Housing. A great strength, pricing causing more problems than benefits?

That should probably be addressed. They know they price, there is no reason to have to downgrade size to upgrade. Particularly since it's nerve wracking to remove a claim and do the upgrade while hoping no one steals your spot.

Which is the other thing that should be fixed, let us upgrade without removing the claim! And trade the claim to someone else without removing it, house and all.

 

If I can find the page with current prices for coto upgrades that would help me out. Then I can find the path of least resistance. Does anyone have a link?

Google search shows an older version before the crown 100 multiply.

Ha! I put a copy of it here https://darabrae.enjin.com/mobile/f...611-lot-deed-upgrade-crowns-costs-patched-r62

It should cost 30k total from a taxed town to tax free pot town deed.

 

I found my selection a little hard to make...

I voted:

*
Extortionate, unacceptable. They are killing the game with these prices. Player recruitment and retention

I explained a snippet of why I feel this way in my post above...

While I personally can afford to buy everything, that has nothing to do with the success of the game and player retention.

I do not want to play a game where only people that are financially independent, debt free, and no longer have to work; are the only folks that can truly afford to play it to it's full potential experience without over-extending their financial means in life in their pursuit of everything the game offers.

I hear people brandishing the PAYTOWIN mantra in many posts. The simple yet harsh truth remains, that some people that want to play, that can truly afford to PLAYTOWIN, and as such meaningfully support Portalarium, will have grave concerns about never catching up in a system that started out with Founder's, Benefactors, etc.

The scariest reality in all of this to me is that they cannot legitimately achieve this status without purchasing someone else's account; which Portalarium makes little to nothing off of...irony at it's best!

 

Exactly...

Crafting was NUMBER one in a great poll on another thread, yet you get few if any COTOs for crafting based activities, risk taking, or accomplishments.

How about this for a suggestion as well...

IF YOU CAN CRAFT IT YOU CAN SCRAP IT!

 

Way back in the day I wrote a little thread called "No One Wants to Play A Fantasy Game That Reminds Them That They're Broke" that pretty much sums this up. It talked about how this is a game and that stuff in the game should be played for not bought.

I think it's the number one issue this game had and still has. They're getting much better at it (two free lot deeds for playing) but the problem is still there.

Once upon a time there was a large group who thought this game would be some kind of business opportunity and money making scheme. Mostly in hopes to make the same kind of money UO did back in the day. The problem with that is that UO was legendary BEFORE players started making money, not after.

Again, they're working to fix this but it's hard when there are so many that have spent quite a bit already. I believe the only way to do it is just to take the risk and alienate all the rest of the big spenders still around and change things so that deeds are completely achievable by playing only. Perhaps make the houses placed on the lots vanity/crown store items (or craftable) and let players and guilds play the game for the spoils.

Please stop using this as an argument. It's working against you. The Crowns still are generated by someone's $$$. That means it's still very much a pay to win scenario. So, please, just stop. And no, the drop rate doesn't make up for it AT ALL.

Also, given housing is the best, most focused on aspect of the game, it is not a vanity item. It is a major, if not biggest focus, of the game for most players.

 

I voted the same as you for the exact same reasons.

 

Http://tinyurl.com/racetohome

That was when making gold was hard in the game. It's ten times easier now.

 

I have a had loads drop

 

As a point of clarification, "pay-to-win" describes a situation where the act of spending money gives an individual a power advantage. This situation typically takes the form of powerful gear, stat buffs, or advancement bonuses. In SotA, the only items that could be considered P2W are the prosperity tools, commission free vendors, and obsidian potions. Pretty much everything else in the store is cosmetic, so it wouldn't be considered P2W. In general, buying COTOs is also not P2W.

Prior to the free deeds being given out in the Outskirts and with completion of the story, an argument could have been made that housing was P2W since it was hidden behind a paywall. However, that's now been negated as everyone gets a free house.

The point made by @Vladamir Begemot is still very valid and proven to be true by numerous people that have spent little to no money and have been able to obtain large houses through just in-game effort.

 

Every single MMO I play has some sort of premium currency to buy things from the premium shop, this system isnt new, and for whatever reason, Shroud is the game where the community yells "P2W" the most. I don't know if what causes this so much here.

