Final Feedback Compilation

Finally, the day has come where it’s time for my ‘exit feedback’ from Shroud of the Avatar. As it is not release specific I have posted it in general as no other places seem to be correct for sharing large topics on the generalities of SOTA. I provide this opening statement, not totally as clickbait, but as a way of contextualizing the feedback I wish to give as I move on from waiting for Shroud of the Avatar to become a complete game, to focusing on other games and hobbies that more immediately fulfill my preferences.

While I don’t wish to make grandiose statements about never playing the game again, as never is a long time, I’ll be exiting the cycle of the official community and certainly won’t be checking in every release as I was prior.

As feedback is subjective reflections on my specific experiences, I will not be responding to posts that attempt to ‘correct’ the way I experienced the game, but invite you to still post counter impressions as I am aware one person’s negative, can be an other’s key gameplay feature. Please try to avoid saying ‘You’re wrong’ and remember that we just have different experiences and neither of us has to be wrong for us to both be right when it comes to opinions on a game or concept.

Having said that, it’s my opinion that the game succeeds with far too narrow an audience currently which will prevent it from ever becoming truly great.

Community Management

In almost 20 years on online activity, I have never been moderated once. In SOTA official forums It has occurred several times, despite a relatively low post count. I find it to be unacceptable where the line is drawn and what constitutes a personal attack. Asking people who are baiting with loaded terms to please stay on topic, to me is not an offense to the community, but in fact is to its benefit. If more everyday posters were mindful of being actively and socially responsible for making topics of discussion free of such unsociable behavior, the mods would find it to be far less work in ‘correcting behavior’.

I additionally find it to be indefensible to moderate posts without informing the poster. Community Management is a position in it itself and there are a team of volunteers who help with this. The bandwidth is not only available, but most all of us can follow the forums while working full time as well. They don’t move particularly fast. To me, a professional in the communication field and a public relations and business management specialist, it’s a basic part of the job.

Basically, being a part of the community is an antagonising and frustrating affair for me, and for people like me.

I simply have far more productive and enjoyable things to do with my time then to take the time to write posts, only to have my participation in the community at constant risk of erasure.

As for the ‘capital “C”’ Community; that is the mostly welcoming and friendly player base that is mature and respectful in their interactions even at a point of disagreement, I am sorry there weren’t more opportunities for honest and earnest discussion given the constant concern over whether my opinion would be muted or not.

If not for the time zone mismatch between Oceanic players and the majority, perhaps finding a niche to occupy would have been more successful as well, rather than consignment to solo instances in Multiplayer Online mode.


Housing

Shroud of the Avatar as it stands does not respect the time or money of their players. By design it asks you to play SOTA only. The time required to maintain property after the tax hike is ludicrous. COTO still seemed ok when I made a deal for a Town lot, but then COTO was tied more strongly to item destruction and the prices almost doubled making it impossible for me to use the deed I had just brokered with another player. Compound that with tuning down gold drops after people had paid money for deeds in the add on store which became more and more burdensome as gold sources got drastically altered after the sale, and I can only express gratitude that I was able to unburden myself of my in-game assets at what I paid for them total, while still having my account and various reward trinkets should I play in the future. Never mind the additions of the raffle which was so poorly balanced initially that it flooded the resale market with deeds, rather than have deeds go where the demand was, lowering the value of what I bought in at. Clearly, I should have just bought $50 worth of gold from a player and a bunch of tickets as I could have easily got several deeds for less. I just converted 6000 (Technically about $60 but as a subscriber I get a 1500 stipend every month which I had saved) ESO crowns into a wonderful estate with cherry blossoms, a reflective pool and a larger two store house with several rooms. Sure it’s instanced to other players, but it’s cheaper by several orders of magnitude then SOTA and now I can go explore the world to get my furniture instead of either crafting ‘shabby’ versions or buying packs on the Add on Store. Same goes with FFXIV and my apartment, which is not possible to buy with anything but in game money and housing is not instanced infinitely, but is limited and valuable in the economy, but without RMT.

