Population Concerns

It's a problem with the game, not the players. There are a number of issues in the game right now pushing and encouraging players to use SPO/FPO over Multiplayer.

Its really the same as how the way UO was designed encouraged PKing and griefing, but people wanted to say "only if the players were nicer..."

Fix the game design issues.

 

Can't agree more with this. As much as modern mmo features like quest markers are bemoaned as tools for the lazy, they served a purpose. They kept players inside the world rather than alt-tabbing to cruise third party websites. I'm not suggesting quest markers be implemented, but it seems some of the lack features Richard spoke about early, like a lack of maps that would drive players to draw their own, were just replaced by websites anyway, making their exclusion merely and impediment to overcome.

Whether a player uses in game maps or quest markers seems more a matter of player preference and behavior. I think it's better to provide them as an option for players to keep them in game. sotamaps is a popular (and useful) site! But it's popularity shows that not having a map feature drives players out of game rather than to a notebook.

 

Could also be that the very small group of people don't exist and it is just a perception problem. However, as many of the justifications from changes are Richard agrees, it makes me wonder if there is a small group of people, if it doesn't extended beyond the devs.

***edit for clarification - not every idea Richard has is perfect and without fault. Not an attack, just saying that people disagree on what they want and often look towards a closet conspiracy when often times it much more simple than that.

 

They can and do. The Steam page continues to state the game is in pre-alpha state despite them changing the terminology they are using back in January (a year and 3 months after launching on Steam in Early Access). Lots of games in EA still describe their progress in terms of alpha/beta etc.

The change had more to do with the game not following the standard dev cycle. Alpha - beta - release didn't fit. Polish is done in beta, but they've been polishing things for months. But beta typically has all core systems in, and the core systems are still being developed. Beta is also when you see balancing, but they've been balancing different segments of the game over time. So they've been doing and continue to do parts of alpha and beta simultaneously. It made more sense to simply label it as Early Access.

Starr made a post which kind of describes this back in January, I believe it was the final wipe announcement.

 

Is it this time of year again?
We must be getting closer to Xmas if I judge the time of year by the directon this topic is taking, lol.

To add something to the topic :

This.
Really I am getting tired of this very specific conspiracy theory.
If it would be like that the game would look very different from what we have now. And I guess not in a good way.

 

You just have to make a game out of it, like Principle Skinner from the Simpsons when he gets trapped under a pile of newspapers in that one episode.

For example, you could try eating two bananas at once, or try and see how far down your throat you could get the banana.

 

You're right. What I read was probably a mis-interpretation of the requirement to make sure that "Early Access" was plainly used wherever the game was sold.

Also, right. I've argued this point wherever else on these forums. It is not necessarily a change in how they planned on doing things, but it is a change on how they convey their progress. It also makes it easier to hit a point and say "Ok, Release Candidate!" because they don't have to progress from a named alpha->beta->release to do it. Even non-games do this. If you set a (realistic) release date and just iterate, you don't have to push out that date if you have a viable 'shipable product.' You just release and keep developing in short sprints.

 

That may be, however, the result is the same.

Players are making a choice -- because they don't have to ignore multiplayer -- and it's killing the health of the game in Joe Public's eyes.

 

I've read enough off-site to believe there are certainly fans who contribute thoughts and wishes that are listened to more closely than the average fan.

Even a layperson can see the tiers of SotA fans; those who are given medals, etc, versus those who are just hoping for a good game and don't need the pretend awards, etc, to want to engage. Rightly or wrongly, that sort of stuff majorly contributes to an Us and Them mentality within the community that helps no one.

 

I'd agree with that, actually. It's absolutely true that people use third party sites, or even just other people telling them what to do in the game, to get through.

There would be very few people, I believe, who could put hand on heart and say they've learned everything in game; never read a forum, looked at a map, etc.

When you look at it like that, is the whole, "Hey kids! This is old school! Check it out!" vibe really what people want? What I just said above suggests not.

A toggle on/off button that put, say, a small glow next to quest givers, etc, would probably be appreciated by more people than would care to admit it.

Those who want the game to be weird, obscure and niche -- even though they'd never have to toggle such a thing on -- would no doubt call this heresy.

But the fact remains, people go offsite for quest help and a lot more anyway, so making it optional and keeping it in-game would be a far more logical response.

