The PvP Thread

What I see is the opportunity that all of our needs can be met. Since it isn't a true MMORPG the game can be made relevant to you.

If you enjoy the ability to PvP at random then why not have the possibility to find some of the other people like you who want that stuff.

If you like more than the average random PvP then maybe an Order vs Chaos thing would be cool to have. then you can go out and look for people.

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Sometimes I might want to do a dungeon crawl with some friends and not want it to be ruined because there is always a bunch of jerks that hang out in a particular dungeon that will kill you in 2 seconds, take your stuff, and leave. However I love to PvP on my own and with others who are PvPers like me.

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I really dislike the WoW version of PvP in those "special zones" and here's why: You wait 10 minutes for it to start and then bang 25 people seem to focus only on you and you die in 2 seconds. lol THen you run around get respawned and do it to somebody else. Just creates more anxiety for me and I'm already anxiety prone. I enjoyed UO because you could actually escape if you had a horse for instance. the mobility of your character was much better than WoW and you can try to run if you see the stupid mob in time.

 

I want to reiterate the importance of mobility. If there isn't a possibility of escape or evasion in a PvP setting then an upsetting death is all you can expect.

I believe making a character have the potential to evade or at least prolong a death is better than just dying in 2 seconds.

 

Hello everyone,

I read through this entire thread and realized that two major camps exist: those who want open pvp and those who do not. Personally, I am a backer of open world pvp.

However, we have one major problem here: we don't know if the game will be open world multi player, like in UO, or if the multi player will be restricted to several friends.

If the latter, then why do you care if it's open PvP? You will only have your friends there, so you might as well allow everyone the freedom to act however they want.

If the game is indeed open world, with thousands of players per shard, like in UO, then I can understand some people's concerns. However, the game is made to be "interactive" if something looks like you should be able to do it, then you 'can' do it. Putting a restriction on attacking other people will completely detract from that statement.


Until we know how the world of SotA will be presented in multi-player, this discussion is really quite difficult.

 

Given that RG has said that this won't have true MM interaction, that it will pair you with your friends, and one assumes your friends are based on some kind of approval process, do you really think that outside of arena style or boundary based PVP areas, that you will be given the opportunity to find targets?

Just wondering, because while PVP was a valid part of UO, I am not certain that I am hearing its going to see the same kind of acceptance in SOTA.

 

I am for Open World PVP, but as said before this is not a MMO per say. I would imagine it easy to have a flag for PVP and if on other PVP enabled people will stumble across you.

PVP is a hard discussion to have without understanding exactly how they will incorporate multiplayer.

 

Roarke, yes that's me.

Unfortunately this game is not going to be anything UO was.

What you playing these days?

We all grown up and have different life styles but even now i cant seem to forget the great times we had in UO.

 

@Rostic83

Agreed. Thinking about UO still brings back fond memories. I dabbled in wow,warhammer online, gw2 ... but

UO will always be number 1 in my books. The open nature of UO is a key gameplay enabler.

Players could do whatever they want, but have to face the consequences. Just like reallife. UO encouraged different playstyles which i enjoyed. While on occasion i was on the receiving end, killing players with deadly posion trapped chests, gating ppl to the slayer/dragon spawn, Wall of stone at chokepoints ... always brings a smile when i think about UO.

The current state of MMOs are restrictive and players are limited to archetypes and playstyles which eventually leads to gear escalation and farming to get the best equipment.

Until the dev team shares more implementation details/concepts the discussion will just be based on our assumptions.

 

There is definetly a lot to be answered.

I cant really see how ad hoc online style will work as it seems kinda random, i mean what if i dont like who i see on instance of the map or the other way around.
Do i just click a button and that person vanishes and a new one appears?

They said pvp will be a focus but if all your mates are going to be in your instance, who da hell are we going to hunt?

It has to be full mmo or no online unless its simply intened to compare your achivements against others in the world.

Why would i want to get artificates if a can simply use my brain and kill monsters.

All good items have no mean against monsters its all for pvp.

 

First some background, so people will know where I am coming from.

I was in the UO beta, started on Pacific, and as soon as Siege Perilous opened, I started a new character there.

From the start of UO, even in the beta, I was an Anti-PK. On Siege Perilous, I was (and still am) a member of the KGB (Knights of Glory and Beer), a dedicated Anti-PK guild. I played UO for about 5 years, but there were many places I never went because ALL my time was devoted to hunting and slaying PKs. THAT was our quest. THAT was our game content.

There were many problems with the PvP system in UO, and one of the biggest was Recall. Recall and Gate made it very difficult, if not impossible for players to effectively police the game, and that is what I think is required to control wanton player killing in PvP. When the game prohibits a thing, it lessens the game. Permit everything, BUT permit the players to police themselves.

Without Recall, it becomes easier to track down murderers and bring them to justice. We can use the terrain to box them in, cut off their escape routes, funnel them into kill zones. With full looting capability, we can make their operations more expensive, and render them combat ineffective until they can resupply. An effective tracking system, perhaps requiring a specific skill set could be used to aid in detecting, following, and destroying them.

PvP and player killing adds a great deal to the game, but the necessary tools need to be given to players to ensure murderers do not have an easy task. On the contrary, that play style should be fraught with risk and danger, so that wanton player killing, although possible, is rare, and subject to the harshest of penalties, just as in real life.

Owain ab Arawn
The Knights of Glory and Beer
Formerly of UO: Siege Perilous

 

As a post script to my previous post, for players who are apprehensive about full PvP/full looting, and wonder what protection is there for those who merely wish to explore, or mine, or go about their way in peace.

