POT Choice to remove Single Player Online Mode

My point: In cases where story matters, they do this, they force a mode depending on the content they desire to deliver. There is a logic here. But a POT is void of the dev provided story.

The issue you have brought to the table is not POT exclusive. Either they are have internal plans for handling this or it's working as intended.

Going to have to give up on my lazy streak and go hunt down their reason for allowing Shardfall SPO.

 

I don't assume they have a plan or it's working as intended. I don't assume it's not either. I just know it's a problem that needs fixin.

Their reason is that they don't want to take away "content" from people because of their playing style. But in the case of PVP POTs, this isn't "content" it's my town, I paid for, where I'm in charge. And it's a PVP town, where there's not supposed to be any PVE.

So what's the content they're missing out on? Exploiting my town?

 

Offline, SPO, FPO, and OPO are fully integrated. In no way is it an exploit to use them. Using SPO to access vendors or explore (scout) is working as they have described it.

The devs have given a full go ahead to SPO for PvP zones. Seems like a conflict of interest. I understand the real money investment but I also see how the devs might not think this is not an issue at all.

I also see this as a wait and see issue that could easily be toggled later.

 

Ristra, just realize for a moment that PVP means player vs. player. How the heck can someone PVP in single player mode?

Look, I get it...pvp is often a mixed bag of customer support issues and balancing challenges. There's almost no money in it, and people never seem to be satisfied with what developers do. I can't change that. But for god's sake, it's MY POT, and if people don't want to go there because it's pvp ONLY and not single player mode, well then I guess I spent all that money for a glorified metropolis lot. But good holy jebus, let me have that opportunity. Why in the world would we make a game where someone pays all this money for a pvp POT and then we let people that could care less about pvp ruin the whole damn thing?

Please someone wake me up from this horrible dream.

 

No reason for frustration. I can see your logic but are you seeing mine? Vetting a topic is handy at this point in the testing. My view is not more correct than yours.

SPO isn't PvP not matter what zone. You can't force anyone to PvP and you claim to have a no ban policy. This would be a ban when the devs have given the go ahead for SPO in PvP zones. SPO exists for all other PvP zones.

Again, if there is a true exploit, they will make adjustments but I would assume they will do that for all full PvP zones.

 

It's certainly not a ban of players to disable SPO in my PVP POT. It's just a rule set, if you want to enter my PVP POT you have to agree to play in multplayer where pvp exists.

 

Drocis, impose somthing like that on your PoT and no one will want to live there.

A person will live in a PvP area because they want to PvP..........but just because they live PvP doesn't mean to say they want to be doing it all of the time.

I guarantee that many PvPers will grind their skills in single player.....they really won't like the idea of having to change modes just to access their house.

What you are asking for is somthing that could well result in destroying PvP PoTs and for that reason I really hope you don't get your way. Running a PvP PoT comes with a lot of responsibility due to the type of personalities you have to deal with.......with all due respect your not a PvPer yourself and I'm not convinced you understand PvP mentality and the way in which they play.

If your idea is put in place as an option and you impose it.........your PoT will fail
If your idea is imposed on all PvP PoTs then they will all fail and just become arenas..........I won't be a happy chap.

 

Drocis If you are trying to create a stressful environment due to navigation and the vast number of lots and don't want people to ninja the trek in spo I get that.. but if its just to force someone blocked who isn't interested in PvP not to enter as it was stated several times I won't effect anything except someone potentially making more vender cash..

You might ask for a crazy entrance mechanic that would play on keeping it tough to navigate even in spo mode .. if you are randomly put somewhere on the map .

 

Then they can go outside my POT to go back into single player mode.

They wouldn't have to change modes, it would automatically happen as they zoned into my POT.

Interesting that I'm not a pvper but own the largest PVP POT in the game. I wonder why that is? Envy, I don't know what your motivation is for this. I'm talking about a rule set for my POT, not yours. You do whatever you want in your POT, let me do what I want in mine. Also, you're not the authority on PVP, I'm sure we'll meet in game over the next few years and you let me know how much of a pvper I am, after you've had a better sample size and can make that call, ok?

Btw, how many non-pvp POTs do you own? I have 3 POTs all connected to Rats Nest and they're all PVP. I may have as many as 777 lots available for PVP, so I guess I'll be not really pvping in those - good to know.

Great, thanks for the unsolicited advice. Maybe I'd rather fail having a chance for REAL pvp, than succeed having this fake pvp that people are so fond of. I love the idea of being in a ghost town that still forces all that enter to be on the same playing field.

I'm not asking for other POTs to do what I'm doing. That's a decision for each POT owner to make, and I'm not in the business of giving unsolicited advice.

 

I'm not trying to block single player mode for the heck of it. I need to blocked so PVP actually works as intended.

It's like this, if you go see a Football game, you stay in the stands and you don't go out on to the field during the game. This is for several reasons, but the first one is the game's integrity. The players have to be on the same playing field as their opponents. We don't tell the New England Patriots that they can go into "Single Player Mode" and explore the field while the other team can't see them, and then jump back into multiplayer mode when it's convenient. Nor do we allow spectators to influence the game while taking no risk and breaking the rules of competitive play.

