Nudity and Sexual Content

Dude, you're trying WAY too hard to the point that I feel absolutely no need to respond to anything of that which was directed at (or about) me.

The only thing I will point out is that you don't have to SEE every little inch of skin or drop of blood to understand what just happened. Yeah, a lot of death in LoTR.. I would argue was not gratuitous but we saw just enough to understand how gruesome it was. We didn't need to SEE blood splattering all over the place or entrails flying to understand.

In the same way we don't need to SEE sex acts or full frontal to understand they've occured. Give the audience some credit and not insult their intelligence by implying they have to see every little detail to understand what just happened.

 

I'm with Bowen on this (just to clarify something I was saying above - I'm not advocating for deep violence either, I was just replying to a post above with a possible reason why some people might want to see one over the other if given the choice between them and not everything said in this thread is indicative of the ills of society)

<i>"But when ?everything else? is done, would you THEN accept it?"</i>

This statement is impossible, as there is always something else better to be done with time and money, but no, I still would not want to see this- other reasons were laid out why this wouldn't add to the game and likely would detract from it, even if it were 100% free to put into the game. I would find it to be a poor business decision and would likely lower the majority's opinion of the game - at least the majority of players LB is targeting. It's something that would make one laugh the first time it's seen and then would be abused ad nauseum the rest.

This is not being touted as a replacement for life, so it shouldn't be expected to include every real life function. I don't want them spending money on making me squat in the woods to use the bathroom in full glorious detail every day either, however realistic that may be- not just because it adds nothing to the game but because kids will be squatting in the town streets for laughs every day or running up to me and pooping on my shoes in the forest. Preetttty much the same here. But if I'm chilling with someone in my house and they walk out to "excuse themselves" to pretend to go off to an outhouse, lol, sure why not.

I can see why its hard for a 19 year old dude to understand, but T&amp;A flashed everywhere does not automatically add value to everything, even for people who can otherwise appreciate T&amp;A in a more appropriate time. It does not automatically make things more memorable, more enjoyable, or more realistic - often, it's the opposite and will lessen the value of a well crafted story and environment. In SotA, it would only serve to get one's jollies off or to bring in more "lol boobs" people into the game, and frankly that's just not a plus.

You mention that you are unable to use your imagination - besides that being a "not really SotA's problem" issue, I think an argument could be made that it's likely due to the very thing you're trying to promote - you're used to having everything spoon fed for you, and what you probably need is more exposure to subtlety to regain a sense of appreciation for other valuable story elements while 'filling in the blanks' on these things. More things thrown in your face isn't going to help, and might actually do harm if it leaks past just your enjoyment of media and into expectations for RL situations and relationships.

 

I also only skimmed this thread. I could see this adding some humor, and awkward situations which would make me laugh. I like laughing in games, so that is a bonus. The negatives people have already pointed out. Changing the size of body parts I don't think I could get behind.. other than the wizard shrinking/enlarging for a quest reward would be amusing.

So, is it worth alienating audience and not being able to be carried in stores? I don't think so, it depends on their distribution model, I believe they want to be sold on Steam, so that means keeping it to an M rating. But if some of what you talked about was included in the game for a laugh I wouldn't mind.

I could make some really awkward moments with my dad and brother in game if I made a female (or polymorph/incognito into one).. although I'm pretty sure i'll play male this time, unless they make female only items again with no downside.

 

<blockquote>Seeing Aragorn and Arin bang in LOTR would?ve made the trilogy twice as memorable.</blockquote>

Did I seriously just read that?

 

@Rasaro The problem of AO games not getting carried in stores isn't just an issue with brick and Mortar stores - Steam and GoG both have that same policy, as do most other digital distributors.

Steam has roughly 50-70% of the digital distribution market and 54 million active users, so not being able to release there can have a major impact on sales.

To date, the only AO Games that have had significant sales both started with an M rating, got bumped up to AO, then removed the offending parts of the game to get back down to M (GTA: San Andreas and Manhunt 2).

So, yes, the AO rating hurts sales severely.

 

Is Second Life still online? Plenty of nudity and sex there if that's what your wanting.

People in the west are ultra prudish, a game with nudity just won't fly, sadly enough. Mortal Online has nudity, not much sex unless you consider ganking a sexual activity lol

 

I can easily go without nudity and explicit sexual content; in most video games, it simply looks embarrassing, and mostly it's displayed in an immature way; even in Tv: look at the Game of Thrones Tv series, for example: every 5 minutes nudity of some kind, and it is so ridiculous and embarrassing and by now just tedious. So, like most others said: resources are better spent for other content in my opinion ;-)

 

Maybe SotA should just have a hidden 'Hot Coffee' mode.

 

<blockquote>Maybe SotA should just have a hidden ?Hot Coffee? mode.</blockquote>

<em>Hot Coffee</em> was a hidden thing...more than hidden, really. It didn't work out so well for Rockstar once someone figured out how to enable it.

 

@AndiZ275,

Yea, Game of Thrones was cited to me by people who wanted to watch it with their children, but couldn't because of the gratuitous sex that the show could have done without. Cable shows overdo it for ratings, has nothing to do with art.

