Penalize blue healers

If i attack someone flagged PvP and a non-PvP tagged person heals them, they should be insta flagged PvP as well.

 

i disagree, and here's why.

I've seen people spawn camp. it is a dishonorable kill, and they need to be taught a lesson. the community needs to police people who do that, not the devs.

i understand the frustration from people who are engaged in pvp in an open world, they do not want pve'ers to interfere with their pvp...think about it from the other perspective: those that do not pvp, probably would not want a fight breaking loose around them, like that..it disrupts their calm. but that's what the open world means. both sides have to deal with it. if you do not want people interfering in your pvp, take your pvp out of the skill trainer, and crafting areas. there are even arenas you can enter for this very purpose, so it is out of the way of the common pve'ers, which also means they do not interfere.


i've been one to heal the pvp'ers who are fighting those who are committing those dishonorable kills, and as far as I'm concerned, it is well deserved. - i've been called a P%$@y in a private tell for doing so - in which i report them for harassment. it is all a part of the game design at this point - if they do not like the mechanic, they're free to go somewhere that will cater to only pvp'ers. there's a LOT more that goes on in this game than PVP, so the devs are not going to cater strictly to them. they'd miss out on all the incoming cabbage from the hardcore role player community, and those that just love crafting, and even the fringe players who do odd things like try to live a peaceful life, without committing ANY sort of violence. ever.

besides, it adds to the chaos, and that is NOT a bad thing.

 

Devs are aware of this and will address this at some point.

Regarding fighting in towns, this will be mitigated to some degree by guards. Open PvP has been defined as being able to fight anywhere, but it will come at some cost for doing so. This was called out in the original Megapost:

If players wish to intervene, they need to flag themselves Open PvP. In any case, the guards will take care of the commotion. At least in "lawful" towns anyways.

 

If a player doesn't want to be spawn camped or killed in any other way...they can drop their PvP tag. It's that simple. It's good to hear the matter will be resolved by devs. I think its equally as dishonorable to blue heal. That guy you're trying to defend may have done that same thing himself previously and is now being paid back. If you don't want to PvP, then don't PvP.

 

remember that the pvp flagged person may not always be involved in the blues decision to heal them, I know I for one have backed out of a combat not because they were getting healed by a blue but because I was. Of coarse if I know the person is responsible for a trainer attack or rez killing I'm not turning down the assistance! I just don't understand how someone can stab someone in the back and then complain about the retribution.

 

I do not understand this either and I have experienced this several tiems this release. Attack when you are making new deck or buying items are really annoying.

 

So......you have two PvPers engaging in PvP (whether one is ready or not....they flagged it, then it is their choice). How can you possibly find it acceptable for a non-pvper to get involved by healing without there being any kind of implication. If you want to be involved then you should be flagged. If you dont want the risk of being attacked then don't flag PvP and DON'T start interfering in PvP matters!

.....and its that simple.

 

A non PvP-flagged player should not be able to heal a PvP-flagged in the first place.

 

I think the bottom line is this can be used for griefing. You're talking about fights going on with people not interested in PvP at all stepping in and healing. But two PvPers could easily go around, with one of them simply flagged non-PvP so he can't be hurt, and use that for griefing purposes.

Saying that's okay is basically saying open PvPers should put up with being griefed, which is silly.

 

I've already encountered this, I did kill the flagged person anyway but had they been better players I'd have been screwed as i was alone.

 

That's ridiculous as well. What if a PvP person wants to farm monsters with his non-PvP friend? The friend can't heal in that situation? This should be about choices. In a PvE situation, i would imagine the friend would choose to heal his mate 100% of the time. In PvP, it may be different. But if he does choose to heal him in PvP, he basically opted in to PvP for that particular encounter (maybe he's only flagged for a couple minutes?) and should be subject to the consequences. I simply can't understand why people don't want gamers to have choices (whether good or bad) -- it seriously limits the game in so many ways.

Stop relying on the devs to code every single aspect of the game just so you don't have to make a tough decision.

 

Yea, but for the same reason, he can't be insta-flagged PvP just for helping someone marked PvP. If you healed PvP friend during PvE combat, you'd become flagged PvP.

It would have to apply explicitly to an ongoing PvP situation... in that case, both methods would work... disallowing healing PvPers during a PvP situation, or penalizing them for helping. But even then, there's an out, if a person can get out of combat mode long enough for the PvP situation to no longer be operative.

 

Choices, choices, choices. Unlike you, i want more of them...not less. In a mixed scenario, you better be on your toes. I don't expect non-PvPers to PvP, but i do expect them to turn off the easy button.

 

Not sure what you think my views on this subject are Murdock.

