The way the deck system should work

sorry that response doesn't make sense to me. I can hit a key on a keyboard just fine. When might i use vanish? maybe after I ran to a spot that I think nobody can see me, and then disappear before they catch up to where I am. You can't be waiting for the spell to appear, and I don't particularly like having to lock the skill because you really shouldn't lock that many skills.

Teleport also requires excellent timing for it to be used tactically. Fireball explodes covering their field of vision and you teleport behind the enemies and they didn't see it! That is a good example of a quick macro you set as CONT+ALT+T or something like that to teleport you.

EDIT: I wouldn't mind having the ability to place icons on my desktop. that may not work for you but it might work just fine for me.

NEW EDIT: I REREAD THE POST I QUOTED AND I UNDERSTAND IT MUCH BETTER, BUT I'LL LEAVE THIS POST UP BECAUSE I THINK IT HAS SOME GOOD POINTS.

 

From the start (including the Kickstarter dev hangouts where Chris first talked about combat) there has been mention that there would be some exceptions to the "you need to draw a skill to use it". I think the examples given were specific combat initiation skills, for example. I'm not sure about skills like "Vanish", but considering it requires you to stand still for it to be effective, I can't imagine that it would be a random-draw skill. So as far as I know, the plan is for a "hybrid system" from the start.

 

Interesting question, will any skills/spells always be available even during combat?

What are the numbers they tossed out for locked skills? 4-6 I think? If you use teleport/vanish a lot during combat you'll probably want to lock those 2, still leaves you with more locks. Plus, those are exactly the type of abilities you would want locked as I doubt they'll have a combo-ability (I could be wrong).

I don't think blink will be nearly as handy as teleport was in UO because in UO I only used teleport to get to places I couldn't walk to. This was useful for avoiding enemies and casting an energy vortex next to them. I could teleport on otherwise unreachable cliffs or behind stuff in caves so I couldn't be hurt or to escape when people tried to block me in with boxes. With blink it has the stipulation that it checks to make sure you can walk to that place. Sounds less handy.

Invisibility and Vanish look like they'll work the same, it was always a good way to avoid monsters, run past a bunch, invis your self, they wander off then you are free to attack just what you want instead of luring all 10 monsters you just passed. I would assume most people would want to use this ability that same way so either they need to make it available all the time or just design it knowing that people will 99.9% of the time put it in a locked skill slot.


So another possibility is that they classify these skills as non-combat. They don't damage or heal, they are utilitiy skills/spells. And make all utility spells available all the time. I think that is what we will most likely see. I would also expect some skills/spells that can't be used in combat at all.

 

You have keys that look like this:
dodge (this can be a double tap)
defend
cc/interrupt
attack (could be on mouse)
finish

A special card gets drawn for dodge and now you can use it to vanish, blink across the screen, or whatever other dodge like things may come up. No locks, macros, or other keys needed.

Being able to vanish from combat or teleport out would be very OP to use at will. This preserves the intent of the cards (a throttle mechanism on otherwise OP skills) without the weird UI.

 

I actually re-read your post and it made more sense to me. Sorry.

 

Another instance that I would greatly appreciate the ability to set a hot key to initiate is the use of bandages and potions.

That way we can initiate a bandage heal immediately on the spot in the middle of combat. This is useful for your self but also healing others who become in need.

EDIT: I wouldn't mind the card system too much if this was added along with spells being accessible.

 

That's kind of the point to having spells. It's what draws the line between the classical Warriors and Magic users.
Someone pops invisibility? Start dropping AOEs on top of where they just were.

 

If rogues have a "confuse" spell, I will be very disappointed, as this is exactly the kind of thing that I don't want to see in this game. How, exactly, does the rogue pull off this trick to confuse everyone? Non-magic users shouldn't be able to replicate magic effects, otherwise there's no point being a magic user.

I know it's a fantasy game, and not supposed to be realistic, but I like my games to be believable - that is, they emulate real combat as much as possible. Combat isn't predictable, so I don't like systems that try to make it predictable. Personally, I prefer the old "click the button and watch them fight" mechanic, but I know I'm in a minority here. I like the idea of the random deck system because it indicates the fact that, while you can do all of these fancy moves, you can only do them when there's an opportunity to do them. Having these moves available all the time is like being able to defend with an overhead block even if the person does a low thrust.

Besides, every MMORPG in the world does this. Why not try something different? Now's the time to experiment.

 

Decks sound like combat will be a tedious administrative affair of getting your stack of file folders in order, staples in the right corner, and insuring the cover page is right for the TPS report. Heaven forbid you get pulled into a meeting with the wrong file folder - it would be disaster. Of course at some point everyone would have the same decks since there is an "uber for this patch" mix-n-match thus rendering decks pretty much an effort of tedium to stay ahead of the patching.

Decks do not sound fun at all, that is why I don't play Card Hunter or Might and Magic nor Pokemon.

If there is a method to maybe hybridize combat into combos then why not steal from the warden in LOTR?

 

Still my favorite fighting style of all time the LOTR warden

I do want to try the deck system tho...

