PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

Acrylic, would you care to expand on the whole attachments/enchantments thing you said earlier. Are you suggesting having different types of gear for PVP and PVE. That idea sounds interesting, but I would like to hear more. I still like the idea of loot flags myself, but I think somebody mentioned the devs said that would be unworkable.

 

But.... you can have the entire world as PvP. Sure, people throw around the 5% number lots, but that is only where EVERYONE that goes into it must PvP. For you and those that WANT PvP everywhere, you already have it in the Blessing of the Oracle.

(This does not constitute agreement that PvE players should have access to every resource/items/mobs that exist in PvP-required areas)

 

I'm having a hard time forming a concrete image of what this will all look like. This controversial thread is here for a reason, and I'm glad its here. I am more worried than I was before reading this thread, however. I am not a huge pvp person, but I don't find games worthwhile without risk. Pvp is a good medium to introduce risk. There are many people who don't want risk, and that is the reason for these watered down, risk-limiting compromises. Everyone is different, but the idea that there should be no tradeoffs for choosing to not engage in pvp or the reverse is tempering my enthusiasm. I've put a lot of effort into staying cautiously optimistic, but this is very trying. More risk should result in more reward. The system described here allows half the population to take no risk and yet have no penalty for that choice. It simultaneously affords the other half no significant benefit for taking what trivial risks remain to be taken. Even in the most harsh enviroment there is nothing stopping a non-pvp player from sticking to town and playing safe. In such a system even the non-pvper benefits from a world of tangibles that are precious precisely because those who buy them can and do lose them. The Alternative, infinitely predictable, completely secure, predefined path, game-life suggests I would do better to set the game to single-player mode, complete the storyline and promptly forgot about sota. I dislike being negative, and I understand nothing is set in stone, but I do not understand the need to so fully remove risk vs reward for everyone when the group that does not want risk can simply choose to take less rewards as a tradeoff. If it is an issue of maximizing the player base we all know those players who require such extreme protections to stay with the franchise are necessarily the least loyal anyhow, otherwise they would play despite risks. So this decision is sacrificing long term player base for short term njmbers, at least as I see it.

 

Perhaps PvP gear should be more encompassing because the play style is more rounded. PvE should be more streamlined for PvE so that people who just want to PvE can do gear progression.

I doubt if it is anything PvE Only players are going to want to hear. Using a sword as an example: The sword I PvP with would be even better for PvE, A PvE sword would also be good for PvE but not so good at PvP.

Using a Crafted PvP sword with enchantments would make it good against Mobs AND Players. The PvE enchantments that PvE players get would be good for only PvE.

This way you don't need to take a Dragon Slaying Sword into a PvP area that has dragons. You do however, need a good Dragon Slaying Sword to PvE without the chance of ever encountering PvP.


Pick it apart! Improve it! Like I say it's just a brainstorm sort of Idea.

There may be a way to allow progression for PvE players, while at the same time keeping PvP more level.

 

No mate none picked the game cause RG game would be surely an open-pvp full loot game,but i think the overall vastly reference to Ultima and Ultima On line series at least pointed to UO veterans that they can expect something that resembles it.And being able to fully loot is the tip of the iceberg.This one way item orientation is the problem.
a)It drives economy away from the players and towards the vendors since after a point blacksmiths for example will be logging in only for assembling a certain epic recipie weapon and maybe speaking in theory making some expendable PvP items in the best chance scenario that he/she has customers of that nature.
b)It drives the play away from the player since you wont be the allmighty warrior that knows his/her moves like the tip of his/her palm.You will be just a host for an uber gear that may well have been bought with the account from an Ebay auction
c)It will unavoidable make people and guild elitist pricks that will judge your performance only if your gear level is right and without the slighest curiousity of your skills with that char (cause in an item-oriented game,item matters by definition)
d)It makes gathering skills and secondary non-combat skills like stealth,lockpick,stealing etc at the best case scenario decorative skills and in worst case completely abundant (since you have static items that player cant lose or is afraid to get them out in the open)
e)It makes housing linear cause the house only works as a decoration and maybe a storage.Nowhere near the feeling of the castle(lets lord of the manor for SoTA) or even the feeling of your little 1 story brick house which like IRL it was your
center of operations and many times your sanctuary from rival guild member or PK attacks.
The list will go on and on and its far away from a simple me taking or not taking an item from a players corpse.Its shifting the gameplay from the player and focus on items.Speaking in general it doesnt matter how you want to call it.And it has nothing to do with people being good tempered PvE adventurers or ill tempered PvP PKs that want to ruin your gameplay.Is just your wish to show your shiny item in a big city square until the next patch that will introduce new loot table will come.
If you could bypass all the farm to get to that item it wouldnt matter to you,you would gladly accept it so you can show off your item and maybe duel (Without risk of course) with some people just to show how your sword can pew pew a player in seconds.So where the whole story will take place?Or best asked:Who will be the creator of the story?The valiant knight Sir Silent Strider that with unmatched skills (earned both from pve and pvp combat since a story in a fantasy medieval world has unpredicted threats ) Or it will be the story of the i dont remember his/her name that had the 1337 omgzOr Thunderfury Sword and such?

 

Maybe you could separate some of your gear. Maybe get gear that can only be used when flagged PVP. This gear could have more bonuses, but always be a lootable item. That way you get a bonus for going PVP, you risk some neat gear when you die, you get neat gear when you win, and you can still keep your nonPVP gear safe and don't risk messing up your gear progression. I have no idea if this is a workable solution, it just sounds kinda fun to me. Please, discuss.

 

Have some battle standard that you place on the ground that give you a certain bonus within a certain radius, oh and anyone can pick it up after the battle is over.

 

Have not seen anything being said about loot flags by the devs, could you please link to that.