That said, I get kind of annoyed where the focus is completely backwards. There are plenty of TV shows which give all sorts of bad messages about sex -- they imply that there are no consequences to sex and you're a loser if you don't have it -- and that's not a problem at all, but if you show any nudity, you're censored. Same problem in computer games. Look at the Sims 3, you have sex with anyone you want to and there are no consequences as long as you turn off the pregnancy option, but the nudity is censored. That's not a problem?

 

<blockquote>People in the west are ultra prudish, a game with nudity just won?t fly, sadly enough.</blockquote>

In the end, it comes down to the point of it. Violence in an RPG has a point; there are monsters to slay, existential evils to overcome, etc. Yes, it's partly a progression mechanic, but it makes sense as such within the context of the story. You're the hero, there's the monsters...have at.

There are doubtless similar ways in which sex and nudity can be contextually valid in gameplay, but the cases are far rarer. Does the nudity in <em>The Witcher</em> (or <em>The Witcher 2</em>) serve any meaningful point in the progression of its plot? Or are they just window dressing, more titillation than anything else? Do I need to see Triss' landing strip in order to get the most out of the game <em>and its story</em>?

 

@mystic: you have a point about that textual intercourse between younger and older players. people are at each others throats over pvp griefing... i wouldnt want a child of mine being griefed by a griefer in any sexual way.

i guess provocative dancing animations and tight fitting armor is all we will probably see. oh well. there's other places on the internet for "players" to "play" their "roles" like that.

@ultima codex: bonus points and +10 internets to you for proper usage of "titillation" in this thread.

 

Mmmmm...fresh internets.

 

I don't know what the US ratings are but as one of those who was campaigning for the introduction of an R rating in Australia I can tell you what our rating system is. Firstly R rating games ARE being sold by EB and JB, there are currently only 3 from memory but God of War is differently for sale. Secondly the violence that people are calling for is more likely to pick up the R rating than any sexual conduct is, skinning characters, mounting there heads, ripping out there bones while the player its happening to is presumably forced to watch is likely to gain the "high impact" which is nessary for the R

However there are threads around which have the potential to make the game unratable at all, the calls for a drug trade in game have the potential to fall under 1 of the exceptions which put a game into the RC category, "DRUG USE
Detailed instruction in the use of proscribed drugs.

Material promoting or encouraging proscribed drug use.
Computer games will also be Refused Classification if they contain:
(i) illicit or proscribed drug use related to incentives or rewards;
(ii) interactive drug use which is detailed and realistic.
"

So it will depend if the classification board accepts that a fictionally named drug is a drug but "shrug"

This is the guidelines for MA and R

MA 15+ - MATURE ACCOMPANIED
Impact test

The impact of material classified MA 15+ should be no higher than strong.

Note: Material classified MA 15+ is considered unsuitable for persons under 15 years of age. It is a legally restricted category.

Classifiable elements

THEMES
The treatment of strong themes should be justified by context.

VIOLENCE
Violence should be justified by context.

Strong and realistic violence should not be frequent or unduly repetitive.

Sexual violence may be implied, if non-interactive and justified by context.

SEX
Sexual activity may be implied.

Sexual activity must not be related to incentives or rewards.

LANGUAGE
Strong coarse language may be used.

Aggressive or strong coarse language should be infrequent, and not exploitative or offensive.

DRUG USE
Drug use should be justified by context.

Drug use related to incentives or rewards is not permitted.

Interactive illicit or proscribed drug use is not permitted.

NUDITY
Nudity should be justified by context.

Nudity must not be related to incentives or rewards.

Note: Some of the terms used in this category are defined in the List of Terms at the end of these Guidelines.
R 18+ - RESTRICTED
Impact test

The impact of material classified R 18+ should not exceed high.

Note: Material classified R 18+ is legally restricted to adults. Some material classified R 18+ may be offensive to sections of the adult community.

Classifiable elements

THEMES
There are virtually no restrictions on the treatment of themes.

VIOLENCE
Violence is permitted. High impact violence that is, in context, frequently gratuitous, exploitative and offensive to a reasonable adult will not be permitted.

Sexual violence may be implied, if non-interactive and justified by context.

SEX
Sexual activity may be realistically simulated. The general rule is
?simulation, yes ? the real thing, no?.

LANGUAGE
There are virtually no restrictions on language.

DRUG USE
Drug use is permitted.
Drug use related to incentives and rewards is not permitted.

NUDITY
Nudity is permitted.

Note: Some of the terms used in this category are defined in the List of Terms at the end of these Guidelines.


