PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

I'm not sure I see the problem with the system? is it because it is not full loot? maybe a combination of loss of item and this....??

 

Doc, as I understand it DarkStarr played Lord Blackthorn in UO. Combined with the context of the first para you didn't quote, I thought his meaning was well expressed, he was putting his game preferences in an engaging RP context relevant to the OP.

 

The problem for me is I wont lose my stuff wich is exactly what i want (example I would be content with me losing everything while pker gets a little and the rest is destroyed) I'm fully aware that most wont agree with this. Point is I want t lose my stuff when I die therefore loot flags still sounds like the best option to me.

Still kudos for trying to be a solution and not an obstacle.

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Having to stagger back to town in shame, missing an ear, and find a craftsman to hammer my gear back together then trudge back out to the scene of the crime to pick up my rocks or logs or whatever... that doesn't seem like a good time to me. Costs me time, money and reputation... plus humiliation and irritation.

On the pk'er side, they have the thrill of the hunt/kill plus whatever gold & materials they took and maybe some quality gear that just needs repaired by a craftsman.

The 'magic free lunch' here may not be either side's ideal but... perhaps it would be tolerable for both?

 

I just don't see the whole full loot thing coming. This makes it so you take a significant hit in resources to repair damage....seems it would have teh desired effect.

 

Yeah for many it probably would suffice, for me personally it sounds less harsh than what we have now and what we have now most likley wont keep me playing.

Care to explain why "full loot" (loot flags) is far fetched? Everyone gets to choose for them self. Loot flags doesnt have to mean full loot either, could just aswell mean dropping double to normal standards.

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Sure. IRL, you blow someone up or whatever, then what they had on or were carrying is likely to have been damaged or destroyed. Perhaps a blast from a mage should cause more damage to gear than getting stabbed by a swordsman?

I'm not much for PVP but if it was done with class aand style, didn't mind over much getting off'ed. The 'ganking' by juvenile delinquents was what really, really pissed me off.

As was mentioned early in the thread, pk'ers make it foolish to take good stuff into the field... so people tended not to unless they were packed up. Solo'ing in UO was hazardous, especially after school got out in irl.

The magic free lunch would prevent the devistating losses while still allowing death to 'sting' a good deal and at the same time allows pk'ers some reward... but with a cost due to their choice of behavior.

 

Why would it be foolish to take out your good gear?(better gear better chance of survival, crap gear equals death equals dumb?) You can only get PKed if you opt in for it.

If you arent much for pvp then opt out likewise I should be able to opt in for an even harsher world, now if that makes me dumb or whatever that is the way I want to play and im clearly not alone. Quite frankly your proposal doesnt give me that excitement as you get to keep your items.

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A lot want full loot then in the next sentance say they should get specail extras ford oing that risk. The devs have been against full loot...and with the added lose and item plus damaged items it is harsher then what they said.

 

I have no Idea. The only time I have ever heard Blackthorn mentioned in these forums was myself explaining what my avatar is (a macro photo of my Blackthorn action figure).

WTF is "Sherry the Mouse"? Sounds like fan fiction from a Free Open UO Shard.

 

I was referring to some experiences in UO that I found ruined the game. Packs of gankers attacking low level players outside of towns. Tell me you don't like that kind of crap?

Would it not be necessary to opt in or out of PVP if PVP could be prevented from becoming just a bunch of jerks running around slaughtering everyone they see?

 

I guess I don't know enough about UO lore, cuz it still doesn't mean anything to me. No big deal really.

 

I think you need to read this thread again or for the first time, what you are talking about cannot happen with the current proposal or with the two others that I am backing.

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Sherry the mouse first appeared in ultima VI if I remember right, she was a talking mouse and you could recruit her to the party! She was able to get to certain areas which couldn't otherwise be accessed. I think she cropped up in later ultimas as well.

 

They could have given players a counter attack to the strategy, an ability that takes the power of one of the attackers divided by the number of attackers and debuffs the group. A counter strategy would have made more sense than a nerf padded world.

PvP is winning or losing. The whole nerf world enigma is a direct result of sore losers.

 

Not to further derail this thread, but yes. Ultima VI. You needed her to get the rune of Valor. She's also in Ultima VII BG. She has the most ridiculous pink bow and is nearly impossible to click on to start a conversation.

 

For me, at least, the option to opt out of PvP is still necessary. Unwanted PvP will still ruin my play experience even if it doesn't have any big consequences or if I win the fight. For me it's about the fact that I'm facing actual persons in a situation that isn't just a friendly sparring match, not about the consequences per see.

Like I said in previous posts I don't engage in non-consensual PvP. Never did, likely never will. I would rather suicide my character than defend myself, and would rather leave a game I otherwise love than handle non-consensual PvP that sets me back in any way.

(When the non-consensual PvP doesn't set me back I treat it just like an annoying fly; irritating, but bearable. I still suicide my character rather than fight back, though; not going to give the attacker the satisfaction of actually having a fight.)

 

Don't discount the affect of Sore Winners. Many that explain their dislike about PVP aren't necessarily about losing, but how they lost and/or treated afterwards. Emotional scars take their toll and everyone handles it differently. Sore winners and losers probably still only account for the extreme minorities with others simply reacting or positioning based on their experiences dealing with them.

 

I am going to try again to get everybody to list they're opinions on what they like so far. If we want the devs to actually think about implementing some of the ideas we come up with, we need to let them know what is popular and what isn't. So please list the current options (below), in order of what you like most to what you like least. If you have a new idea, explain it and add it in to the list. We can sit here and argue the merits of each system all day, but if we don't give a clear indication of what is popular, the devs are likely to ignore our solutions. Then we'll be stuck with the current mechanic that, if this thread is any indication, is very unpopular.


So far I have seen the following ideas for a more "full bodied" loot mechanic.

1. Loot flags, with the lowest option between the combatants being used.

2. Certain gear or certain enchantments on gear that can only be used when your PVP flag is on, and are always lootable.

3. Looting items takes a certain amount of uninterrupted time. The amount of time items take depend on type of gear.

4. Getting broken items as loot. Being able to use the broken items to craft new gear.

5. The "fee lunch" option. Victor gets a bunch of broken or damaged gear that needs to be repaired before becoming usable. The loser still has his stuff but it is all badly damaged.

That's all I remember off the top of my head. Anybody want to weigh in on the pros and cons of each? Their personal feelings on what's best? Different ideas for loot mechanics? Possibly we could all rank the existing ideas from best to worst in our own opinions?

 

I like #1 best. Then #3 even 1 and 3 combined could be cool. Then #2 but I prefer that there are no items specific to PvP. After that #4. I wouldn't even add #5 as at all acceptable because if I loot something from you that is gear, it is because I don't want you to have it.
If we are fighting, it is because you attacked me or deserved for me to kill your Avatar. I wish to disable you from ever attacking me with that weapon again.

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