 

I'm assuming here you plan to flag yourself in PvP mode?

 

I'm hoping there is a virtue aspect to this. The game knows what "state" you're in when you're attacked. The Oracle is watching.

Plus, it was one of my top annoyances, where you aren't broken out of that mode immediately upon attack. That's how I was ganked too.

I believe in the current definition of Open PvP -- attack/be attacked anywhere, at any time. If the devs want to change that definition to exclude NPC towns, I will support that decision (after a healthy debate on the reasoning of course ).

NPC towns are free and open to all play styles. Player Owned Towns (POTs) have been considered curated ones, but I am challenging this notion in regards to Open PvP. I posed this question for one of the hangouts in tomorrow's telethon to seek clarification on POTs and Open PvP / PvP-zone flagging.

I'm hopeful that the solutions to fighting in towns, be they NPC towns or POTs, will be a mix of guards, virtue impact, vendors in that town raising prices / not selling to you perhaps, etc. I agree that Open PvP in populated areas (especially towns) should not be taken lightly and it is a choice the combatants have made to disrupt the activities in the town with their fighting -- especially much more so for the initiating attacker. But as with all things, the issue is more complex than that, for example such as Duels. Are they also disruptive and should be punished / banned from towns?

 

@smack,

I think the Open PvP experience should have both ways for the player to keep safe and also consequences for bad behavior. The better it works, and the less griefing is enabled, the more people will flag for it. That should be the goal, IMO, rather than having an attitude that Open PvPers should just accept the griefing.

 

So I've been in most of these situations, except the griefer one.
I thought some about this.

Problems that we see are somewhat because the PvP system is not finished so there are plenty of things the devs have spoken of but which is not yet implemented.
One of those is a "player fight" buff timer so that you cannot escape PvP by exiting etc to nonPvP zone or unflagging. The proposal below counts on this being implemented.

But in the different scenarios where a PVE can interfere in the PvP fight it is simply too easy to exploit. We need to put in some limitations to this or it will be a griefer feature.
So I don't think that we can keep blue healers helping out PvPrs without some limitations.


My proposal centers around mixed groups, ie friends who are both PvP and PVE. But also aim to address griefing in compromising situations like skill trainer, crafting or such.

In this scenario my proposal is to use the Party function as a divider for PVE and PvP.
The flag of the party leader is used by all in the party. By joining you get the flag of the leader.
If you are not flagged and are about to join a PvP flagged party you get a warning about flag change.
If you are flagged and try to join a PVE party you also get a warning, AND you are not allowed to join if you have the "player fight" buff ie if you recently fought PvP you are not allowed unflagging for a set time.

I also suggest a (not yet existing) difference between "in-the-wild" and "in-civilization" based on the scene.

Scenario A
in-the-wild
Here you are not allowed to heal between flags. If you are not flagged as PvP you cannot heal PvPrs. PvPrs can heal PVErs.
You cannot /leave a party if you have the "player fight" buff.
So if a mix of friends head into the wild - use the Party feature and the leader's flag sets the group flag.

Scenario B
In-civilization (this is for civilized towns with guards etc - not dangerous places - POTs can decide which they are)
Here anyone can heal anyone, but if a non flagged heals a flagged player, the flagged player gets a buff in def and a debuff in dmg. This buff/debuff is cumulative so that the more heals you receive the less damage you do.

Yes, this means that in-civilization PVE can grief PvP so that the PvP becomes an exercise in futility where neither side can do any damage.


Conclusion;
This means that the difference becomes intuitive and easy to use.
In the wild PvP takes precedence, in civilization PVE takes precedence.

If a mixed group is heading out into the wild they have to decide if they want to do that as flagged or not collectively.

If PVE in civilization see griefer behavior they can simply spam them with heals making the PvP go elsewhere. This is particularly good for events etc, just have a couple of healing rains going to cool things down.

And we prevent blue healers ruining the fun of PvP excitement in the wild.

That is my proposal at least.

 

Yeah.. letting non tagged players heal pvp fighers sounds like it would be heavily abused. Healers would just run around non tagged and be able to heal without being hurt.

On the other hand a non taged should be able to aid their tagged friends in pve situations.

I think a simple fix would be to have a heal fizzle if it is casted by a non flagged player onto a pvp flagged player that is currently active in pvp combat. The oracle could be at work here too.


Have not done any pvp but if it works like pve where you stay in combat mode untill you are clear of danger. If so then maybe they can have one more piece of information that states if the person is in combat do to pve or pvp. And if it is pvp then non flagged heals would fizzle.

 

Absolutely, i've been getting destroyed this release by higher levels. but it's so trivial because there's no risk (thats a whole 'nother rant entirely). But the more you suffer in practice...