Upcoming Economic Balance Changes

adding weight to gold hurts everyone from the poor to the rich.

add weight to gold. you will need to pick what do I save crafting mats or my gold that I need to save to make stuff so I can make gold that I can't keep anyway.
then the adventurer. they will need to pick. so they save gold or have alot of options for gear so they can adjust to the situation. the more gear they buy the less gold they can save so they won't be buying things after awhile...

weight on gold it's very very bad for the economy. if you want the rich to spend their gold they need a reason to spend it. plain and simple. the economy needs to be a circle. gold flows in and out. it does not matter how much gold a few people manage to save up.

 

@Time Lord

I think it is that time of the year again. You should open a new topic for "Currency with Weight and Tiers" so that we can go through the long list of pros/cons again. It was a while since we did that last.

This since I see a lot of arguments based on projection of "worst case scenarios" which isn't consistent with the suggesions from Richard about currency weight.

 

~It's the Usefulness or the Uselessness that Bothers Me~
I haven't seen any use for gold, though I've seen use for things. The only use for gold is to transition one thing into another, because there is no needed retirement system here. If gold is to become actual currency which can be sold for actual cash, then our gold needs to become currency within our add-on store.

Or... we must consume more the stronger and more added skilled we become. Currently there is no outlet for gold at the top which would equal the need of it to become recycled back to the bottom. Without a need rather than a want, gold will continue to stack at the top with no use for it to be there.

So what is the solution? I must have missed it
~Time Lord~

 

A tiered economy with real luxury for the rich. (The ultra rich would never want to shop in the same store as the poor, nor do they shop for the same items = win win).

Which in turn implies real "rares" and a tiered currency which is objects on their own. (Being able to stack coins etc).
But also implies implementing luxury services for the rich.
Where the rares should be both "imports" and "drops" to create a middleclass which cater to the super rich while it employs the poor.

I've written dozens of posts on this and I could dig some up if you want - however this is not the correct topic for that discussion.

 

I agree there is no outlet for top people. that is the challenge of the situation. how to balance the economy.

personally the only thing that makes sense is this.

crafting and adventuring is already split.

so with in the crafting side. there are 3 main branches. limit chrs to only be able to pick 1 of the 3. so they can either be a gatherer, refiner or producer. (they can do anything or everything in the branch they pick)

adjust cotos when used to repair and item. to only repair and item to -10% of the of the max value. and update the max to the -10% number. gear needs to wear out. even the top people will have to replace gear then and spend money

the durability of item drops needs to go up by 10%.

masterworking and enchanting are to random.
loot tables need dropped items that can be used as part of the recipe get a certain bonus. with out the extra crafting mats. the effect can still be random.

because of the overmap there is no reason for people stop in a town to check player vendors. players just run to where ever they intended never seeing the vendor options with in the towns they pass by. so all the main trade in the game happens in few locations and if your unluckey to not have vender options in these location. you sell very little. so something needs to be done to give players a reason to go into other towns.
ideas are
the quest system needs quests to take people to all kinds of different locations. pot, prt, and npc city's

random encounters that could happen anywhere I know if the elfs attacked a pot I would go help defend it. and prolly look at there vendors after.

maybe offer a right click option from the overmap that shows/displays the number of vendors set up and a total number of items listed for sale in the town. if players could see they are not wasting time exploring a town that has no vendors that would help.
********
thanks for reading..

 

The proposed limits to item repair which are intended to solve the relevancy of the crafter are not good solutions. High level (rich) are that way because they play the game and are goal oriented. If their gear starts to decay at an alarming rate, under current conditions they will purchase the mats needed to raise their crafting skills to be self sufficient. Better to make your own gear than to travel the lands to purchase an item for sale that is some compromise as to what you really want. The underlying problem as I see it is envy. Those who are too lazy, or have limited time, or are social butterflies get envious of those who grind their way to self sufficiency. This is a problem that will never go away and trying to solve it will kill the economy. We are caught up in a situation that has played out and is playing out throughout history. Trying to solve this will kill the game. Who are we as a community to believe that we will find the answer that has eluded billions of people through the ages? My personal recommendation is to make real rares appear throughout the game. Crafting rares, adventuring rares, gathering rares, fishing rares, and etc. Finding a really rare and useful item will be available for all players. Selling same can be an economic boon to the poor and the transfer of cash to that lucky poor will start the gold flowing through the economy. Yes, this does not solve the problem as stated above, but in the mean time we will have oodles of people having a blast playing a successful game.

