Player made vs Game made items idea? ? (Dev) Replied

oh dear me. While I assume every idea gets read at some point it's ALWAYS nice to see confirmation in the form of a post.. especially by LB himself. He must really like the whole salvage idea if it prompted him to reply.

However, since he brought up the idea of increasing repair costs over time I will have to protest. Though I make the same argument here.. https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=a-case-for-soft-item-breakage

The only way to ensure increased repair costs over time is to force the crafter to absorb the cost of repair out of their own pocket and then pass that cost on to the customer. The makes no realistic sense. It only works as a forced game mechanic to encourage an items retirement or salvage to remove it from the world economy. Haven't worked with a crafting system that does this I have to say I am NOT in the least bit fond of this idea.

In order to let crafters continue to produce without an increasing number of items flooding the economy there needs to be breakage.. rather than having all the older items lingering about.

 

If the point of an item breaking is to take it out of circulation than what is the difference between breaking and the cost/benefit of repair eventually favoring salvage? Salvage, I'm assuming, means melting down to make new goods. As long as the balance of raw materials is maintained I see only advantage to salvage since it puts the decision into the players' hands instead of a coded mechanic.

Having read your objections to the increased cost of repair I just don't get it. Whats wrong with ever increasing cost? I'd assume that whomever wants the weapon repaired is the one who ultimately pays. It is the responsibility of any vendor to have materials on hand and to spend money to make money. If repair is lucrative then a crafter will have whatever materials are need to accomplish it. Additionally, I see salvage well suited to a low or mid-level crafter.

 

Breakage is generally more effective. If a player is willing to lose an item, they can use it until it breaks and THEN salvage it.. Traditionally of course a broken item simply vanishes but there's no reason to assume this must be the case but breakage guarentees an item will be removed and need to be replaced. Where as repair (regardless of cost) keeps the item in circulation. The longer you can repair it the less demand for a replacement.

Now if there is NO breakage at all.. the number of items leaving the economy is less. Demand for new items will then be lower and people will choose to repair as long as possible in order to maintain the benefits with a specific weapon or armor. Artificially inflating the cost of repair could work in theory but is extremely unrealistic and could also backfire and so is not a reliable solution.

Though we're fairly off subject here. I've already linked my arguement for 'soft item' breakage in my other post above which includes why I don't like the idea of increasing repair costs with no breakage.

As for my more complete thoughts on salvage.. Here's a lovely wall of text all about salvage and item component degredation.
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=craft-component-degradation-material-salvage

I'll be more than happy to continue discussion on those topics in their respective threads.

 

@Lord British "I like the idea of salvage, as it likely has both good ?memories? as well as cool abilities you could get back!"

I love this idea even if I don't know what it means. I'm going to speculate and guess it leads back to the recipes that have been mentioned already as well as the "bag of tricks".

If a player kills a large number of Trolls with an axe then the axe holds "memories" of troll slaying or troll vanquishing. It makes sense that the only way to make this axe is by salvaging a recipe from the memories.

As far as the "bag of tricks" goes, players set up before entering an area with trolls with a troll slaying axe, that's easy enough to understand.

If this is the case then players would want to have a wide variety of weapons and crafters would certainly prosper selling an array of gear for different situations.

This would also help entice crafters to at least know someone who is an active PvPer if the recipes for GM weapons come from "memories" gained ONLY in PvP battles.

I love this idea!

 

AN CORP

No one has an opinion on this New info RG has left behind.

How would it effect the game if we could loot each other and salvage abilities?

 

Two points I think need to be addressed.

1. PvP and player looting. If there is player looting (full or otherwise) than there needs to be more 'throw away' armor and weapons in the game as many players are not going to want to lose their quality gear.

2. The single player game. For those only interested in playing single player offline will they have to become a blacksmith/enchanter, etc or consign themselves to grinding for rare drops? Though I know a lot of people demanded the ability to play offline I hope most find enough value in the online game that they ultimately decide to play that way.

 

@ND3G:

1) PvP and player looting, nothing has been released or official, I highly doubt though from hearing the chats it will be full loot if at all.

2) It is highly advisable to play solo online rather than offline to still have a persistent world and be able to see everyone's vendors. You can play with everyone, just see your friends, or be online by yourself. So that would still allow you to use other player services.

 

I dont know how multiple characters per player will be handled, but I would like to see "Crafter" be a class/profession in and of itself, rather than "I am a Warrior, but I am also an Armorsmith". In many fantasy novels, not every warrior is also a crafter, but instead get their gear from crafters. True, they may have some base skills for dealing with damaged equipment, but if they want the best gear they go to a Smith who specializes in crafting and can get you the best gear.


Crafters, however, need materials. Going back to the "not all warriors are armorsmiths" idea, "not all armorsmiths are miners/gatherers". Crafters could then barter with Warriors: "Ill make this sword for you, but you have two options: a) gather me X amount of these materials or b) pay me X amount of gold so I can get the materials off the market, or use what materials I currently have".

This has the benefit of a cyclical in-game market. Player gathers material he cant make use of, sells it to a Crafter for profit or trade, Crafter makes gear and sells it to players for profit or trade.

Two side notes:

1) The possibility of a player operated "Crafters Guild" would be amazing. Selling their services to the highest bidder, or assisting those whom the guild believes would be beneficial to them.