Another major disappointment is the inability to craft town housing of a similar size or complexity as the add-on store items. It seemed there was an assumption if you had a town deed, you’d drop $100 on a house, or just be satisfied with a village or row house (Which begs the question of why bother paying extra coto unless you want to farm reagents, which is just clicking confirmations boxes right now).

Progression

The XP system is needlessly complicated and far too vertical. I expected a game where grinding wasn’t the measure of strength. What SOTA is though is a game with a longer grind then ESO, WoW or FFXIV before you can do ‘end game activities’. I note in a recent PvP battle, despite me having hundreds of hours in game since persistence, I have 1/3 to ½ of the HP of the participants. I am also not powerful enough to mine or gather anything but tier one materials which require 5 skull zones be explorable to progress beyond because the only way you could think of to make crafting valuable was to protect it behind combat.

Crafting

Then there is crafting. Items require far too many components and this is compounded by needing to crit a craft, on average in 4 attempts, and then you risk breaking it by making your item unique through Masterworking and Enchanting. A system that risks hours of my gameplay on a dice roll does not respect my time in the game. Destroy items through use, consume fuels on failure, fine. But full destruction is just not a system I can play with. Risking 20 hours of material gathering for +5 strength is not a well-balanced Risk vs Reward equation.

My biggest issue with crafting was the inability to leverage unique item appearances. Particularly add on store items and Kickstarter items. Because of that I sold most of mine as I could never use them, but has that changed now the pattern system is in? Shame on me I suppose, but like the house deeds, the values of items being distributed by Portalarium change value at the drop of a hat with wildly swinging nerfs and buffs to in game changes. Let’s mention again, SOTA does not respect time or money invested in the game. After all, even when you buy ‘Patterns’ they degrade with your equipment and require reapplication and therefore, eventually repurchasing.

RMT

No one can convince me the RMT in SOTA is not Pay to Win. Right now, I can open my paypal wallet and buy any artefact as far as I can tell. If not ‘any’ then certainly most. I can also pay someone, from Paypal, for top tier items to make my grind easier. Hell, I could even pay them to grind XP for me.

I understand Portalarium can claim ‘their’ add-on store is not pay to win, but pay to win is actively encouraged in the official player marketplace and is simply a fact of the game that many need to make peace with rather than defending it by trying to make the definition of ‘winning’ so abstract that the definition is impossible to meet.

My experience of the game is that winning, for me, would have been having a nice house that reflected my character. I couldn’t escape the store to realize that dream. So, the Pay to Win Bar stood firmly in the way of my game goals and I think, given the breadth of the add on store and the market place, it’s a low bar for many people.

Concluding Thoughts

Sadly, I could continue with what I perceive as poor balance or design but I think I have made my point and have erred on the side of being too verbose to be read anyway so I’ll end here.

I don’t like making judgements as ‘final’ as this, but this journey from the first webpage counting down to the Kickstarter, to now, has been a long, and so far, unrewarding one for me. My passion to see a unique RPG that could be played with friends in a living world just doesn’t seem to have happened, and beyond that I am clearly not welcomed by Portalarium. I will not begrudge them their desire to choose their fans.

It further pains me that this happens at a time when the client stability and optimisation seems to have made some strong improvements and clearly many people in the Portalarium team have dons some strong work. It’s just a shame that there are other aspects of the company that clash so strongly with what I think is acceptable business practice and responsible customer service.

So, this is more or less goodbye to the official forums, for the reasons stated in the opening remarks. SOTA may be something I check in on in the future, or I may get too distracted when Doomfist is revealed, or when my Samurai makes it to Ala Mihgo.

 

A well written piece on your feelings. I do not agree with all of them but its not my view of course it is yours, however i do know your statements about the XP/tax rates are much different to mine but the grind can be time consuming but it is not impossible in fact its quite easy to get to 99% effectiveness of a multi GM player who hasn't specialised.

