Ingame gambling legality

Aye, this is weird. "MP-13" is Origin own system for few Ultima games. That is bit misleading, as it looks like rated for 13 and over, as it looks like PEGI rating.

 

Everquest has gambling built right into the game, and you can buy Kronos with real money and sell them for in-game currency. I haven't seen them run into trouble over it.

 

I don’t see the big deal, personally. Sixteen year old drivers already gamble in a far worse way every day. They put cash into a vehicle via gasoline, then go out n the freeway risking their lives for some thrill. By comparison, worrying about digital rabbit races seem silly. Everything in life is bad if we make it out to be. But some things are much worse than others. This topic doesn’t rise to the ‘concerning list’ for me with all the other threats to kids out there.

 

We have Crafting in the game which is gambling.
We have gamble on loot drops on every mob.
We have Loot bags that sell which are a gamble.
Crit chances are a gamble...

Life is a Gamble every day you step out or into any world, you could die that is a gamble!

Perhaps everyone should just stay home and hide. wait.. what if a meteor hits that is a gamble...

Sure there are laws in each country, The game itself does not promote it but it will still happen as players make it happen. There is nothing that really could be done. People are creative.
I think there are far worse issues out there than what you are suggesting

If we are that concerned that this is an issue in this game, then I feel for the world as we are in big trouble

 

You roll a dice for loot.
You invested in an early access game.

Stop lying to yourselves and just admit that gambling is good.

Eve online had poker in it too.

Kids under 13 shouldnt have any money to gamble anyway. If they do there is probably a bigger problem going on like fraud or theft.

 

When the kids plays mature games, isn't it their parents problem?

 

Exactly. How many kids do you know that play GTA lol. That's an 18 MA title. Its Parents responsibility to police kids not the government

 

Everquest doesn't allow and host RMT between players, and that's a distinction that makes a difference. As strange as it may be, it's fine for people to spend all the money they want gambling with worthless currencies that can't be legally converted to real money.

 

GTA is officially rated as 18 or adults, thats the difference I guess. Atleast everyone knows this, then they make the decision.
It's adults job to create save environment. I just learned today that this game even has somekind of rating. There's no mention about rating at steam or frontpage or faq.

Lot's of kids play GTA and a lot plays counter strike and spend their christmas/birthday steam wallet gifts to skins and loot box gambling. ( This is going to change, atleast it has caught some attention)

If this game is really going to be rated ESBR M rating or PEGI 16 or 18, or otherwise pointed out that its really a game for mature audience, then I see no problems with this.

 

I would advice not using specific countries as examples when you know nothing about them other than what limited news will filter your way through whichever selective bubble you are in.

Please feel free to send any prejudiced articles that you have used to validate your preconceived opinions my way in PM and I could easily explain why they are incorrect and show similar examples from your own country. Since I'm guessing from your history that you are from the US then I can assure you that the PC is much worse and more legally binding in the states than they are over here.

<<points to avatar info

 

I'm not going to pretend to be a legal expert on this subject...

However, something I think is relevant is that a minor can't have a credit card, PayPal account, bank account without permission from parents or guardians, and otherwise it would have to be loaned to them. Second, I was able to do a ton of things legally I normally wouldn't have been able to as a kid simply because I had my parents' permission... Including drinking wine at a restaurant, and putting some quarters in a slot machine.

So, what does it come down to? How the game is advertised ratings wise? How players activity is policed or how open advertisement of player activity is policed?

Also, I'd just note whether you're gambling something of value I'd guess depends on the amount of igg you put in. 1 gold is a fraction of a fraction of real money, just like in real life, peanuts constitute a fraction of a fraction. Players could always voluntarily impose limits on the gold you can gamble, if the point is to do gambling soley for RP.

 

I can't speak for other countries, but here ( Finland ) we have Paysafe cards, that are basically pre-loaded disposable creditcards. Those are sold to minors as well as steam gift cards etc and I would guess this same happens in other countries too. Those cards work just like credit cards, except without real credit, other than what you loaded on it.

We also have very strict rules for slot machines and other games found at shops and gas stations and such, minors don't play those, because you get fines for that, its that simple really.

And yes, it should be advertised as mature game, if it is one. Not with shady MP-13 rating that hints it's suitable for teens?

