Yes! to Lord British's idea of Dante's Inferno Death Penalty

A thought occurred to me was that you might get some cooldown on logging back into your main character after death, but could occupy an NPC. The obvious choice would be someone already traveling with you, if that were the case. So you could play a slightly underpowered alt NPC for a while or you could do whatever quest to get your real self back faster. This puts the punishment in place but doesn't destroy your gameplay if your with your companions. It could be cranked up for an almost premadeath feel - can't play for the rest of the day. Which is an eternity if you're really trying to do something with a bunch of people.

 

@PrimeRib, I think that idea takes the sting out of death. I don't think that's what the dev's are looking for. Dieing should be damned inconvenient, and something to be avoided. Why should it not destroy your gameplay, at least temporarily? After all, you died!

 

I play a game - that's in Aplha - it's called Kenshi; it has a unique take on defeat (mind you that it's unique to me - for all I know this has been tried or a lot of you already know this)

What happens in Kenshi - is that you collapse from your wounds - a healer has to heal - and cure you or you bleed out and die

If you don't get healed - you die - and do the Dante thing; if you get healed your incapacitated for 2-3 minutes, then you can rejoin the fight but your stats take a serious hit (until the instance is over)

I can see this working in 1v1, group PvP and PvE - but that's just me.

just my two cents - (not sure how you could implement this/but it sounds reasonable to me)

 

@Margard, Guild Wars 2 has a similar system. You are incapacitated, but any player can revive you before you bleed out. You come back at low health, but with a self heal, or a potion, you can recover pretty quickly. Once you die, however, you res with all your gear at a spawn point, and you just take some gear damage that costs gold to repair. Nothing too expensive.

The incapacitation part is OK, but I like the UO ghost process better than spawn points. Your group mates can guard your body, and maybe gather your gear for you and meet you when you res, however SotA will handle that.

 

The only problem with the Dante's inferno type dungeon is if you're in a party. You have to wait for that person to come back from his journey. This would suck when you're in a dungeon. Otherwise, I love the idea.

 

@Owain - In Kenshi you have to sit for a while after you collapse - healing is only so you don't die; no instant rez - that's why I find it a little more compelling in this context especially in group PvP.

When you come back to battle - you are not the same - you either don't have your full assortment of skills - or you are not doing as much damage. ONLY for the duration of the instant (To me - rez cheapens the fight - but I get that folks are looking for a good balance between fun and challenging)

Once someone collapses - the healer(s) has to make a decision - heal to regain member at a later time in the battle (but a gimped version - after what amounts to a forced time out) or let them go see Dante World and wake up at the rez point

It adds an extra element to a battle - maybe members - start to play defensively - to buy time (because they realize that this person can swing the fight in their favor)

(There is also a carry function in Kenshi because you have to carry your companion to safety after they collapse - in an MMO this would amount to a kind of permadeath for the instant - he/she is not dead (if they received medical treatment) but can not rejoin the battle until another player carries the collapsed player to a "safe" area - but I think this is a fun killer)

 

I have fond memories of some game where players got trapped together at death... was fun, and also painful depending on the crowd I would like to see some death quests as well... this is a good idea.

@Isaiah O oOOooOo OOooO OooO ooO.

 

Ya, basically I was only thinking about your friends. Switching to a companion NPC would still allow you to group with them, but you'd sacrifice personal advancement for your own character. And again if you only really have an hour left to play with your friends, going through some big solo quest isn't something you want to deal with now.

I'd thought of this model before as a solution for a game where magic and esp priest magic was rare or non existent so the idea of someone getting a res and continuing would just be weird. So it was effectively a permadeath but only for the gaming session.

As to the mention of guildwars 2, it 's a very interesting system and not one I've seen elsewhere. It certainly frustrates people when the person dying first ends up winning the fight because they have a very effective downed state. It's very gratifying to spike someone in a downed state. Feels like a mortal combat finisher.

I dislike how cheap death is in WoW but death in lineage2 was just brutal. You could actually delevel and levels were just awful to get.

 

Fine by me as long as it does not interfere with online play.

 

I've never liked the idea of dying and being resurrected in an online game. I mean, if resurrection is so common, how do people actually die in the world? Is the world populated by cylons?

I would like to see something more "realistic," though I don't know how hard it would be to implement in game. Basically, this:

During a fight, if you "die," you are unconscious until your friends revive you. For those that played "Republic Commando," this would be similar to that. If the entire party is wiped(or you are playing single player), you would be "captured" by whatever creature you were fighting. You would then have to escape that creature's lair.

For example - if you are fighting giant spiders, you would wake up in their cave(perhaps in a coccoon of some sort - you would cut your way free), then have to fight or sneak your way out of the cave.