 

If memory serves me correctly... the *change* came on the heels of one of the hangouts or telesomethings where they had a much less than stellar showing (read nobody was reaching for their wallets).
So the "news" was the newly created buzz. The problem again is trying to rush things. This game wasn't ready for persistence.

While I'm semi-ranting....what we NEED now is NOT more pixel crack in the store....we need the stuff that IS in game to be fixed and lose the "under construction" signs

AND...something to do. Or to put it another way... some type of reward for checking out the world (restart hat quests) or put in some cool (cosmetic only pls) rare drops that don't require tackling end game stuff. Mind...the bone armor is awesome looking and... it gives bored higher lvl characters something to do but something more broad based.. even in the interim would be nice. Maybe I'm alone in wanting to avoid end game type bosses etc. until such time as things are done cuz I would like fresh content to explore whenever we finally DO launch.

 

Hey.. quiet as it's kept...ppl didn't all just figure out UO on their own either. I was very active in the early days so I can speak to "Old School" (the only one I attended). 1st item of the day with your morning coffee was ICQ discussions about w/e was new on stratics...

and this was 20 years ago so.....

 

I don't know how many times I've thought about how cool it would be to have an arcade machine with all the classics. Then I load up MAME and fifteen minutes later,"Okay. I'm good for the next year or so."

 

Truer than people often like to admit. I find a lot of the people fascinated by old school stuff like 8-bit or 16-bit graphics are people born since then.

Many people who actually lived through the era see stuff like that and think, "Sure, we played that then... but technology got better and we moved on..."

Reminds me of my Dad who lived through the era of truly classic cars, but much prefers a modern car that doesn't break down, leak oil, etc, etc.

There is a romance that comes from "old stuff", especially for people who weren't there when it came around the first time, but it's never as good as it seems.

 

Yup, I remember those days, too. I remember being on Stratics all the time and even remember by ridiculously low ICQ number to chat with folks.

Of course, the more time that goes by, the more some people erase the small stuff like how they used lots of offline help, and now pretend they didn't.

It's led, at least in part, to this idea that a game like SotA is reviving some long lost art that people are really into when most, almost all, will cheat it in some way.

 

There are maps in the game... not for everything, yet. Some of the maps have been put off because of ongoing development. And if cartography skills come in in later in game development that will be great.... But I certainly wouldn't want anything in game to preclude cartography being a major game feature.

Well, if not global chat, then what else? My issue with global chat, besides general complaints about it in a role-playing game, is that I think it will continue driving people to SPO/FPO and also to ignore local chat. Why find people to talk locally if you can sit in SPO/FPO and talk globally? You already have those complaining about not seeing people in multiplayer and not seeing people chat locally; it'll just get worse.

All of these things are not just abstract issues -- it has an impact on the gameplay when you put convenience features directly in the game. You also have people asking for automated global listings of vendor sales, with the rationale that some website is going to have them eventually. But that would increase junk vendors, decrease player initiative in advertising, and make it harder to build an interesting economy.

I definitely want to see the game develop to the point where people don't feel the need to go to outside sites in the future. But I think the way the game does this matters. If we have mechanics that encourage people to stay in multiplayer, for instance, and there are places designed for to meet up, like camps in the wilderness and taverns, then some LFG chat service won't be needed. Because people will meet each other organically. And maybe things like guild newsletters and mailings would help also. If we have cartography skills in the game, then people won't have to go to websites to look up maps. If we have noticeboards where people can advertise in the game, then we won't need automated vendor listings. Etc... so there are choices on how to accomplish this. The devs have to make these choices.

Like I said earlier, the mechanics create the game -- not the players. If the devs want to encourage role-playing, they have to create mechanics to encourage role-playing. And that's the bottom line.

 

Whether you're grinding 10 spiders out of fun, or grinding 10 spiders to finish a quest and get a small handful of gold, it still ends up being the same thing: grinding.

I don't necessarily see a problem with all quests like this. I remember in Ultima VII, a farmer paid you if you got him pumpkins. This can be done in a "hardcore" game. However, grind quests are not a magic bullet to solving boredom, because it's still just grinding.

 

I kind of feel like the 'gathering' type grinding quests are a good thing interspersed in and around and between story-type quests, especially if the goal is to get you to explore the beautifully interesting world that has been created. If you stick to solving story quests only, you might never turn your head left or right to enjoy the journey.

 

hehe mine was 1186xx

I should figure out what the pw was

 

Berek just officially confirmed the bans.
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...for-botting-and-exploiting.68140/#post-685391