Meticulous Collection

The game is not supposed to be a mining efficiency challenge. But on the subject of TIME, that's not really as simple as just measuring 1 hour = X ore. How many times were you attacked during each hour? Did you take the EXACT route between nodes? Did you heal for exactly the same amount of time? Did you use the rest room? Did you do anything at all between when you were mining and when you were not? Just saying I only got 100 ore in this hour and I got 150 ore in that hour is not really a fair way to measure this. Statistically, with enough data you might get close to a real answer, but that's assuming the data is good.

But back to your point. Time being where the benefit is lost. I submit to you again that the benefit was never about TIME, it was about per node. The fact that it may not be that big of a benefit over time is probably by design for the very reason that the OP is trying to get it changed, because the devs (probably) don't want people power gaming this any more than they already are.

 

Yes, but after you're done meticulousing that node, you'd still move to the next one and continue mining, so the 'movement time' is fixed whether you are meticulousing or not.

As has been iterated many times, meticulous is only of benefit in scenarios where resource desnsity is sparse or where you can accept the added delay to avoid mining faster than new nodes are spawning.

And that will vary depending on skill levels, playstyle, mood, whatever.

But what a player can achieve in a fixed segment of time is absolutely relevant.

 

Then what is the point of investing in the skill?
If your net gain for time spent is not improved, why invest in it? Why buy the potion? You gain nothing ore wise and you actually lose experience.
Nobody's arguing that meticulous doesn't increase the ore per node. It clearly does that.
But it also clearly reduces how many nodes you can get in a fixed time, because meticulousing TAKES time.

We can go in circles all day on this. I, as a player, assign value to my time.
If you don't assign value to your time, then this entire argument is irrelevant to you.



To address your mining efficiency challenge statement - I appareciate that there are other variables at play here, and sometimes yes I'll be on the phone or eating or chatting or I'll get up to pet the cat, but after actual thousands of hours mining I think I'm qualified to generalize an average yield. There are many others in the same position.

 

Doesn't the current reality then create a type of soft cap for meticulous collection based on if you're loop farming with high degrees of min/maxing?

I don't see anything wrong with that. Again, the game is not supposed to be a mining efficiency simulator.

 

No I get that time has value. But if there are diminishing returns on that time, doesn't that free you up to do other things besides mining ore? Or can't you simply say "well I've reached peak efficiency" and move on?

If you don't have to buy the potion to reach that, good for you? If you don't need super high levels of meticulous collection, isn't that more points you can use somewhere else? I would hate to think that we need to balance this entire game just for the handful of people that are super efficient at mining ore on a loop.

 

This is only true if you disregard the fact that meticulous doesn't actually give you a "fresh" swing at a node. It gives you a single, base ore/wood/cotton/leather. No extra goodies (and lets be honest that the extra goodies matter WAY more) or in the gold/silver case no further chance at 2x or 3x hits. This is how you end up with far fewer total resources using meticulous collection in any sort of farming scenario.

I will concede that if you only wanted base iron/copper ore (or leather, etc.) then meticulous collection works just fine. I don't have any realistic scenarios for this as base raw mats aren't worth anything near their "alloy" additives that can drop alongside them (basically even if all you want to do is craft jewelry, you would end up with more total iron from selling the other stuff and buying the iron ore as a result than sitting and waiting with meticulous hits for the base ore).

The point here is that USING the skill actually LOWERS that soft-cap lol...

 

Because there is a very real benefit involved? Sorry, but the Baron is definitely correct about this matter.

 

I like it it! Wish they would do that for XP. There are a few players out there that are way too high compared to the rest of the pack. This is how decay should work, imo.

 

Yeah, I'll leave it at that.
I'm so awesome at harvesting resources that I don't need the potion and I don't need to invest in meticulous to be at max efficiency.
This is actually exactly what I'm doing.

I'll just add that to my list of "pointless skills and items" and move on instead of trying to suggest improvements to the situation that would benefit everyone.

Except there clearly ISN'T a benefit except if you look at a single node scenario which is unrealistic. Nobody goes into a mine, mines a single node and leaves. Of course you might though. In which case yea, sure, benefit, whatever. There is little point arguing with people who refuse to see the big picture.

 

This is why I asked you for numbers. You do not need to be in a loop scenario. Any farming scenario without scarcity is going to lower overall yields using this skill. That ultimately is the problem with it. It functions solely as a "well I'm too fast so I need to waste some time elsewhere."

I challenge you to show me numbers that prove otherwise. Until then I'm going to go with what I've seen, Scoffer has reported, and many others echoed.

I mean this is about the same as saying you liked picking up the brick so you could smash your own toe with it...

 

By that same logic then would you be happy that the higher level you get in bow it actually does less damage to mobs? I think one of us maybe confused on how progression works....

 

I don't find it pointless. I'd never not use it (for mining anyway). It does what it says it does. It's not a mining DOT. Increases the yield of a node irrespective of time and node spacing.

 

The meticulous 'swing' does use extra time, though.
Its pretty much as Baron's said, there's a level beyond which additional meticulous starts to hamper you and he feels this is by design. Maybe it is. You have to find the point where it equalizes.

If meticiulous did indeed increase the yield of a node with NO additional time investment then there'd be no issue at all.

More time per node = less nodes per hour.
You need to find the point at which the time spent per node yields more than just going to another node.

 

Yes, that's right. The movement cost is the same regardless of whether or not meticulous fires. That is because there is a movement cost to mining but there is no movement cost to meticulous collection. This is precisely why the collection rate of a meticulous is higher than overall collection rates, despite the fact that first swings are more valuable than meticulous swings.

Just because people say something many times doesn't make it true. Meticulous collection is beneficial in every scene in the game that I'm aware of if the goal is to collect as much as possible of the base material of a node. All the skill does is collect a base material at a faster than normal rate. The existence of mob respawns is the only thing that makes it possible for meticulous to lower the collection rate of a base material, and that is more the exception than the rule, especially considering that the skill can be use selectively.

 

Scoffer, wouldn't we have to apply the same premise of your argument in the OP to the bow? We'd have to see the power curve flatten out on bow DPS the higher you got, and it does work that way now.

 

LMAO one day 5 pages and 99% negative as the skill S U C K S - there are a lot of skills like this - I am going to toe the party line with the next statememeny

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"the game in development . . . ."

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No take that with all the grains of salt you want . . .

There are W A Y to many skills that are working out at this time in "developemtn" It is beyond time to stop creating and start finishing / fixing . . . .

On topic truly Meticulous is ATM worthless, and counter productive if you are in areas where there can be spawn that interrupts . . . .

 

Meticiuous collection is beneficial if your goal is to collect as much as possible of the base material of a single node.
Agree completely, have said so repeatedly, and nobody is arguing this.
Meticulous gives you more per node
Meticulous gives you more per node
I'll say it a few more times so its clear that I'm not disputing this.

However:
The time that meticulous costs you to get 1 more base material, vs moving on and hitting a fresh node, makes it yield overall less in a given segment of time.

If there are only 5 nodes and you want to maximize what you get out of them, then yes, by all means meticulous.
But there are very few situations in which there are only 5 nodes, there's always another one around the corner. We aren't gathering materials in a vacuum.

 

Nothing better than a wolf biting your arse when you are 5 deep into a meticulous....

 

Actually to be analogous there would be no flattening out but a gradual decline. That is the premise.

 

And I don't think there's any point at which it would actually be detrimental to raise your bow skill higher. Diminishing returns yes, going backwards no.