If full contact PvP is a feature of SOTA, to include full looting as well, the Knights of Glory and Beer (KGB) will deploy en masse to New Britannia, and begin immediate combat operations. The KGB has been in existence for 15 years, and we have conducted many campaigns in multiple games, but the destruction of the PK was our founding motivation. If that environment will exist in Shroud of the Avatar, and if we are granted the tools we need, the citizens of New Britannia can always look to the KGB for justice, or for vengeance, as the case may be.

I invite all, PARTICULARLY the dev team to visit our web site, and become reacquainted with the power that is the KGB.

(Now there's some role playing for you, right there!)

http://oracle.the-kgb.com/

Owain ab Arawn
The Knights of Glory and Beer
Formerly of UO: Siege Perilous

 

Didn't KGB have an alliance with KoB before moving to SP? I know some of my guys probably joined you on a few anti-PK hunts on Pac.

Anyhow, it sounds to me so far is that PvP will be controlled in part with 'flags' set by the player. Now please note I say "in part" and there's been mention that they want to make PvP "story driven" which in theory I'm all for.

I think it's been settled though that pure unrestricted PvP isn't happening. I expect it will be the subject of a developer blog very soon.

 

I joined the KGB after I went to Siege Perilous, but we have member still from the guilds days on Pacific who would know better than I.

It is still early days yet in the development of the game. It is my hope that an open PvP system will yet be provided, but if not, I hope that the PvP system will support a robust and active PK/Anti-PK environment. If one is present, then the rest of the game will be an afterthought for us, for we will spend our days and our nights in the relentless pursuit of the PK.

 

If that situation comes about I think I know where you'll be able to buy some decent equipment.

 

Thanks. we'll need it.

 

Right now, there is internal debate on the KGB forums over support for Shroud of the Avatar. I have directed members to these forums, and to the demos. Here is one of the responses I have gotten .
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Morlander - the demos don't appear very impressive.

Owain. Right now, there is nothing over which to be impressed. They have a few demo tapes that show pretty simple activities, but these aren't beta level, or even alpha level demos. This is prototype stuff.

They are looking for input, still deciding on what kind of game they are going to make, and that will depend on what kind of input and support they get NOW, while they are laying the ground work.

There is a push on the part of many on their forums for open PvP/full loot, but I detect some reservation on the part of the devs,particularly Garriott who remembers, no doubt, the controversy from UO. Input from a group like the KGB might allay those doubts, and convince them that open PvP is indeed possible IF the devs give the Anti-PKs the tools necessary to prevent PvP from descending into utter chaos.

Player Justice is the best way to control rampant PKing, and the KGB is just the organization with the will to render that justice. If they remove things like Recall that allow PKs to flee the scene of their crimes, and give us the tools to run them down, like an effective tracking skill, we can find them, contain them, and destroy them.

Putting limitations to PvP in games to control griefing only weakens and dilutes the game. Giving the players the authority, the power, and the skills to protect ourselves is by far the best solution, but we need to convince the devs of that, and we do that on THEIR forums, during THEIR podcasts, and on THEIR FACEBOOK page.

This is an opportunity for the KGB to establish itself as a force for Justice in this game before it even starts. I've already had someone from the old days ask me, "Didn?t KGB have an alliance with KoB before moving to SP? I know some of my guys probably joined you on a few anti-PK hunts on Pac."

The KGB is known to this community already, and we are remembered with honor. We need to let that community know, and most importantly let THE DEVELOPERS know, that the KGB will give its strong support to enforcing Player Justice in this game, if only the developers will give their strong support to us.

 

I think you need to keep recall, it was a blessing of the game for everyone to be able to recall.

However if good doers could track evil doers much like a demon hunter gains skills in tracking demons... Then you have a formidable story.

 

Recall may be a blessing, but it was a mixed blessing when it came to PKs, because it made them damn hard to catch. Perhaps if murder was a such a stain upon the soul that murderers were thereby inhibited from using anything like recall, that would serve to allow players to still murder, but now with greater difficulty, and with a smaller chance of getting away with it.

There is a balance that needs to be struck between the ease of committing and act, and the willingness to accept the consequences of committing that act. Risk is part of the consequences, and if there is little risk there is no balance, no consequences.

 

As there are lots of people urging full PvP, open PvP, or PvP however you like, I'm just offering an alternate voice (to match the "demand or you will fail" style of the PvP advocates). Just so that there isn't any mistake that the game's backers are solely PvPers.

There are an equal number of players out here that *DO NOT WANT* PvP, but still want to support a multiplayer story-based game. Please make our view possible, without having to worry about being murdered by other players whose only joy is ruining other people's fun. Thanks!

 

I don't see the harm in open PvP. Being that players will be matched with friends and friends of friends over strangers. The chances of newbies being slaughtered by the hundeds on a repetitive basis does not seem very likely.

I think the risk involved in UO was what made it worth while. I've tried many games that take the "viable business model" approach. They may sell a decent number of games but in the end they wither and die. How much room is there at the top for the same game that holds your hand?

"There are an equal number of players out here that *DO NOT WANT* PvP..."

If they exist, they should probably come and voice their concerns themselves.

 

"If they exist, they should probably come and voice their concerns themselves."

To suggest that there isn't at least an equal number of people who don't want PvP is to ignore the vast body of evidence from every MMO that has ever been released. It's no random chance that the PvP-centric games were not the huge successes that the limited-PvP titles were.

Besides, when non-PvPers do raise their voices and their concerns, it's usual for them to come under attack and be insulted, called names, mocked and told to "learn to play" or "find another game". Look up many of the posts in this very forum for examples of such behavior! Why would they want to speak to people that do that to them?