The way the deck system should work

I'd like it to be totally random, where you never know what will happen.
Suspense and tension...let the cold hand of cruel fate roll the dice.

 

Parry was just an example. Just as is this. People dont forget how to fight or use weapons. A fghter wouldnt go into combat without having muscle memory trained. People dont go into combat as a novice. Just unexperienced. I could see a rookie freezing up but how does that translate into a random ability. If anything it would be reaction time. And they arent rookies forever. Nobody will be a perpetual novice ingame. I can see minor tweaks like increasing ability usage time or cooldown for novices but i dont comprehend how reaction time morphs into random abilities

Ya mma fighters screw up their moves but again in no way did they forget it outright like sota champions. They still have the choice on maneuver to preform.

This system equates two things that arent connected. A knight trains from the age of 8 or so and does so everyday. And nowhere in any literature does it mention any knights forgettinghow to swing their sword. I just dont see the connection. Like i said there are a plethora of better idea that represent battle chaos

 

That is why you still fight normally, you don't wait for your attacks to come up, you still continue to attack/parry/dodge as you normally would IRL. You aren't freezing up. So I don't get your argument here. You don't stop swinging your sword for this system, you still do that. That is your normal attack, The "specials" are on the deck system, not your normal attacks.

 

It's not about forgetting how to swing a sword. It's about the number of star which have to align for you to attempt the advanced more "decapitate." You can swing the sword all day. That doesn't require a skill. But this advanced move simply requires you to be in the perfect position and your opponent is in just the wrong position, and this requires a chain of things to happen some of might be a combo that you're doing and others might be simply many factors.

It's like asking why a quarterback can't just keep throwing 40 yard TD passes. You may do a few things to set this up, but a whole lot of good stuff has to help you. You make a few good calls, see a window of opportunity, decide to try it.

 

And why arent my specials on my keyboard instead, why should i have to focus on cards when i could have my focus on the battle instead?

So far no one managed to answer that question.

It would be exactly the same but better when it comes to focusing on what is going on, i dont need to watch cards.

 

Obvjously i was using it as a comparison since you cant cast a fireball in real lfe to forget it. You are taking me literally. I use weapons as its the only real life comparison that can be made

Maybee this one is better. Say you reach on your vest to throw a grenade and it turns into a puppy. And actually swinging a sword takes a ton of skill to do it correctly and not injure yurself

The way i understand is only magic abilities will be random. What about melee moves or is there just an auto attack and no abilities like say overhead chop or whirlwind or something

Setting up abilities in chains is no different than how current mmos operate IE aion. I dont see how you say make a few giod calls when the call is made for you and all you do is hit a hotkey to execute it. Im all for having abilities that build iff one another but waiting for them to randomly shuffle in is what i dont like. Some shouldbe reactive others should be chained together for combo otherwise like i said if its rAndom its a matter of time till someone gets a bad cycle and is unable to do crap due to bad luck. Sheesh i wish i could have used my combo but i forgot the opener and since the computer uses differet mechanics his ai is more or less constant thus you lose based off bad luck and decision making had nothing to do with it

 

Not ment to be an insult to anyone but if they are trying to make it more chaotic like real combat one will never understand how it is unless one has been in combat and so far it seems like the only ones that have a problem with the combat are those who have been in combat or at the least have served and studied it.

Its kindof like the president trying to tell alan greenspan how the federal reserve works

Instead of just having one new untested system isnt taking the best ideas from around the genre and implimenting them finely tuned together a better idea? Im saying sure add the deck system but why should it be the only feature? Why not add the deck system for cc mechanics. Aiming from wildstar or tera and combos etc just maje it a variety of versatile mechanics instead of just one.

Its like they are taking the good ideas from the last decade of development and not even considering them. Personally i think a combination of all the besf ideas is the best way to proceed. They dont have to outright copy them but can use the fundamental concepts to create something truly unique. The deck sustem has been done before they are just taking it a step further but why take a step down a path that is riddled with problems

 

This question has been answered many times, you don't seem to accept it as an answer though. 1) the whole purpose of combos is to make a powerful attack if you are lucky enough to get the right skills. 2) You can have them locked so they are available, but you lose your combo ability. 3) Many people wont be focused on their skills coming up, many will get the hang of it and pay attention to the combat. I kept my eye on my cooldowns on abilities in other games using peripheral vision I don't see this as being any different. 4) this is part of the exciting bit of combat, a little uncertainty, this isn't purely random right now so you can have an idea of what will likely come up.