Thus, there is some sort of penalty for death, but it also becomes something of a game.
I'm not sure how this would work in pvp. Perhaps you are "left for dead," but gypsies find you and take you back to a city or their camp to heal?

Anyway, just a thought...

 

I love this idea.

 

@Isaiah: I like the Ghosts idea as well, but I'm hoping SotA offers something new, perhaps in addition. Simply falling back on old game mechanics from 15+ years ago isn't being innovative, unless they can put a new spin on Ghosts.

@Screwtape: You reap what you sow. Having said that, I don't think anyone is suggesting this be the only way and enforced for everyone in every situation in every game mode. We're all talking about one possible option for death, perhaps related to some story, or as some option to play death as a quest, rather than just get rezzed immediately with stat loss or whatever, or do a corpse run, or ... This is just one option to the death experience. And yes, if the lore is such that evil players with a high negative karma or whatever are treated positively upon death, I completely support it, as it would be Richard and Tracy's vision. Just as long as you agree that if their lore is the opposite, you would support that as well.

For all we know, because "darkness = evil", if you die at night and you are evil, you face no penalty. Die during the day, you face heavy penalty and can't get rez until nighttime. And vice versa for good karma. Or opposite in both cases. Really, everything is up for grabs. If it's story or lore based that is tied to the virtue system in the game, I will support whatever Richard and Tracy comes up with. What I won't support is to blindly nerf death simply because I can't deal with the consequences of my actions and the game punishes me for it. Note that I didn't say whether I was good or bad, it could be either situation. Again, reap what you sow, based on the game's system of virtues.

@DLMyth: Yeah, that can be an inconvenience, but without knowing what the "reward" is for the Dante's Inferno death mode / death quest / death whatever, it could outweigh the cost of whatever it is of rezzing, corpse run, etc.

 

Maybe there's a fast way to get resurrected by the living, but at an increased material cost (exp, lasting injury, lost skills) Or you can take the long way through the afterlife for a reduced material cost from the death.

I don't particularly like the idea of different times of day leading to varying death penalties. I prefer the idea that reduced death penalty in and of itself is one of the benefits of virtue as opposed to evil behaviour generally having immediate rewards (Theft gives you whatever you stole). That way the two are balanced, but fundamentally different. Good and evil being just two team affiliations with no real differences except for cosmetic ones just ruins the virtue aspect of the game and turns it into something like D&D alignment with 'evil for evil's sake'.

 

Also, I got a cool idea that I saw on an UO free shard.
You could only be resurrected with bandages if your ghost stays on top of your corpse. Heat, huh?

 

Since there will be Evil in this game as well as Virtue, each should have levels. A person who has taken the difficult path to exemplify all the virtues is complimented by someone who has taken the equally difficult path to exemplify the anti-virtues.

Imagine dying and appearing in a room with a door for each virtue, its color chosen from a spectrum from blue (max good) to red (max evil). Choosing a door leads to a short quest that gives you hints on how to increase/decrease the value of that virtue.

To allow for quick return to life, any door that has maxxed its value will take you directly back, the downside being that you must sacrifice something of value.

 

ooOooOOOoooOOooooooo

 

Hello

My two cents;

I am a firm believer in death within the game but also a believer that a good story can conquer all.

Resurrection: - Why not allow true resurrection, and have the player?s friends and companion go on a quest to resurrect their fallen comrade or comrades were its difficulty and nature would be reflective of the virtue system. It would be an interesting way to simulate a ?fantasy reality? and promote group roleplaying.

Heirs: - We can create characters, why not create a descendent, or heir that would inherent the ?property? or estate of the former character including titles and land so that all is not lost if resurrection is not practical or desired (Not necessarily the items lost in death).

Ancestor Quest: Finally, maybe at some point in the descendant?s life, they may earn a quest were they may learn some if not most of their ancestors lost wisdom; a nice way to introduce a kind of ?ancestor ethos? and also support those who like to play as a lone wolf.

Cheers

 

@Treborious - like your ideas

 

I like the Dante's inferno idea a lot. Especially since the reverse would be that if you live a virtuous life, death becomes less painful. I could see it as working along side an incapacitation system.


If you lose all your HP, your incapacitated. You can either rally, as in GW2, or a friend can help you back up.

If no one is there to help you, you "die." A friend could still help you here, either with just a slower "helping up" or the need for a spell or scroll. Whichever works best for the game.

If you're alone, and no one's around to help you, THEN you select the inferno, and fight your way back.


I think this would balance best between game and story, and give the player more options as to how they want to play, but death SHOULD hurt. Too many games take death too lightly and it can really kill the experience for a lot of players.

 

When I think of death and to the spirit world I think of a world that is not friendly in many cases as you try to navigate back to the real world. I feel that for both sides it can be particularly hazardous, but the virtues you most embody may be found as a spirit that may help you along the way.

This way each time you die can be quiet varied and not the same experience over and over