We are given, for free, a row AND a Village deed, we have the option to upgrade these by trading our gold against someone else's Coto, or buy even more lots. Buying premium currency and trading it for someones normal currency does not constitute P2W, as if it wasnt done this way, black market gold sellers would exist, and this would be the same as now, except port would get no money in the process.

P2W games are games where you can buy resources, experience, power, directly from the game developers, that is P2W, anything else is free market, the players make the market they want, the Devs simply profit from it.

 

Houses are craftable too so those who think housing is pay 2 win are just now just not telling the truth.

Free lot deeds (row and village) and craftable houses = NOT P2W. Plus with COTOs dropping (Mac2 get's 1000 a day or week, I forget which) you can buy the crown store houses for 1,200 - 2,000 for a good home.

 

What will people buy without this? Without expensive lot deeds, a major source of Port revenue is removed. Do you think Port can bet that many, many thousands of new players will come in if they did this? I just don’t agree - if TWO free deeds aren’t keeping players, how exactly will more do it?

I’m not arguing against the general thought here - lower prices or in game ways to achieve would be great. But the game wasn’t built or marketed that way since 2013. Changing it now risks one of the few ways Port makes money. That’s the difficult reality.

 

I guess it comes down to what you are comparing it to.

If you look at the pricing of housing in Sota vs. the pricing of housing in most other MMOs (where you get a residence and perhaps a few services, not comparing to buying your own planet or that sort of thing), then yes, Sota is on the "very expensive" side. Some players see the prices of deeds and are just absolutely floored. A lot of us who've been around for a while don't have an issue with it, it was part of the crowdfunding/backing/etc. and there are established precedents. The taxation is another issue. Sota's taxes - still - are orders of magnitude higher than other games, and many other games have no 'upkeep' costs at all. In other games, the same 'features/functionality' you get with housing costs far less money - pennies on the dollar, really. But most other games have population levels that simply couldn't be supported by non-instanced housing - there simply would not be room. Even here in Sota a large % of residences have moved to pots and nested pots which, while still not "instanced", its off the beaten path. Even today I still find Pots I've never been to especially when its the matter of clicking a name of a place on a list when interacting with a boat or wagon.

Having your house/lot/project becoming "part of the world" is a big justification for the cost but it is also something that for many players is simply unnecessary. If you just want to do your gardening and craft in your house and store your stuff, instanced housing would be sufficient or even preferable. Consider in another game that you can own as many houses as you want, anywhere in the game (instanced from doorways) and you can recall at any time to any of your residences for free and never pay a penny of "tax". Services such as banks, vendors, (and even a lot of deco) etc. for your home are account based and can be placed in all of your houses with a single purchase of the item. Or consider other games where housing is something you build up/earn via in-game means without having to interact at all with the 'real money' market. Some games make this achievement based. Some quest based. Some earning-gold-and-buying-it based. A few older games still have upkeep costs but even in these it is a nominal amount just to ensure you stay active rather than an onerous rent payment that turns the game into a job.

It is relevant to look at how other games do it, because most players who would try sota, unless it is their first mmo, have come here with certain expectations from other games. I know from trying to promote Sota and bring people to it that the cost of things by comparison is an oft-pointed-out issue. "HOW MUCH?" is probably the most common words I hear from my community of gamer friends from around the globe. Considering that in another game the biggest, fanciest, most expensive house option is probably 100 bucks with no tax to pay ever (and also buyable, direct from the devs, for a high in-game gold cost as an option) makes coming to sota and seeing the thousands-of-dollar-castles a bit of a culture shock.

I'm not saying we should change it, just offering some perspective.

If I started playing a new game tomorrow and you told me it would cost hundreds of dollars (or thousands!) to set up my house, decorate it, and set up the crafting benches, bank device, etc. I'd think you were insane. I think the team has made great strides in making housing accessible to players for low cost / no cost by handing out deeds from quests and such. We've come a long way. But the impression of the costs is still an issue of perception. Having a player walk by something that they'll never have unless they're prepared to cough up thousands of dollars will always be a point of contention. Especially when in <other games> they can have the biggest house with all the bells and whistles for a much smaller price tag or through in-game means without having to deal with the 'real money' issue at all.