If you still have property in game i am more than willing to pay your tax so u can keep it until/if you decide to return. Also show you what i know in the game and how to make some money. SotA is a rpg, and getting to the end game should be a task and a half. We are 7 months in and as you state players are already there, the end game of this first pre release, so the journey is not even started in reality, and i would be very disappointed if it was the real end game at this pont. Take time to reconsider or at least keep a foot in the door, i have left twice to return, selling accounts and rebuying and in truth i am more than happy here and being part of the process and journey however messy it at times gets as each release brings a lot to the table and i am confident the team here will make a game they and we are very proud of. I play this over so many new and shiny titles i have bought and not played it is untrue and see great further potential for its development.

I do respect also that you make a final comment about it all. It is needed for leaving players to state their reasons, it just irks me tremendously when we see these posts( not as detailed or honest as yours) and then get the same faces returning to try and upset the cart. With you i know that wont be the case.

Be safe if you do leave for good, else like i say add me in game and we see if we can make the journey a little easier for you.

 

I sold property so as to see it used rather then sit in a bank. Even then I was no power player with a tax free row, and tax NPC row and a tax Town at the height of matters.

I also could generate the gold if I wanted to, but there wasn't much pleasure in collecting weapons of skeletons and bandits. I realise there is more money making potential once tier 5 areas were farm-able and more options at that point but at my current power progress didn't feel very noticeable at all.

I recognize much of that may be a lack of knowing the right paths, whether theorycrafting builds, or knowing which areas rewarded appropriately since there is huge differences in how efficient different areas are for gold, resources and XP.

But I think the complexity of that level of obfuscation in information (Hiding adventurer level, not tracking progress on a GUI bar to give direct feedback that what you are doing is achieving your goals) is what really held me back from feeling like my time in game affected by character's progress to be able to do what I wanted to do.

In other games I see my level climb, I see my gear score increase each session and I push through quest liues and events with tangible start points and end points. The game gives me cues that what I do matters.

SOTA you hover a tool tip for a skill and it tells you in 20 skill points you'll do x% more damage or have x% more effacacy. It's not very satisfying to me versus logging into the FFXIV to get the awesome Diablos armor I have been trying to get from the current group content and for my item level to increase and allow me to do Savage difficulty content. Or to gather enough high quality collectable minerals and finally get that pickax that gives me enough perception to hunt profitable, rare ore.

I know that gets thought of as 'hand holding' in SOTA, but I don;t think it's fair to expect open world freedom, and have a 'correct' pathg to achieving goals require so much inside information that is not readily available to players playing primarily solo.

If anything, it's you friendly and welcoming response to players, as well as many others on the boards that do the same, is what sorely conflicts me about being so dissatisfied with the game because when you have a great community, you can have a fantastic game, even if it has flawed mechanics.

But I can't, at this moment, overcome the frustration of being so heavily watched on these forums by the moderation team at this moment in time.

I know like/post ratios are in the end, meaningless, but having a positive ratio should indicate while not necisarily everyone agrees with my opions (The opposite in fact) but my participation here has generally been understood for the most part.

But, I am rambling again. As I said, thanks for the kind words and I will add you to my list. I know I'll play SOTA again at some point to see how it moves on from Early Access and maybe by then the official forums will be more comfortable with discussions that are dynamic, but not offensive.

 

As always sending best wishes. I do think if I was leaving I would just leave though. Having a goodbye come across sounding imo a bit like a threat and punishment as in *see what you've done, you didn't do what I thought you should do so I'm leaving*.

It's totally ok to go and come back whatever you want to do for whatever reason you choose to do it. Consider just doing it without goodbyes because your reasons for doing this thread are suspect to say the least well it seems that way.

As mentioned above I too would also help anytime and offer you a free place for you to stay with nothing required back to me. There's many ways to play this game.

You are free to explore the gaming world and I also wish you a safe journey. . We'll be here for you if you come back. *Cheers*

 

@Vagabond Sam

Best of luck with your future endevors and hope you find that game home wherever it may be.

