Final Feedback Compilation

It already exists. It's on Reddit. I don't recommend it.

 

Here's the problem with that. Just because you don't go there doesn't mean the behavior should be supported.

In other words, if you don't want name calling, immature reactions, lies about the game, false narratives, and general internet nonsense going on in your forums, the thing to do is not to build a special forum for people that can't follow the rules.

Being moderated means that whatever action you were taking (right or wrong, good or bad, in the spirit of the rules or not) that action has been adjusted to fit the overall goals of the community at large. It doesn't mean that people have been silenced or that they have been marginalized, it means that there are rules and people in the forums are being held accountable to those rules. Are there inconsistencies? Sure, because the people doing the moderation are humans.

Well said.

 

I recommend reddit. And maybe read the reviews on steam while your at it... or any comment section on a SotA review...

 

Free speech is not unlimited speech, not anywhere. You can't walk into a crowded movie theater and yell "fire!" for example.

When you're talking about a forum that is being used to both collect feedback and help market the game, what should Portalarium do when the same person shows up every day saying the same nonsense? That person may not think they're saying nonsense, they may very well believe what they're saying is true, but Portalarium doesn't have any obligation to allow the continuation of that on their forums. In fact, it's just the opposite that's true if what the person is saying is damaging either the ability to collect honest and accurate feedback, or if it's somehow damaging the ability for Portalarium to market the game.

Being able to vent is very different than calling people names, lying about the game, spamming the forums with nonsense, or a variety of other things that people on the internet like to do (especially if they're poor communicators). Take the OP as an example, that's a very well developed post. I don't agree with almost all of it, but it's well spoken. No one moderated that OP, because they didn't have to. Now let's say that the author of that post comes back here every day and keeps this thread alive or makes new threads over and over again about the same thing. Is it wrong to moderate that behavior? I would say no. Let's move on.

 

Well I guess it's a question of definition. To me P2W is when devs generate equipment/XP/gold out of thin air. RMT is when you buy equipment/XP/gold from other players, basically exchanging money for time played. To be fair, RMT will take place no matter what, that the devs provide a safe place for it is better than having that business take place on shady websites.

As far as I know, devs are only selling convenience/cosmetic items and not selling artifacts or gold, so it's not P2W in my book. If you're a high enough level for an artifact to be worth it, you can easily farm gold in-game and buy one from other players. Plus in almost every case, player-crafted gear is still better.

 

The real issue with forum moderation on every single game is just that. It's a human behind the wheel. Although the moderators here are always professional and a cut above many other forums I've seen.

It's hard to see this thread as anything other than 1) someone was moderated, and doesn't understand why, especially after never being moderated before, and 2) is trying their best to take it out on the game, instead of trying to talk about it with the moderator. Plugging other games, demonizing the game and Portalarium every way possible, and in a public way. All starting with being moderated. (Reading between the lines of course. )

And that's my point. People are much more likely to passive-agressively take out their frustrations on the game than to agressively take out their frustrations with the moderator, because realistically.. that's a great way to get banned via an emotional response, (In essence, a human moderator.) and everyone is so afraid of that scenario that they won't just PM the moderator and discuss it. (Either they don't because they're afraid to, or because they know they don't have a leg to stand on.)

Anyways that's all I'm saying, I think the mods here have a a bad rep because of a few individuals, and people are just unlikely to shoot them a PM to discuss the moderation because they think they'll become a target. That's what it seems like is going on here. It's quite the opposite. The mods here understand that, when people PM them about being moderated, that those people might be irate so they just try to stay professional.

I would be more inclined to ask those people who are claiming to have one or two or three guildmates who no longer play because of the moderation if those people even attempted to find a common ground with moderators, or if the OP has, because as per the title thread, he didn't, and went immediately to plugging other games and doomsaying.

 

This happens often and many do it in a subtle way but their intentions are totally clear to me and i imagine most others but they do not get moderated or not moderated enough imo. I have blocked 3 people here for the same actions., and there's a number who deserve the same treatment but i have held back as on occasion they do post some good well though out and on an occasion positive posts. I am not for silencing anyone unless they are a card holding badge wearing member of negativity is us....I have ony ever reported one post....and thats because it was the person who just got mine deleted and then did the same and alot worse and did it in big shiny green writing , that wasn't moderated.....I don't personally want a no holds barred sub forum, but a sub forum that is at least a little less moderated, nothing negative about the game gets deleted all opinions matter, but i and the majority don't want to read it but its there views and they entitled to.... i would have thought that 3+ years of this and negative posters leaving here to troll on steam/reddit would have at least shown u that it cant be stopped and would better to be controlled.

 

the P2W argument is ridiculous. I have a big house full of a bunch of stuff I bought on the add on store like paintings and furniture. It doesn't effect my "grinding" at all. In fact, most my gear now is made by people who have spent probably 1/10th what I have spent in this game, they just play a lot more.

Time spent playing this game is 100% how advanced you are.

 

"Rage Quit" has been a term used since the UO days. We have a lot of rage quitters and I can judge that within the first few seconds of reading a post. Sometimes it takes months for them to rage quit and they take their frustrations out here in very nonconstructive ways. Most of these rage quits are happening in a destruction way with people just lashing out. The OP here is kinda rage quitting but not in a bad way, he does not go over board like the ones that start insulting the dev's and making legal claims. Those people simply need to be censored, they have to be.

 

I'm not arguing for or against P2W - my thing is that the perception is there and it's part of the conversation as to why reviews are what they are for SotA. So I can understand where the OP is coming from.