 

Port could sell:

EXPERIENCE - this creates an opportunity for players to catch up and be meaningful as a standalone player or in order to do level appropriate activities with friends that already play (a huge concern for acquiring and retaining new players)
1- buy a trained clone off the shelf
2- buy a certain level ratio to MPE
90% of Max Player Experience(MPE is the experience level of the character leading the experience race)
75% - 50% - 25% - 10%
MPE creates a mechanism to mitigate the Catch Up concern.
Power Leveling already exists, Port makes $0 on this revenue stream, player transfers already occur and Port makes $0 on this revenue stream, so let's get Port into the value add mode here...

Power Leveling would now have a valid cost basis for the service, characters would have a valid cost basis, and people that wanted to wait, could still avail themselves of this type of service. Port offers a brand new instant update or character off the shelf.

As far as transfers are concerned, make it a process that is in fact officially managed. Charge a fee, require the dropping of guild membership unless guild officer approves continuity of membership, and create a quality process that does not leave new players suspect of the outcome or future when they purchase a character. Allow current players that wish to sell off some exp to do so if they desire, create a methodology for the transfer of experience itself that Port is in the revenue stream on and creates a value add. How many of us that craft would have purchased crafting experience at this point LOL? This balances the generation of crafting experience by hunter gatherers that have no interest in crafting, so all of that experience can be sold off as an asset. This balances the generation of adventuring experience for the systematic grinders that have no need for current experience on a certain character because the toon is where the want it to be, and creates an in game source of revenue for them when they sell off their surplus experience. Again, Port creates the value add revenue stream for this redistribution of experience. Believe me, if you do this right, this could be a HUGE outside the box solution for a great many things...

Publish player gained revenue on leader-boards to demonstrate the QBR and revenue that players are earning. This makes it much more like EVE Online as an example, but in it's own innovative way, where people have absolutely made money off of playing a game, and felt at ease with spending that money on kingdom building and higher level activities.

Deeds and taxes are sticker shock and frustration... Having handed out all sorts of fancy things to folks early on is frustration from the unknown, how on earth am I ever going to catch up if I arrived 2-3-4-5 years late to the party?

 

No P2W please.

 

That post was straight up : "Make Port sell Power so we can buy it and become stronger", yet housing is considered P2W, WTF...

 

Housing is free unless you want something bigger and showoffier.

 

Willful Ignorance over how important deeds are will not win any new players (ESPECIALLY from people who have POTs and multiple deeds). Playing games is all about achievement. A bigger deed is NO LESS an achievement than anything else. It's the same as the achievement of earning a smaller deed currently in-game already or are you going to somehow claim that's different? Legions of previous players can attest. My own entire guild can attest. FFS.

Keeps are supposed to be community structures. Traditionally, especially in games like UO, keeps and castles and other land dwellings were a thing guilds and other communitys would work together to achieve. At least, that's what mine did.

With paid-for deeds and being able to skill up every skill in the game has pretty much killed any and all interdependence, and the community that interdependence creates, MMOs really need to make the game good. Players need major achievements to feel they've accomplished something. The biggest prizes in the game right now are behind paywalls. Period. Again, I'm talking deeds NOT homes. They can cash-shop fancy homes all they want because THAT'S WHERE THE VANITY IS.

I'm sorry, but that's the facts and also a major pitfall in allowing users to dictate game mechanics especially and specifically those that feel they have money to make on a game. I believe we need to concentrate on how to make Portalarium money, not the players.

 

It’s not PTW, you’re living in a dreamworld if you think people are not out there power leveling characters and being paid to do so...

The problem is that Port makes no money off of this.

So it’s P2W to buy an account?

Is it PTW to buy a potion of guidance?

Seriously? It’s P2CU, pay to catch up, with all the other people that have several years head start...

 

Truly you raise faster in this game than any other games I see and why pay for it? Just group up a bit and you will be over the moon in raises. hmmm am I missing something? I have seen players pass me up in level in 4 weeks and I'm adv level 98 and have been here since 2013. (which you see by opening up your paper doll (c key) and pointing at your name. Your skills raise really fast especially if you are in a group that has someone who is a gm in the skills you want to raise.

I am not really grinding much at the moment to get that level higher because I'm doing some other projects but I do group up sometimes also. If I tried I could easily get that adventure level up. Grouping is the way to do that faster. Look at the alt f looking for group or create your own. Any questions ask in Universe chat too if you have an orb. If not I will be happy to ask for you if you send a friends request. I am Majoria in game. I have been here for years and years and years