 

free market system! prices will take care of itself and adjust itself accordingly. its real simple if prices are to high people wont buy thus forcing the lowering of prices to stay competitive. The so called 10% aint making money if nobody is buying. Money they making they are forced to earn using alternate methods. Punishing for being successfull is what they doing in real life and it isnt working there either.
Edit: give the top 10% a reason to spend their money instead of holding onto it and it will trickle down to the bottom. Otherwise they just hold onto it and it keeps accumulating. Give them something cool to spend it on

 

On a personal note - I spend a lot of time in the office so following your statement on self sufficiency it would just be fair that I can convert my RL money into gold to compensate for the time I chose not to invest into playing this GAME. (Not to start saying that people spending more time online have no real life or should spend more time making real money in the office - really, no insults to anybody, just a snarky remark)

But to answer your other statement about solving an issue that in real life hasn't been solved - this is a Game and therefore only tied to reality as much as the developers want & let it. The direct ties are coming through the player base that is diverse and has many different approaches how to play and what to expect. IMHO the economy will be adjusted in a way that allows a significant portion of the player base sufficient in-game means. if this is done by creating gold out of thin air or increasing commodity drops only matters to the extend that every change will alienate the players to a certain extend and imbalances that have a real game impact can destroy the gaming experience for a large group.

SotA is a game - and a game that needs to be able to sustain its operations through appeal to paying customers. Whatever the developers choose to improve the income should be stable on a longer time horizon. Otherwise it would create unrest in the customer base and threaten the revenue generated. If the solution to the money balancing problem allows for different play styles that are not all optimized the same way (i.e. non guild crafters that do not fight vs. a production guild that follows scientific management vs typical adventurers that just buy their gear) and finds "logical"/"magical" explanations for the changes implemented we should be happy. I truly do not believe that we can apply any "realistic" economy to a game that should appeal to a very heterogeneous player base and play styles.

 

The flaw I see in our system and most all MMORPG economies is that they do not fit into the real world physics of consumption.

These to vehicles will have drastically different energy consumptions and maintenance costs.

While in our game, these two have the same consumption and maintenance costs, which they should not...


It's not that the multi high skilled player needs to have more luxuries to spend on at their whim.... it's that they should have more demanded expenditure and maintenance costs because of all they can do. yet in our game, both of these characters are currently operating as if they are economy cars.
~Time Lord~

 

Truly fixing this would require some radical action. These changes do nothing to balance the gold between the haves and have-nots. Currently only the poor have real gold sinks (as in significant in relation to their income) and the rich have Comission Free Vendors, Tax Free Lots etc that only make them richer. This is only furthered by the free trading between in-game assets and real money (which I am not against, but its good to understand what it causes as a side-effect).

That being said, these changes do help the poor majority as it decreases the relative cost of gold sinks such as repairing, reagents and crafting fuels.

 

@Time Lord you said
"It's not that the multi high skilled player needs to have more luxuries to spend on at their whim.... it's that they should have more demanded expenditure and maintenance costs because of all they can do. yet in our game, both of these characters are currently operating as if they are economy cars."

I completely agree on this.

 

Why, Port do not add a '' Virtual Random Loot Table '' on Monster Loot.
To push Player to play in Multi Mode, Monster in Scene, can drop in around 1% of the time, a crafted item in around the same lvl of the monster.
Each time, a crafter player do a crafted item, 5% of the time, the '' Virtual Random Loot Table '' can do a copy of that item, available to be droped by monster, and put it in the Loot Table.
It will give a chance to player, to sell that item, or use it..

In the same way, Rare Monster Spawn, need to be add in Scene, a Rare Monster, spawn 1 time in a 1 real Life Day, and drop something good. Like Rare Regs, or 10% Good Crafted Item. etc.

Mir

 

+a zillion.... so TRUE....