 

mmjarec this is the list of skills we have been provided thus far:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/magic-combat-and-crafting-skills.3937/


Note that some are available outside of combat and some arent. Dodge and Parry are listed but you'll note that they increase your defensive values, it isn't an active dodge/parry. (This could mean raising your Armor value, or they might have a %dodge %parry chance that is increased, unknown)

Here is the entire description of the combat system:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-combat.4094/


The important thing to note here is that There are locked abilities that will make it more like a traditional combat system that you are requesting.

and here is the FAQ for combat

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=19#faq_120


It seems posts from some members are probably making this whole subject a bit muddy, people are putting their own spin on it so best if we let the Dev's speak for themselves.

 

How could you possibly have any idea about this? Please clarify, because I know who I am and you don't. Insult not intended, but insulting none the less.

The deck system proposed might possibly simulate the uncertainty of actual battle and it might not. We don't know, but I don't think there is any basis to argue that it's not adequate. Thus far you have offered absolutely no evidence to support your position other than some sort of imaginary world where actual warriors never make mistakes and are always able to deliver their absolute best despite innumberable variables. No man or woman is that perfect.

I seriously doubt they will take your advice and copy another game system for combat. There is no innovation there.

 

Actually there is no such thing as original. Its been stated prevoisly that card deck systems habe been used prior.

And i dont see how its insulting to state that someone who hasnt been in combat doesnt know what combat is like. Its not an opinion its a fact. What IS offensive is people that do experience combat being told bu those who havent that they know what its like. I never stated anyone specifically for a reason. As you pointed out i dont know everyones story but i do know that people that are commenting obviously couldnt have all experienced combat its not statistically possible for everyone to know what combat is like. Thats all im saying

I also stated that i didnt want them to copy other games but learn from the concepts and fundamental ideas that have arisen. Seems like a mis understanding because so far what ive said thats been reiterated back at me isnt accurate
I never said warriors never made mistakes i said they get to make reactionary decisions based on the situation so please try to not mis represent my statments please

There are thiusands of years of doccumented warfare as well as numerous scientific studies that back up what ive said. Anyone whi claims to know what combat is like without experiencing it is just fooling themselves
So once again pleae dont sensatioanlize and overly dramatize with false represenatations of what was said
Sure they can claim to know about combat i never disputed that but as far as what its like nobody knows who doesnt experience it

Until one experiences it all they are doing is making an eduated guess as to what its like. Knowing what happens in combat is far different than how and why

 

Who doesn't know what combat is like? you guys never get in fights?

I didn't fare well.



I've done some wrestling and jeet kune do..

 

Thatll teach you to go slow in the fast lane. Priceless

 

Your wife right ?

 

It is way better to give a skill/spell some random properties instead. Skills/spells i learned and have access to from my keyboard.

In old UO a spell like e-bolt could do a low and high end damage, there were some luck into max/min damage. A combo like explosion/e-bold had in similar ways some random damage. If you as a developer seek some randomness and luck just give a spell/melee skill a high and low end value depending on your characters stats. No need for cards.

There is no need whatsoever to make this game a card game that in a poll on this forum got i hate it as winning. Why the stubborness keeping something that just is not wanted? How many pledgers have SotA lost cause of this combat system is not easy to know but i am sure there are loads of players that seek a player skill based combat system that just walked away when they read/heard about this card combat system. I am not gonna play the game if developers keep this card combat system. I play games that take a lot of player skills and randomness and luck isn't that much part of what i seek in a combat system.

Cards just make PvP unfocused cause you have to look at cards instead of the combat going on and you also make the game alot more luck depending since all your skills isnt available when you could have been in need for just that skill. Some will win a 1 vs 1 cause the game gave them a lucky card, that is so very much wrong that it alone make me dont wanna play the game.

1. If you want a game that is combat unfocused and based on luck and randomness you go for the card combat.

2. If you want a player skill and combat focused combat system with no luck and little randomness then put the skills/spells on your keyboard as in for example old UO.

That is the difference btw these systems and how anyone could see the cards as the better choice are just amazing.

 

Did you just called me amazing?
Gee, thanks.

 

Anything they can do with random cards they can do better with clever mechanics like ara mentioned. How is relying on a lucky card proc any different than relying on combos/crits they are essentially the same thing only one requires too much attention

 

IF you don't like "lucky cards" used the locked skills, don't ruin it for everyone else. Btw, the poll showed most people wanting to try it, not hating it.

Besides, if we had a poll for every feature people wanted this game to be like we'd end up with a clone of all the other failed MMOs. That's how those people designed it, they asked gamers "what do players want?".

 

I believe it is better to ask the players what combat system they prefer. Old UO was not a failure, it was a huge success and that UO combat system was the best seen so far in any MMO game. There is no need to invent the wheel again.

 

Forgive me for this being a little of topic, but i decided to get into this thread today and all this talk about decks reminded me of this...



You need to see this if you haven't.