and a more logical way, would be to create a system that both tracks their activeness and usefulness...I say that's a tax. (be it gold or something else)

 

careful about wishing all those things that are supposed to make the game immersive. If only one mandatory element (my concern open pvp and fighting in itself) is missing it will make everything else much less credible and attractive. UO was very simple and is STILL better than ANY other mmo! Not sure the devs realise how good it actually was...

 

I believe that the Baron has stated that his town will be open pvp, as will Sawtooth hollow, If that helps at all

 

My response to majoria70 is the same one I would give to you. I'm also a town owner, but I don't have plans to let anyone else live in my town but me. So I totally understand the idea behind not making a profit!

But it's really not about perspective on a macro level. If you have an empty lot and you fill it with someone that you later decide is not a good fit for your town you'll kick them right? Well I say that's the tax. I say that whatever you were asking them to do (be nice?) was the tax. You're defining the rate as "I decide what's nice and what's not" but it's still a tax. This has an impact on the whole economy because while lots in the game may not be available elsewhere, your lots might be open for those nice enough to afford them. But a secondary byproduct of this is that players that want to live there and would be willing to pay you for the privilege in gold or some other currency you're not interested in, will not have that opportunity.

This will raise the cost of housing in New Britannia and eventually lead to people being nicer or more player towns being created to fill the void between those that have no interest in your version of nice and paying extremely high rights of in-game gold. You as an individual town owner don't need to care about this if you don't want to grow your town or if you don't care if it's dead. But if you want to keep it from looking dead or growing, you (town owners) should probably figure out what I'm talking about.

 

Hi Baron, lol oh no please don't track me. Many people have their towns for privacy and do not want to be involved in the land rush. It is a place to live, not to worry about hassles and just do not care if the town is a success or not from somone elses outlook. It's not to say they won't be enjoying the crafting, exploring fishing, and all the features of our marvelous game will have, but no we do not care about the politics, we just don't care. If we want to be sociable, we will be, if not then we won't be. So I don't see this town thing the way you do. Just saying

 

Drocis: My little Holdfast is about 90% full. Many of the lots are my own. The rest of the lots are of my friends and family. I purposely want a few extra for expansion for friends and family and myself.

I measure 'success' by having fun, having a place to live, and enjoying the game. I do not see how it would hurt the game if a POT isn't making a bunch of money and some kind of hub for the economy...I mean there's already going to be game created towns that do that. I will do my businesses and crafting in my town and have fun doing it. I don't have expectations to become rich, only expect to have fun.

I, as Majoria70 do not get rich in games either. I make enough to do what I want to do.

I think POTs are going to be a new place for someone to see in game...if it's a booming, life-filled town or not, shouldn't effect how the game is. Some towns are more alive than others. Like when you visit a town of the dead and all you see are broken down buildings and maybe a ghost or two will attack you...

If I am measuring the success and fun of my game by how rich my character becomes...well perhaps I should just do that in RL instead

 

not really but thanks lol

 

@Lord Baldrith

This doesn't have much to do with the measure of success in that sense. You're telling me you don't care what other people think of your town and measure your success in ways that only you and perhaps others of your mindset can understand. I respect that. (and I share some of that with you)

I'm trying to talk to town owners that care. This discussion is aimed at them.

 

Haha...In a way, I don't care what people think of my town. I do want it to be a fun place for someone to discover and perhaps hang out. I am looking forward to having ice fishing in my town (if allowed). I am also planning on having a very nice carpentry shop. I hope I can develop a character reputation for quality crafting which would naturally draw people to my town.

My point is...the charging or not charging of taxes, IMO, will not impact the success or failure of a town. I plan on covering all charges needed for my own POT. If people living there want to help they can. If they add things to the game to purchase for my town big YAY, because I will have something else to spend my money on. I love things to strive for in game.

I will be on this game probably 40 hours a week or more, as I know I will love it like I loved UO.

 

I'm looking forward to visiting everyone's town, yours included. But a question to ponder, is there any way your town could fail? Based on your criteria I don't think there is a way. Although I understand this (and to some degree I agree with it), it doesn't seem like a realistic version of how these games work. There will be towns that are dead and just taking up space. We can agree on that, can't we?

So what makes those towns unlike yours or mine? Based on your criteria, there's no such thing as a failed town.

 

I do agree...the definition of a failed town is, to me, a town that goes away because the owner does not log in for whatever amount of time is required before the town is removed and put back in the owners bank...(Is this going to happen?)

Aside from that...it's just like going to a scene on the map that is small, has no creatures...perhaps some deco... But it's still a place to visit...

 

No, I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think Portalarium is going to remove player owned towns ever. If the town owner doesn't log in there could still be players with homes there. I think they'll encourage succession planning in some way, but I doubt they'll force it.

And sure, it might be a nice place to visit, kind of like looking at someone's MOD. But is it going to be a nice place to visit more than once? I don't think so, not for the average player owned ghost town.

 

Good point. I hope you are right. It's true many people will be part of a town even if the town owner has moved on or just didn't log in for extended periods.

And on the subject of Taxes...I have been thinking this...When a town owner has extra taxable lots in the town (from the store)...if it's not paid, what happens? Does the taxed lot get returned so that you can put it down again or is it done a different way for town owners? ... I was thinking about this because some of my lots will be taxed and if I fall short some months and don't pay tax...So? I just re-place my lot again...

 

Captain Jack does think that the topic of this post should have been better thought out, but no doubt it was just click bait anyway.

Ghost towns are a great place to conduct business where otherwise you might not wish to be discovered Captain Jack thinks you should expand your mind past #winning Baron and try your hand at some of the finer aspects of game enjoyment in which this game will have to offer.

 

I agree that's probably how it would work. I hadn't thought about it like that before. It's kind of a tax shelter.

Of course, I think you'd have to redecorate everything when you got back online again, but that's a small price to pay and for many people they may actually like that part of the game the most.

You'd also have the bare lots sitting out in your town and that's a sign of blight in this game. So the town might take a small reputation hit. But if you're a town owner that doesn't care about any of that, so what?

 

I stand by the OP. The opening sentence being 'Many Player Owned Town (POT) owners claim they will have no taxes. I believe this will ultimately prove NOT to be the case."

Time will tell.

 

Probably it would make sense to form a town board/committee, and the town owner just ultimate control in that he can make unilateral decisions, or veto things, or remove people from the committee.. but in case he cant participate it falls to them

 

Well, it's the deed that determines the tax status, not the lot. So if you are a POT owner and someone (or you) uses a taxed deed on the lot and doesn't pay the taxes in time, the lot will decay and go empty. Until the deed owner pays off the overdue tax, he can't use the deed. As a POT owner, you now have an empty lot that someone else (or yourself) can use another deed that has no overdue taxes, or is just tax free.