PVP requires a playing environment that is equally hard for everyone involved, otherwise players will min/max whatever part of the game is easiest to avoid risk and get max reward. That's what single player mode is to pvp, it's an exploit. Again, I'm not trying to point my finger at people that just want a casual game with casual pvp, to each their own. But Rats Nest is not about that, Rats Nest is much more than that, and if you're not willing to let go of single player mode to visit Rats Nest, then that's a choice you're free to make. But no one should be telling me how to design my POT in this regard. Rats Nest wasn't built for PVE or casual exploration. It was built for PVP, the real stuff, not "I'm going to dip my toe in the water and pretend this is how to pvp".

 

SPO will not break your POT. Poor PvP will. Blocking SPO will break SPO.

 

Why should people that don't want to pvp be allowed in my POT? It's a PVP POT.

Why do people get a message that says they have to accept PVP in my POT before entering...but then they're in single player mode? That makes no sense at all.

 

Same reason they get to go into a Shardfall.

 

Perhaps the perspective needs to change here. The concept of "my" is quite problematic. Nothing is fully mine because I donated for it, even a POT. Take a deco example, I would love to be able to stack things greater than 5 levels on MY house lot. The list of things you don't control in your POT is far greater than that which you do.

We all have to "suffer" in some ways to merge various play styles and accommodate other players. No game fully conforms itself to us, unless we develop it ourselves.

You can advocate for your preferences, but you create "suffering" for others when you do so because everyone wants to play differently. That's why there are strong reactions against it.

There is an Ultima virtue that applies to this discussion: humility. It doesn't mean you cease advocating for things you want, but it changes greatly the way you do so.

 

Again, I'm using the term "my" loosely. I'm not demanding anything, but I'm strongly pointing out that as a PVP POT, it doesn't make any sense to have players running around not PVPing. Unlike a Shardfall, my POT is not part of the story, nor is it part of the original kickstarter, nor is it funded by anyone but me. So my opinion on this matter is probably the most relevant. But even so, I'm not saying that the impact of the game overall shouldn't be considered, I'm just saying I don't see a negative impact to the game overall.

POTs, to my understanding, are already out of single player mode, correct? So that's really a non-issue here. It's single-player online mode where the two intersect. For me, that intersection destroys my ability to 1. create the town I want, and 2. enjoy a competitive and fair style of pvp. And it does this for what reason? So people can visit the POT I made and paid for using their playing style that contradicts the reason the town exists in the first place?

Yes, some humility would be a nice change, Vyrin.

When people walk into this forum and say "There should be non-consensual pvp!" I'm the first one to say "no, there shouldn't". But what single-player online folks are doing right now is telling me, a pvper, that I can't even have real PVP in my own POT designed specifically for PVP. That their playing style would be damaged by not being able to go into my PVP POT. For reals? Seriously?

I'm really offended by this. PVP can't exist in a world where people are playing by themselves, so there is no single player pvp playing style to damage. And since the POT is PVP, there's no claim to a single player mode in that POT.

 

Again, please try to realize that "create the town I want" and "competitive and fair style of pvp" are not self-explanatory and need to be nuanced. In a lot of ways you can't create the town you want - you have a palette of limited options that are based on a careful balancing that is done by the devs. Even another PvP POT town owner may want it a different way. Contradictions to each of our favored play styles will abound.

I understand you perspective and what you want. I don't see any problems if the solution Browncoat Jayson suggested is implemented.

The point is that you can advocate for it without all the clutter this tends to get people riled up, and then causes you to continue responding even when you said you weren't.

 

This topic goes along the same lines as the POT owner having the /ban command. So I went and read the posts from DarkStarr. The stance on ownership of the lots and eviction rights is pretty blunt. Evict at will but banning isn't going to stay. Banning a mode though? Don't see why they would allow it.

What the /ban command topic has in common is their stance on not having a ban command shows that open PvP is open PvP even in a POT. The ban command allowed for governing of extra rules enforced on a POT. Without the ban command open PvP can not be altered.

A PvP POT is open PvP not a new set of PvP rules you, the POT owner, get to frame.

 

Yeah, I'm a little bit past that now.

I'm pretty frustrated by the general community here. You have to understand that for me I'm seeing this as people that don't really care about my POT, and don't intend to go there, they just want the option to go there and are ignoring the very real impact to pvp because it doesn't mean anything to them.

I feel like my back is against the wall here. This is actually a global issue, as Ristra correctly pointed out, but I'm not trying to fight that fight here. I'm only trying to fight for my right as a POT owner (and again I use this term loosely) to have a reasonable PVP experience. If I can't find that here in my POT that I've spent so much money on and put so much effort into, then all hope is lost.

Could there be alternatives to disabling single player online mode in my POT? PERHAPS, but I have my doubts that they will be sufficient. Just making people go back to the start of the scene when they change modes is not a real solution. In fact, it would be used as instant travel by some. It's a solution that is fine for single player online folks because they don't plan to change modes or go into a pvp town like mine. But it's not helping the pvp side of things at all.

 

Actually, the way I see that argument is very different. PVE POTs can still ban. It's just PVP POTs that can't. That's the important part of that ruling.

The reason PVP POTs can't ban, even though some PVP POT owners (I'd say the majority) wanted to be able to ban, is because it hurts pvp. The same thing can be said of single player online mode. It hurts pvp.

 

That's a bit up to interpretation. It hurts PvP isn't very specific. My take on it is they are keeping open PvP, open. Open PvP deals with SPO in all zones. For every issue which you can think SPO will hurt your POT it applies to open PvP everywhere.

It is a global issue but they chose to go with allowing SPO still. That's that consistency part again.