I play a couple other games, and folks hit me up in Discord about SotA because they see from my signature that I'm playing Shroud of the Avatar... I get comments and questions regarding P2W and SotA from time to time from people curious about the game. There's no shame in accepting that a lot of folks are here for the grind and RMT - and there's a lot game mechanics that give the appearance that SotA has been designed to aggressively support RMT. And that in and of itself creates an environment for the perception of P2W to become very real for the gaming community at large. Just check the reviews - hell, wait for the launch reviews - if people aren't talking about SotA and RMT in launch reviews I'll eat my hat.

 

The OP is on point and well spoken and I agree with everything said.

... I share the same frustrations as the OP where moderation in concerned.

 

My expectations are not that it will be stopped or controlled.

My personal expectations are that anyone should be able to post here without being called names, mocked, ridiculed, or harassed. I would hope that would be a goal that everyone in the community would share and understand, but unfortunately it's not. There are people on the internet and in our forums that literally have said "your pain is our gain", and to me I think that's a horrible way to exist and well deserving of moderation.

There are others that are far less direct about it. They have different reasons for their actions, some of them are more or less toxic than what I described above. Is there a subset of people that honestly have a negative opinion of our game and just want to voice that opinion? Yes, the OP is an example of that. I have no problem with the people expressing themselves on the forums in a constructive well spoken way. Again, I don't personally agree with most of it, but he's entitled to his own opinion and I wish him well. I'm also certain the developers will read and consider his thoughts as they do with everything here.

But where does that leave us? We're in development. Not everyone is going to like the direction or choices that are made. I don't like every direction or choice that is made either. The rules of the forum are designed to allow for civil debate, and thoughtful comments. I believe for the most part the comments being moderated do not meet this bar.

In summary, these forums are made for everyone that can follow the rules. They're not made for people that consistently break the rules, and if there is a person that is making the same post over and over again in an attempt to create a narrative that is untrue, that should be moderated. I would count most of the stuff I've read on reddit to be that kind of stuff. It's not something that can or will ever be stopped or controlled, but there's no reason to allow it to exist here because it only creates arguments and prevents the community from having honest conversations.

It's kind of like having to go to Thanksgiving dinner with your crazy uncle. At some point the guy stops getting invited to Thanksgiving dinner if he becomes too crazy for the majority of people to stand.

 

It does indeed...they then go on for years and years on to other sites. The stamina of some of the ex backers here is astounding.

I agree he isn't, i acknowledged that earlier, i think hes said some useful things over the times ive read his posts. Insulting devs and making legal claims, still deleted, but they are rare nowadays that i see. But there's lots of subtle negativity that is actually far worse as some players reading these posts are slowly brainwashed into believing these lies and help influence bad feelings to areas of the game that rent imo remotely justified.

Anyway....im out.....i said 2p worth...u got at least a quid out of me...

 

aye, I was only addressing P2W, I agree with you one RMT. If people dont like RMT then they wont like any game made ever. It helped pay my way through college selling UO stuff.

 

You actually hit the target with that statement. Every release, a handful of people come here and complain about a given feature. Of the ~100K players of this game. Forums have always been a place that are negative, how often do you see posts "you put xxxx system in and I love it". That is the nature of people and those that dont know this come to forums and get a really bad idea of the game, they become indoctrinated into the negativity while before they were probably just happy playing. Besides the fact that the topic they are complaining about is only 1 of 1000 major technical features of the game and they are probably happy with 95% of the others.

 

Indeed....

Well i do try and tell them when i like something for that exact reason or at least i like posts that someone has stated something they like, even if I'm not so keen on it.. Most people don't say nowt when they playing and enjoying something and it must be difficult for the devs to actually 'guess' what we do like at times and i feel for them when you get silly complaints about something or other which obviously isn't intentional or has been put in to test the game or systems....I have just had that myself....he wasn't hitting for this damage 2 days ago..but now that troll is a killer....

[2/27/2017 6:27:58 PM] Torc'Dawl the Broken attacks Bow Vale and hits, dealing 570 points of critical damage from Swipe.

 

I agree with a lot of the OP.

 

The grind issue is something the OP brought up, something I see frequently in reviews, and this quote highlights a really disturbing relationship that is likely to negatively impact perception of the game. I have more than 600 hours in the game (granted, not a lot compared to some, but a lot for me) and I still can't do high level content like the rise. The only way to advance anything in game is to spend hours upon hours of repetitive killing of the same mobs or farming the same resource from the same scenes (or paying for it with real money from the player market). I once saw a steam review where the reviewer cited the grindiness of the game, and a dev responded (paraphrasing) 'Oh really, what aspects of the game do you find repetitive?' I nearly ruined my keyboard from laughing with a drink in hand. The question is a little incredulous?

My hope is that quests give more reason and meaning for fighting and that systems become more engaging. But fundamentally, right now, more grind time in game = more power, and the amount of grind to end game is a deal breaker for a lot of people. I think this may be important feedback that hasn't really struck home with the dev team, particularly when there are pro-grind forces, like the above quote, balancing for power gamers, and lack of resources to innovate new methods of character progression. I simply don't see the plan going forward to address this issue. Hope it exists.

 

I like the grind. If there would be more purpose behind it it wouldn't hurt. That is the main problem IMHO.

 

Some people don't distinguish between these; buying advantage whether from Port or player can be construed as the same if your issue is having to compete against other players that do not earn their own stats/gear/items/gold.