 

I want to address this directly because I often think this to when someone posts a leaving post on a game I love.

I know I don't have thousands of posts here and I am mostly unknown to the SOTA community.

But i would very much like to make it clear that I, along with my close friends who played with me, had a huge amount of passion for the game. Spending hours talking about it and looking forward to it, planning our legacy in the game and slowly upgrading to get a small real estate bubble to facilitate operations we imagined would span the world of Novia, requiring outposts near mines and near commercial hubs.

While I grew up on Japanese video games, a formative memory for me and my best friend is me watching him play Ultima 7 or 8 and working through a puzzle together, one that involved a glass sword being placed on a pedestal, if thats enough to identify the moment for some of you ><;

I say this to really clearly state that I want this game to be fantastic and to be a world where we can have that type of experience and because, like many of you, although it was very small experience in my case, Richard Garriot had an impact on my life and it may be one of the things (RPGs and gaming) that created such a strong friendship that has, so far, lasted a lifetime.

I hope that answers the suspicions on my intentions that you raise.

Additionally, if I am leaving the game and feel that it is for reasons other then simple incompatibility with the premises of the game, I might, as you say, leave without saying good bye.

In fact, I have never posted 'Goodbye' threads before.

I do so here for a last hope that the direction of the way Portalarium values all the backers that are passionate changes.

It hurts to have my voice deleted from the forums when I take my time to try and participate and do, in my own way, what I feel is beneficial to the game and community.

That sounds dramatic, but it's the truth. When you give your time to someone, or something, you want it to be valued. It's because I think that is not a fair way to be treated that I provide it as feedback in this form.

I know everyone will evaluate my time here differently. Some have said they have found my contributions to be level, well written and fair. Others have accused me of personal attacks, trolling and of ill intent.

Perhaps for the first time I have given an honest account of what SOTA means to me and why it's difficult to be in a forum that treats 'dissent' such as I post so harshly.

In a way that may the biggest reason I spent an hour or so writing the post and why I will post replies to honest and fair questions or responses in this thread.

I hope that makes sense to you Marjoria, because I came to find you one of the very best Avatars in the forums.

 

Ahhh and thanks for saying that. I'm sorry I sounded harsh but I'm always gonna stand for this game and it doesn't mean I don't care for the community here as well. It's crazy frustrating at times here and we all get disheartened and think it just isn't going to get better and then Wala something happens to get the hope flowing again. I cannot in good conscience go away from supporting this game. I will be unwavering in that and to speak for what I believe is missing the presence of which would make a difference for this game. When all is said and done then we will actually have a game. And seriously go have a blast. I'll be here if you ever need me

 

Well @majoria70 to blindly defend the game is not very productive either ^^

I think one thing Vagabond is saying should be taken into account. His voice gets deleted here.
I experienced the same, and frankly if I haven't backed as large I would be long gone already... even when it means I would be missing a lot of the fun I am currently having with the game.
Community Management here is a perfect example how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I beg @Berek to finally see some day that this needs to change here. I got banned in Discord for pointing out things like that is pushing people away from the game.
Don't kill the messenger.

I don't believe the game is anywhere near profitable yet. That being said I am glad I see changes that were necessary.
I think the Devs realized that gameplay features are more important in attracting customers than costumes.
But if people continue to be censored and moderated here for single words and opinions... that will generate a multiplier for more hate towards the game.

 

Two PM'S overnight from the player that's been the most hostile to me in my time here.

Characterizing me as deluded and laughing at me.

That's the behavior that needs to be focused on by moderation here, rather then critical posts that don't denigrate others and just provide opinions.

Everytime I've been active here I've had to deal with the same person doing this same harassment.

I hope my posts are looked at long and hard and there can be seen that I never made assumptions on personal levels or criticized the person, but only ever spoke to ideas.

Yet this poster constantly crtisized me as a person and the mods response, consistently, was to delete both our messages because they fought with me.