Also further up the document it states this:

Assessing the impact of material requires considering not only the treatment of individual classifiable elements but also their cumulative effect. It also requires considering the purpose and tone of a sequence.
Impact may be higher where a scene or game-play sequence
? contains greater detail, including the use of close-ups and slow motion
? uses accentuation techniques, such as lighting, perspective and resolution
? uses special effects, such as lighting and sound, resolution, colour, size of image, characterisation and tone
? is prolonged
? is repeated frequently
? is realistic, rather than stylised
? is highly interactive
? links incentives or rewards to high impact elements.
Impact may be lessened where reference to a classifiable element is verbal rather than visual. For example, a verbal reference to sexual violence is generally of less impact than a visual depiction. Also, some visual impacts have less impact than others: for example, an incidental depiction may have less impact than a direct one. Some depictions in computer games may have less impact due to the stylised nature of computer generated images.
Interactivity and computer games
Interactivity is an important consideration that the Board must take into account when classifying computer games. This is because there are differences in what some sections of the community condone in relation to passive viewing or the effects passive viewing may have on the viewer (as may occur in a film) compared to actively controlling outcomes by making choices to take or not take action.


Ie interactively skinning a character would be considered to be higher impact than a similar scene in a movie

 

I think the "drugs" would be okay, non-realistic, and no benefits to using them... the wouldn't be based on real ones.

The people complaining about Game of Thrones, there is actually more nudity and sex in the books than in the show, they cut a lot of it out, especially so far in season 3.

 

@Redfish and @Mishri OT - I agree with Mishri that GOT is definitely tuned down on the T&amp;A in the episodes. While many of the passages appears gratuitous, they provide a gritty realism of how living was cheapened by the social structure in the story world.

Besides, George Martin is equal opportunity in his depictions.

 

@Bowen Bloodgood. Again, your nose is too high in the air. Demanding more context does not make you stupid and demanding less context does not make you smart. Merely "suggesting" what's happened is what everybody has DONE ALREADY. I think it's weak, boring and I refuse to insult YOUR intelligence by reminding you that not everybody has the same standards as you do.

High popularity doesn't equate to high standard, unfortunately. All you saw in LOTR was a brief sword slide into an armpit, a sound effect, and a death rattle. It's quite a talent to make a dark fantasy for children, but also easy when the camera isn't even spending more than 0.5 seconds on what is supposed to be "gruesome". If I actually saw a piece of intestine fly at my face, I would think "**** has just gotten real. These orcs mean actually mean business". If it was overdone, I would start laughing and wish they would cut back. If it was done right, I would be horrified and actually feel emotion for these fictional characters.

Not to say I can't suspend my disbelief anymore, but it has really gotten tedious.

 

@Dame Lori. I could respond to every point you've made with "you don't REALLY know that".

It's disappointing you've revealed that you're riding a taller horse than Bowen is, but what is even more sad is that you write 10x more jaded and dismissive.

You're assuming something that's never been done before will backfire and be abused. While everyone here understands it DOES more often than not, that doesn't mean we should think to NEVER try/try again differently. Who are YOU to speak for the majority? Who are YOU to say it's a bad business decision? At least Rydel tried to present statistics, but no, EVERYONE has to take YOUR opinion and word for what it's worth. Which is the same value as mine until proven with actual evidence.

The times are changing. While I seek to compromise with the audience in your mind, you completely neglect the audience in my mind. More like, you're so sure the audience in my mind doesn't exist.

WHO said anything about defecating/urinating?? I never wanted to go THAT far. That's entering survivalism, and I at least understand Ultima isn't being made for that. That's for a far better game to be made in the future, and I'd rather focus on the possible priority you are completely taking for granted right now.

"T&amp;A doesn't automatically add to the experience".
This betrays you most of all. I now see you've not read my entire posts if you would imply I think that, but somehow you caught that I'm 19 and suddenly I'm on a couch guffawing with Beavis. I take back saying you are compassionate and understanding. You are the worst kind of high intelligence, which are the insufferably arrogant and disillusioned. I know this is what you are, because you concluded your last post just like "they" do. By attempting to analyze and imply my OWN psyche based on what actions and responses you've seen me display. Why don't you shorten your letter count and just tell me straight up that you think I'm an anti-social basement virgin? What you just did was close enough.

There was also something that had bothered me about your very first post.
It was "As I am a woman and I wouldn?t mind running a brothel in the game and I find nothing offensive about sex or nudity".

Why did you announce this? Why did it matter? It wasn't necessary. For all I know and care, you could still be a man! I can't help but think that you thought your gender and sexual values would be used against you. I think more highly of this community than to assume anyone would do that. You can no longer say the same.

 

I feel my wish for adult content is very humbled before Sir. Asguard, who has been fighting hard so that his country can enjoy even "M-rated" games.

Maybe my text has been tl;dr for most of you. Well then READ THIS:

My endgame is an end to restrictive ratings. Censorship will only end when people finally realize that it's wrong.
What does this has to do with SotA? SotA has the opportunity to take the first step and become a role model. If this game did add adult elements correctly and became popular, then it's Steam that comes crawling and resigning to change itself.

Get it through your skulls that I don't want tits for tits sake.

 

A piece of advice. When you have to start making it personal to try to diminish the other side's arguement you've already lost. Isn't it enough that you've made our point and that the devs will decide? Personal attacks do not improve your standing with anyone, nor do they help your case. Besides that it's against forum policy.

Both Lori's and my posts stand well enough on their own. I have no further comment on this topic. You can go on and on and try to dimish my point of view with personal slurs and implications all you like. It won't change anything except perhaps to have the discussion closed by a moderator.