 

Well it's a good thing I'm from Sweden too otherwise I wouldn't have been able to take the day off work so I could call the mansplaining hotline about this post.

*Runs a bubble bath*

 

Mp-13 is for mature not for teens. 13 has nothing to do with age.

 

Here's a serious legal question...

If irl, I owned a mall with a legal casino in it renting space, the casino would have legal responsibilities, but what would my responsibilities be as a mall owner ?

I know that there's extra scrutiny around online platforms, I guess because of anonymity among other reasons, so I know this might not be legally relevant...

 

The casino being mentioned with bunny races was an event held by EVL Guild. This was actually done the first time for Breast Cancer Awareness Month. The intentions were more about having a fun time, wearing pink, and supporting the cause... than making gold. In fact, the bunny races were in memory of one of our guildies (Lacey) who lost the battle with breast cancer. Her favorite in-game pet was her bunny.

Although we plan to do this on occasion, I don't believe it will be a full-time casino to be run as a "business". We are doing another one for Easter (bunny races seemed to fit in here as well) if interested: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...elebration-edition-march-31st-2pm-nbt.112087/

As per the legality of it... betting is done by purchasing "chips" with in-game gold, and payouts are made with in-game gold... all virtual items. There is no real currency transactions being made, only virtual currency. Yes, it is true that IGG can be sold/bought for real money to/through other parties, but that is not part of the "casino's" business. The "gambling" part is done purely with virtual currency and as far as I know, there is nothing illegal about that.

On a side note - in regards to "protecting" minors from gambling in a game - I feel that the onus is on the parent(s) of said minor to monitor and protect them from spending real money for anything related to playing an online game. Any purchase made (whether it be the games Add-on Store or whether it be buying IGG from a third party) will need some kind of bank account or credit card payment. A minor should NOT have access to use either of these without adult supervision. If they do, then IMO, the adult was irresponsible here, not the seller of the virtual goods. It's nearly impossible for the seller to determine whether the buyer is a minor or adult when the transaction is done electronically.

That said, I don't think any issues of minors losing a fortune would arise at an EVL Casino Night. For one thing, we have a limited number of chips to go around for all participants so one person cannot buy an endless amount of chips. And we won't take an enormous amount or value of bets from a single player if they appeared to be showing a gambling addiction. Again, we do these for community gathering events and not to make gold.

 

Part of the problem is that whenever this subject does come up, a high percentage of the opinions expressed are based on what people feel is right, or what makes sense, or what is logically consistent, as opposed to what's actually legal and how laws are typically enforced. To be fair, even if a person does a lot of research on this subject and follows it closely for a long time, it's still something that just lacks a lot of clarity.

Here are some things that are fairly certain and possibly relevant to SotA:

-As an American host, it's fine to sell people digital currency that can be used in gambling games but not cashed out. It's also fine to have a limited amount of drawings, prizes, etc, within rules. This is the category that facebook gambling fits into.

-As an American host, it's not fine to sell people unlimited amounts of digital currency for the purpose of gambling that can be converted back into money by the host.

-What is actually considered to be illegal online gambling has never been clearly defined in the US. However, there is a legal onus on banks and payment processors to not facilitate it, so something doesn't actually have to be illegal to get shut down. It only has to be close enough to scare people into dropping it.

-There is a big legal difference between what people can do via 3rd party black markets and what they can do within the rules of a game. This is something that's already been ruled on in the US.

-Just because a game has some gambling elements or randomness in it, doesn't necessarily make it a gambling game. For example, there is a big difference between something like the monthly lot drawings in SotA or little ticky tack games between players and an in game casino that people can constantly pour money into. Even in the case of an in game casino, a game can still be considered to not be a gambling game, which is something that's also already happened before.

-Anyone that claims to know exactly what is and isn't legal wrt to online gaming in the US is full of ****. The laws are unclear and the enforcement is random and nonsensical. Also, just because something is legal doesn't mean that it won't get shut down or get you sued.

My advice to players would be to not worry about small stuff. It's almost certainly fine, and probably no one cares even if it's not. My advice to Port would be to never creep up to the gamble line with this RMT system.

 

Ottherwise gamble could destroy the game economy. So I think it needs restrictions. Maximum win pool or something.