 

I don't have a whole lot of money, but what i do have is from grinding and selling mats on the market..... I for one last week got tired of running all around the map zoning into all the towns i see on the map, looking at player vendors and the vendor that anyone can place on, just to not find the gear I want, at an affordable price... I got tired of the time it took just to do that, not knowing if that town even had what I was looking for after running around aimlessly just trying to find those vendors.... That's the problem right there. WHAT we need is some kind of bulletin board at the beginning of the entrance of every town and PRT,POT's ect that has vendors, and a drop down list on it of whats is being sold, for how much and from whom. So if i see someone selling a bow I want, i click on his/her name and it will show their destination on the map, much like the town crier will show where the lot that is vacant that you selected and display it on the map.... AND if crafters are not selling their stuff, maybe it is because they need to adjust the price (we need a way to click adjust selling price without having to remove it and have to replace it and pay more money again to do it) Some crafters, ask way too much for stuff i see that has low durability, knowing it isn't worth buying something for thousands of gold that only has a durability well below 100. Some are greedy, and that's why they are not selling... I ran all over and couldn't find Light armor pants that I could afford without going bankrupt. I need my gold for repairs, arrows and buying a decent bow from a crafter that sells a decent +longbow with decent stats or a stat that will help me with archery.... SHORTBOWS suck bug time, so why bother to waste money crafting it? No one will buy it. SO ----- we need like I have said, and many others have as well, a bulletin board type of thingy, every place that has public and private vendors.

 

Even if the drop down list was only available at the town entrances, this would make a huge impact on the economy. I sure hope we try ideas like this instead of foot jerking nerfs that only exacerbate the problem.

 

There is no real economy to apply free market principles to. Nobody has to spend money on player vendors. You can survive perfectly well without them.

You don't really need gold to survive adventuring either. As you climb in levels you should be able to get the gold you need to function. Sooner or later you will reach a tipping point where your gold intake is far greater then your expenditures.

So no...prices will not drop just because people are not buying. There is no real world pressure to make them. They can keep their stuff..on their vendor for infinity without 'starving'...or having to pay for the kids education or any other real world issues.

And people don't have to buy. They can get the stuff on their own. At the most basic level, you only need to pay for fuel in crafting. Everything else is obtainable in game....at an expenditure in time. Some things may be hard to find...like some reagents...but they are all out there.

So I applaud the idea that people can just go around and get gold by running to all the town criers (or the oracle). They can spend it on things to improve their time. Or it saves them from investing time in getting gold for things they care about. It wont do anything to the people who have or don't need gold. Of course, they could just provide all the basic stuff (like fuel/reagents) in the wild....so people so inclined can exist without spending any gold whatsoever.

 

Perhaps this is the problem...get rid of NPC vendors and go with player vendors only? Or would it be vice versa? do away with player vendors? Force an economy. I dont know..... moving on.
EDIT:In either case though you are right...I rarely use the player vendors. I bought one +6 sword thats really all ive bought. (durabilty 50 I wont be doing that again either)I usually goto NPC vendors just because I guess subconsciously I feel more secure in the fact I wont get ripped off. What ruined it for me was buying a backpack from a player vendor just to find out that a backpack serves no purpose what-so-ever other then the player crafting it. And there lies another problem the Devs need to fix ASAP, If an Item once crafted serves no purpose or is misleading (such as a backpack) it should not be allowed to be sold after crafting other then to a NPC...or make the item actually wearable and usable

 

'~Let the AI Dogs Out~!'
Future is always a strange partner in this. As we can recall from UO, "when everyone is rich, what's the point?"

With this in regard we must have our monsters hold the gates as powerful as they can be, because they are the only barrier that should stand between the wealthy and the common citizen. We are currently in a world that has no barriers with no monsters left unbeaten.

"I think it's time to turn the AI loose and let slip the dogs of that which should be guarding our game's economic future".

Our most powerful economic tool...
~Time Lord~

 

I think you have a point, but it is group centric IMO. This game should serve the single player and the group player. I always get anxious when content is developed for group play only and ignores a significant part of the community that plays solo. I don't know what the answer is, but if all high end stuff is group only, then this game is not for me. I just hope all us solo players (solo can be played in multiplayer by the way) are not left out of the plans.

 

I totally agree with this. I hate it when games "encourage" group play. I dont want to be "Encouraged". I like my freedom. Its nice to have that option but I feel the end game should be obtainable solo or group. If it takes longer to achieve solo thats fine to it gives me something to strive for. That works for everybody IMO