This isn't the first time that people like me have pointed out how some in the community use the current state of the forums to silence others.

 

I'm sorry that you are taking a break, I hope we will see you again as the game continues to mature! I'll make sure this feedback gets to the rest of the team. Please know that we take extra care to respond to every discussion that is moderated. No relevant threads or posts are removed without us informing the OP or community in general. This is a standard moderation policy.

I suppose I could take a break of my own and let the community loose in the forums for a month and see what happens... I guarantee you won't like that either though . We do our best to strike a balance for the good of the community, which of course is not going to be accepted by everyone. This is far better than letting anything go. Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions here, especially any actions related to your posts!

 

Excluding the moderation part, I share alot of his complaints. I wouldnt dismis his views id bet there is alot of other people who feel the same way. Crafting is mind numbing, housing is jacket and the lottey rewared the gold rich who sold thier winning just to be more rich. Decay drives me nuts if I play 1 hour a day I cannot pay my decay unless im in full out grind mode.

 

Would give new meaning to "March Madness".

Re: OP, sometimes it's good to take a step back. We'll leave a light on for ya.

 

Im really glad someone posted the sillyness of *blindly defending the game regardless * as i completly feel these people hurt the game as much as the people who are critical.

I hear ya completly on the moderation part vega. I ve got guildies who have left over it already. I see bereks reasoning and have gotten a good reply from him in pm. I just disagree with the way they choose to do it.

Its a shame to see you go, but im glad you took the time to write up a good post about the reasonings in a productive way.

While i share a lot of your feelings, i luckily have a large socisl group still interested in sota, trying to hold firm. And altho a lot of those reasons stop me from playing purely sota, im still trying to give it a chance. Though i can completly understand.

Sorry to see ya go. Hopefully we catch you in another game!

 

Got censored again... They never learn. Apparently whales is a forbidden word now, and criticizing the CM is also not allowed.

 

Great post, I've also been on a break from shroud for many of the same reasons as you describe. I especially like your point on the shear time investment required to pay for housing or crafting. I sincerely hope the devs pay close attention to your post and spend some well needed effort into quality of life/balance.

 

I can see how they would wait until closer to launch to be putting out their best ideas and content. Really, if they put out all the good stuff years before launch, competitors would have plenty of time to imitate it and then there would be no reason for players to make the switch. It's also wise to make it look like you're never going to amount to anything substantial as a threat, until the appropriate time. This isn't something Portalarium is about to explain, but as you can see by the quality of the recent release, in such a short amount of time, they'veeeee been holding out on us for sure, while dishing out costumes and not advertising etc. Have faith, these guys clearly know what they're doing. They've practically got the doomsayers working for them to keep up these pretenses.

 

I am not as optimistic. They made a lot of mistakes and the PR for this game is nothing else but disastrous.
I only know one game that recovered from a failed commercial launch - EvE Online.

Also changes that are made to combat, seem to be not really thought out well and I get the feeling they develop on the fly sometimes.
They are not very open discussing any game mechanics with us players before implemented. But if I want to buy a butterfly helmet from the addon store they are all ears

That being said, bringing in more risk vs reward and less handholding is a good step in the right direction.
If they start giving guilds a purpose and making players work together more rewarding than paying with cash for a POT to build with more cash, they can attract more players.

 

That might work for opportunistic predators on the Discovery Channel.

I can't see that being effective for a Gane trying to attract crowd funding to put out a unique game

 

It's not optimism, nor is it what could be considered 'blind' optimism. It's experience. As far as the moderation here goes, I'm surprised they've allowed the idea that anyone here is a 'blind optimist defender' (instead of just that there's a bunch of people here who are nice, normal individuals) to get so conflated. It certainly isn't congruent to my personal brand of 'three fingers of whiskey in the morning' moderation that everyone adores. (They don't)

Yes, for you to see it, they would need to make 100x their initial goal (of 1 million) instead of the measily 10x they've made.

 

Which is why i avoid any real thought or time into my posts now lol.