 

"uber for this patch" Hmm. unlikely, considering there wont be traditional dungeons/raids where you need to fill this role and do it to the best of your classes ability. There will likely be various builds in PVP that is "the best" depending on the type of character you want to play, just like UO had many viable builds for pvp.

"decks" or anything like it aren't used in might and magic or pokemon. Card hunter sounds interesting, I might have to check that out.

(although it is a different system, from reading about it, it's turn based and you get 4 cards, use 1 discard 1, get 2 new cards)

 

Never played LOTR but just let us assign skills on our keyboard and im fine.

 

The problem i see is when people are hypothesizing about combat and implimenting stuff based off of guesswork. Go ask a navy seal if he gets flustered or forgets much during combat. They are so highly trained for everything that very little surprises them and have tactics for nearly every situation.

They say they want to add more choas to combat but theres better ways to go about it suc as making encounters with better ai that is unpredictable instead of keeping derpy ai and making the player an equivalent derp by hardcoded mechanics.

Im not saying there isnt chaos in battle but to a well trained soldier they can deal with it efficiently and effectively. Leaving such important things to chance is the most un avatar like thing i can imagine. Its inevitable that with this system ppl will get bum card drops and die because of it. I have no problem dyigbecause of my mistake but i do have a problem dying because of a lame mechanic

 

yeah when those navy seals get attacked by an ogre they always remember all the words to their fireball spell.

 

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I don't think I'd enjoy a system where your life and death depended on split-second timing and using your double-thrust ability at the right moment, and not half a minute earlier. From what I hear, it sounds like your standard attack will be sufficient for most encounters, and the special attacks are just to help you out a bit.

Every MMORPG in the world uses the system of "you can do a really strong attack, but you can only do it every 5 seconds, for some reason, and for the rest of the time you must do a less effective attack!". I'd be in favour of something different, because I'm fed up of games where my avatar's prowess in battle depends totally on how often I can spam my best abilities, and whether I can press the right hotkey to use the 'interrupt' ability in time. I'd much rather it depends on the choices I make in his development.

Can we at least see how it works before judging it? It might end up being worse, in which case they'll probably tweak it, or scrap it completely. Or we might all be surprised, and it might work really well. But until we've seen it in practice, at the moment we can only speculate.

eta: Navy Seals - I see your point, but these are highly trained elite soldiers. They are not the equivalent of level 1 characters. You don't get to start as a Navy Seal. You start as a Private in some light infantry regiment, if you even start in the army at all. If you want to be a Navy Seal, you have to earn it. That's the other thing I'm fed up of: games where you start as a hero from day one, and can already do amazing things that the average soldier can't ever hope to achieve.

 

Amen!

 

if i have a potion of healing, will i need to wait until the deck allows it before i can drink it? (i hope not)

What happens if the npc's was to use a deck system?

 

It might work that way for a healing spell, but I can't imagine that potions, which are physical items as opposed to 'knowledge' will be in the decks. The deck should be full of things you know how to do i.e. - spells, maneuvers, dodges, parries, etc. Things that you are carrying should definitely be separate and useable separately.

If it's not this way, then I think there might need to be a discussion about the process. R4 will tell the tale if I'm not mistaken.

 

Said it five times ill say it again. I dont have to play ot to realize it makes no sense and that i dont like it. And i dont plan on being level one forever so the point at which i become the equivalent of a templar i should stop having random abilities thrown at me.

Everyone is sick of the combat formula but its very functional thats why its been around so long. And there are many different styles of combat i suggest trying a wider range of games if u think they are all like wow.

Lets do a modern equivalence. Oh geez im out of ammo but since my grenade didnt proc ill just throw a flare.

If it were perhaps situational and reactive and it knew what ability u needed instead of being completely random it would be better but introducing complete randomness in player actions is just trying to hide a bad ai system cause if mobs were smarter it would have all the chaos needed

Instead of making the player suffer thru random luck id rather try making the ai more reactive that would make up the needed chaos.

Even using a time period correct equivalence it still makes no sense seeing how templars were basically the navy seals of their day. Im pretty sure they didnt forget how to parry in the middle of combat. Its so highly trained as a reflex u dont think about so by definition muscle memory cannot be forgotten

 

There is supposed to be a Fun factor involved. Many people actually enjoy Gambling. People actually enjoy randomness. People like the strategy and tactics used in constructing decks in games like Magic the gathering, thunderstone, and dominion. it's kind of like having a random cooldown timer that you can adjust based on what you want to do.


Your comparisons to real life just don't matter in games. The standard cooldown systems in games don't make sense in real life either so it doesn't really matter if it has correlation in real life.

mmjarec, they have stated you can lock your skills, you don't get combos, and you can use your skills as you please if you desire it. You likely wont be as effective as someone who has built their skills and uses random ones. I'm guessing most of us will be using a skill or 2 in a locked position... and for those who just cant stand the thought of not having their abilities available all the time will simply lock them.


"at this time" the potions are put in your deck as well. I'm not sure if that will change, I'm sure it's something we can play test and see if it works better with a cooldown timer and use at will or if it's more balanced in the deck.