2) crafted items should always carry the name of the person who crafted it (and possibly the date it was made), that way it acts as almost an advertisement for that crafter in the future. "man, i really like this shield Smith Bob made, I should contact him and see what else he has been working on"

 

I always like being able to inspect someone's gear ad see that my toon made it. Crafting in game is loads of fun to me but when people don't need/want the gear or whatever you are crafting it kind of takes the fun out of it.

 

I still would like the option of removing a makers mark from any item I own. Only the crafter should be able to put one on (at the time of creation), and even this should be optional.

I wouldn't choose to put such a mark on an item I create unless it was of exceptional quality.

 

So basically, what you're suggesting is that crafters should be able to make component parts that can be used by other crafters with different skills. Crafter A makes one component, Crafter B makes another component. Either should then be able to take both components to make the finished product. This is perfectly doable in a recipe based system such as what has been discussed so far.

 

I'm glad that you mentioned this thread OP. I agree with with most of this thread on how loot and crafted items should be handled.

 

Hm, not sure if this has been mentioned already, but.

I wouldn't be adverse to seeing damaged magic items drop that require a crafter to restore, or imbue a new item with the powers of the old one.

 

An idea might be to have the big bosses drop the recipes or materials to make a fantastic weapon that has to be made by a crafter instead of a weapon drop Example:killing the Ogre Lord of Rivendale gives you either recipe or materials to add a weapon or armor stat!

 

@Jothyn
I like that. I think I would like it better though If the ogre lord drop was a junk weapon.

Only by salvaging the junk weapon do you realize it holds a valuable recipe or ability.

It would make shopping at vendors more fun. One mans junk...

 

What about having drops that are 'crafted' by an NPC? If players are learning their crafting skills from NPC teachers, higher quality items would be examples of their workmanship. Rather than being 'A Blade of Destruction' that sounds unique but drops all over, maybe it's a Hatori Hanzo sword, and players would learn over time that different craftsmen or schools produce blades that offer certain bonuses.

Also, while you might be learning your crafting skills from a teacher, perhaps some improvements could be learned from examining/using specific items. So, using the same blade for some time confers a bonus based on familiarity, but after an undisclosed period of familiarity it also confers an innovation bonus to a crafter who is familiar with it.

 

Guilds would be amazing, and by the same token, there should be multiple guilds for each profession, that way you'd have competition between the various guilds, as well as independents who try to seek their own fortunes. Belonging to a guild could cost the player a certain percentage of gold from their profession, but in exchange, they get all the materials they need in proportion to how much they earn.

 

I agree with the theme of this thread.

And in my humble opinion changing the focus for encounters away from loot is a fantastic idea, and there are many ways to do that. As a few examples: earning titles, or entreance into NPC guilds (which could be required to learn certain skills/spells etc), aquiring rare and special crafting reagents.

I'd like to add one thing no one has addressed yet: what do you do if you need something, but there are no crafters with that skill online?
To solve this, I'd like to propose a player created quest or job request system- we can request services and offer rewards/offer trade. Or something there abouts- the basic idea being to not limit the availability of crafting services.
How cool would it be to check your log book and see requests for services made while you were away?
Maybe an NPC clerk in the front of your store can take requests? I don't know, you get where I"m going with it.

 

Hi Folks,

I too support the fact that crafted items be of more worth than looted. After watching a few videos and getting to know the team and the history of UO as never played it and am relatively new/limited experience MMO player I feel I perhaps may be a bit out of place with putting forward this proposal but anyways here goes.

Touching on the above quote and what I had been thinking of what Iolo had said in a chat with LB about the danish crossbow being something of value to that of a small car and in England if you didn't have a certain income or property could not own such directly got me to thinking and tying some ideas which the team have floated also the community from various posts.

So we have highly skilled crafters who want that "prestige" but on the flipside we also have the dungeoneering / exploring type that would of course like the same from gear looted. So to further what I assume is the "affinty" of a particular item (if that is the "Skeleton Slaying Greatsword (X amount of skeltons)") then why not have very rare drops (and I do not agree with from dungeons alone). It could perhaps be a world drop so that “Joe Bloggs” who may be out mining and happens to kill a bear to get to his ore finds the drop instead of the "Elite Hardcore" dungeoneer (and I do mean rare). This could be a weapon mold or a tailoring blueprint which has limited use whereby only one or 2 successes of an existing weapon or the like can be replicated, this would allow for trade of the mold or blueprint or an agreement to be made upon the crafting between the crafter, rare item (mold) looter and the person wielding such weapon or armor. In this there is some form of prestige and/or profit for all involved where the Item would have to have permission from some official means to be made. For example, " Skeleton Slaying Greatsword" could become "Skelton Slaying Greatsword of <Player Name>", and for the crafter "Forged by the masterful hands of <Player Name>", and to monitor what is written into the item to avoid profanity in the crafting of such piece could only be done by way of approval of a town official NPC or otherwise which in a roundabout way goes back to Iolo's chat with LB!

 

So, your solution for the offline players is for them to play online? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of offline?

The idea is nice if the game was only to be played as a MMO, however it has problems as seen above when you look at the game as supposed to be a single player game as well. It's all good to say that you can buy off of other players in SPO...but I don't want to see this take away from the adventuring and finding items. This idea essentially makes Offline play unplayable unless you spend time leveling your character as a crafter.

I can see the benefit of having crafted items be worthwhile of course. I just want to make sure the game is still playable if you do not use crafting or crafters.