From what I have seen so far being able to opt in/out for more/less loot drop is the one thing that would give me what I want with little compromise. I'm not saying this ransom system wont work just highly sceptical.

And I really wish we wont see diffrent gear for pve/pvp. just wanted it out there

 

PvP should motivate people to do it.A gameplay that encourages the player to get outside of safety needs to be implemented.Items,enchantments that you suggested,getting your home town attacked by a guild and the danger of having bigger taxes or vendor prices as i have proposed whatever.It should be encouraged in the same way we get in adult life knowing the risks involved (that laws may protect but we know that the eye of the law isnt always next to everything happening to us).
A PvE experience should be like experiencing life from your house.Limited resources,limited experience,limited risk and gains as well.In order to evolve as characters we are "forced" to open our wings and experience life with risks and gains involved and through them prosper.We can always in theory stay,safely guarded by our parents love,in our house BUT we cant have a nice car like our neighboor who when the time has come left his house and got a job,because our parents allowance doesnt allow it.
By PvP and be open for full loot a person should be rewarded in the same way like a person becomes a fully fledge working adult.In the same way as a PvE indoor experience(where your parents are replaced by devs that keep you safe and fueled in the same way that parents give you money or feed you) must limit the players abilities (imagine a person at his/her 30s with no real life experience except his/her house).
But again for all that items must be easily replaced,giving mild bonuses to players in order to improve their already" earned by gaming" experience gameplay and in the same time, avoiding the alteration or the disguise on a players gameplay that a very strong item will inflict (a very strong item will just make the player to lazy to improve his/her gameplay since all the work is done by the weapon proc's and the armor bonuses)

 

Now I can't find the post. Maybe it didn't exist and my mind is just trying dash my hopes for flags.

Why don't you like the idea of separate gear? I would really like to know if there is some inherent problem with the idea that I don't recognize. Thanks for responding to my solution idea. I'm getting tired of only reading arguments about game mechanics with no suggestions for improvement.

 

Most likely the post being referred to is this : https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f.../pvp-current-thinking.8129/page-6#post-136687 (Dev+ required)

 

I had not seen any such statement from the devs either, so if someone can link it, that'd be great.

I cannot imagine why a PvP flag *is* workable and a loot flag would *not* be... Sure, it's gonna be extra work, but so would any other feature be, and TBH I think this would be a stretch goal they could put in place that would get a lot of PvP people to increase their pledge or decide to try it if they haven't pledged yet!

 

Why, exactly, does PvE have to be related to childish behavior? Why is PvP the only "adult" option. I find this entire post more than a little condescending. Why exactly is there "no risk" in a PvE environment. I've played dozens upon dozens of RPGs in my lifetime. I've died, lost companions, failed quests. I took risks, with nary another player around.

PvP oriented play is not "better" than PvE play. All these requests that PvPers should be rewarded simply for engaging in their preferred playstyle seem gratuitous to me.

To all the PvPers offering constructive criticism and new ideas, this is not aimed at you. Only at the quoted post and similar.

 

What I'm looking for really is the thrill when doing pve with the possible encouter of a human foe, am I then supposed to switch gear to have a better chance at taking him out? Please explain further if this problem has already been sorted.


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They reference Ultima 4 - 9 and Ultima Online in it's entirety. We do not get to cherry pick pre Tram UO and only reference that.

This is a big assumption. What is does do is keep it from being centered in PvP and centered in death. We do not know how item decay will work fully but item decay is the economic driving force, not PvP looting.

Are you saying the "allmighty" PvPer does not know his/her moves? Item affinity could easily make Ebay gear a generic pile of starter gear. (Note* EBay prohibits the sale of virtual goods unless you are the owner of the intellectual property)

They have repeatedly stated that will be no gear escalation. Only a gear variance, such as Full Plate armor is going to be different than Ring Mail.

SotA will be having separate skill treats for crafting and combat. If these skills have not value, it's probably going to be addressed in their repective Mega threads.

SotA will have guild vs guild and full world open PvP, the house retains it's value.

The shift is from PvP to Death. We have no idea how item decay will impact the economy. Players could easily lose more items in the long run, from death. This puts the economy on PvP and PvE, and any other reason someone dies.

 

They have not explained how PvP specific gear will work.

 

Ok but they way I see it the only way it could work would be enchanting your gear but that sounds more than abit tedious to need to do over and over again as you will lose gear, also a katana that i can slay dragons and beasts alike should be able to slay a puny human.

Consider this post wild speculations because like you said there isn't enough info on this yet.


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Ah I see. I was saying that you have gear that can only be used when your PVP flag is on. You can still use that gear when doing PVE stuff as long as you are flagged for PVP. The items flagged PVP will always be lootable items. I think this would help encourage PVP without forcing it on anyone. I think it will also be enjoyable to the people that want to loot cool gear, and have their cool gear be lootable. I think the PVP gear should have bonuses that apply mostly to PVP combat. That way nonPVPers will not be upset that they don't have equal access to the PVP type gear. Are there any other problems people see with this idea. I would really like to know. With more viewpoints, and more discussion the idea can only get better.

 

OK, read that, and though it was not well thought out when I saw that, but did not see it as saying it is not possible, just as may not be practical. I'm not certain if we can discuss the details from that thread, now the exact same thread is in public, but BT made a huge error in his thinking there!

Let's just say (and those who have Dev+ can correlate what I say to that statement, and see where BT's error lies) that if you opt to go full loot, it doesn't matter to you whether you lose from 1, 2 or 20 persons... That by itself IMHO invalidates the entire argument BT made in the above referenced thread...

 

That only leaves how you acquire the gear (see post above) however some of that I could live with if I can lose it all in a flash, brings all the more to my experience

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