The PvP Thread

Full loot has been said no, now this may change but that is what has been stated so far

B ?We definitely plan on durability/wear and tear being a big part of the crafting game. We have not yet resolved specifics of repairing but the goals is to make items eventually become unusable after enough wear and tear even with repair. We recognized the implications the design of the durability and repair mechanic will have on the life of a crafter.

As far as death, you will not lose your items. We have not finalized specifics of what happens when you die but I can assure you it will not be a situation where others can loot or steal gear. A durability penalty is highly probable however.?
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=item-loss-decay

Full open NON CONSENSUAL PVP is banned. Consensual PVP will be in the game

Chris "We have just been answering questions that have been asked in chat or through Google. We have been talking more about multiplayer elements because they have been asking more questions!

I think we?ve been pretty open that on the quest and story side of things, we?re really just focusing on the single player experience and making it a single player experience that can be played with other people around! We?ve also been clear that there will even be parts of the single player quest line that will force you into a single player mode.

If we were just remaking Ultima Online, we would not have brought in a story telling talent like Tracy Hickman. We feel we know what is important to each side of our divided audience and if anything, the single player game people will be getting more dev time total than the online guys in the long run.

The open world is NOT PVP. That rumor is being spread by some trolls in the forums. We?ve been VERY clear that PVP will be consensual and not required. The rewards of PVP will primarily be things that are only valuable to PVP?ers. You will be safe from PK?ers and so will the goods of your house unless you choose to join in.

Join in with questions for the next dev chat and I?ll answer them!

Thanks!
Chris Spears"
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=growing-concerns-about-single-player&paged=3

Guild wars are in if you chose to participate as shown in the 2mill stretch goal which said that guilds can declare full time PVP

 

"As far as death, you will not lose your items. We have not finalized specifics of what happens when you die but I can assure you it will not be a situation where others can loot or steal gear. A durability penalty is highly probable however."

"If we were just remaking Ultima Online, we would not have brought in a story telling talent like Tracy Hickman. We feel we know what is important to each side of our divided audience and if anything, the single player game people will be getting more dev time total than the online guys in the long run."

"The open world is NOT PVP. That rumor is being spread by some trolls in the forums. We?ve been VERY clear that PVP will be consensual and not required. The rewards of PVP will primarily be things that are only valuable to PVP?ers. You will be safe from PK?ers and so will the goods of your house unless you choose to join in."

@SirAsguard - Thanks for this clarification. SotA "PvP" will without full loot not include a risk vs reward gameplay and will not have any PvP consequences worth the name.

Only consensual PvP is a safe version of PvP that in no way attract the felucca UO PvP players. But i guess felucca PvP players isnt the community SotA seeks with this game.

 

@Ara

<blockquote>So it?s decided there will be no open PvP and no full loot even for the ones that prefer such a playstyle?</blockquote>

What has been decided is that no one will be able to force those things on unwilling players.

On the other hand, open PvP for players that opt into it is very likely, together with the matchmaking system making sure that you only see other players you can attack, if that is what you want. And player looting is apparently being looked at as an option.

 

I think using terms like Open PVP and Full Loot apply traditional MMO and UO style MMO on this game where SOTA is trying something new. I think some Felucca purists may be disappointed, but only because this is not a UO sequel and will have a different takes on PVP and PC loot drops.

I still think in the end this game will have meaningful PVP and will make many people happy, but it will be hard to convince anyone of this until we actually get the opportunity to play with the mechanics.

 

@Alex_WildEagle, "huh? We certainly have official remarks. There is no open world PVP."

If you mean no open PvP as in UO, where everyone in the game out of towns was thrown into the PvP meat grinder, then no, there is no open world PvP in that sense, but SotA has a different architecture than UO. Instead of individual shards, like Napa Valley, Pacific, Siege Perilous, and so forth, there is a different kind of sharding. In this, it has been stated that you can flag yourself for various degrees of PvP. Categories that have been suggested include duels, arena team matches, guild wars, and open PvP.

If you flag yourself for open PvP, I'm assuming that the only players I will see outside of safe areas will be other open PvP players, so in that sense, yes, there will be open world PvP, but instead of a separate shard like UO:Siege Perilous, the SotA server will match me in a virtual open world PvP shard with other PvP players, all of whom are there by consent.

With respect to full loot, I've asked this question several times in chat, and the answer I've consistently gotten is that it has not yet been decided. If you think you can get a different answer than that, check with FireLotus to see if anything has changed, but I'm betting she will tell you the exact same thing.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the private Developer Level Chats/Forums where hopefully I can buttonhole one of the devs and get some of the ambiguity resolved. Alas, I suspect the non disclosure agreements we will probably have to sign will preclude my passing any of that on here, so keep pinging the devs until they make an official announcement.

 

They just said on the Dev chat (http://youtu.be/uUbZkDEW_Wg?t=32m31s) that they are still deciding and need to see how mechanics work before deciding on loot drops. They also said that during the alpha/beta we will get some full pvp, full loot tests to see how it works and get feedback.

 

@FireLotus must like you more than she likes me.

 

open world PVP is when EVERYONE is a target. No choice.

And yes. That is how I understand it as well. You will only see other PVP flagged individuals.

As to full loot they had said before that there wouldn't be full loot. But now it sounds like they are waffling. Really doesn't matter to me though. People don't like to lose stuff so more people will think twice before PVPing with full loot. And the only way to counter that is to make stuff so worthless people don't mind losing it. But I'm not buying the same gear over and over and as a dedicated crafter I don't enjoy grinding out large amounts of the same thing. So, crafters get their goods cheapened and they have to keep grinding out the same stuff.
And sounds like crafters are getting screwed in that if the stuff I'm making is so cheap that's not why I craft. I craft to make unique cool stuff that's useful and sought after. As they were speaking of it sounds like they're going the wrong way on crafting.

 

Oh heavens ppl against PvP...Stay in Trammel if you're scared to PvP!!

PvP in Felluca is what made Ultima Online so enjoyable. I still talk with friends to this day about how no other game compares in that aspect. The joy of competition at this level where you cannot enter the ring unless your skill set is Grand Mastered or Legendary. Hoooo-Rahhhh! There will always be a place for individuals who just enjoy PvM...just don't do it where PK'rs roam

I like the aspect of parallel worlds where they are identical, but one is good the other can be evil. It's very close to how real life is. If you're walking somewhere my Legendary Fencer with Grand Master Poisoning thought you shouldn't then guess what OooOOoOoOOoOOO your a ghost, go get Resurrected. You have infinite lives.

Don't knock the non-consenual pvp aspect, embrace it!
I hope we all don't have 10,000 hit points, I don't think I should get hit from a spell or sword 500 times before I die..lol

-Monkey
*Invite me to your guild, otherwise don't complain when we meet on the battlefield*

 

@TheLoveMonkey69

Part of the people interested in SotA were UO players that disliked it's open PvP system, sometimes to the point of stopping playing due to it. Others, like myself, never even started due to what we heard about PKs. SotA, after all, was described from the start as a game that is a spiritual successor to not only Ultima Online, but also Ultima 4 and Ultima 7, where players can play solo or just with their handpicked friends; and also as a game where all PvP is supposed to be consensual.

Not everyone enjoy non-consensual PvP. You will never see myself taking part in non-consensual PvP, for example, both because I would rather suicide my character than fight a PvP battle when not in the mood for it, and because I never attack another player unless I'm quite certain he wants to fight (and just being in an area where PvP is enabled isn't enough to assure me if there's any PvE reason, such as PvE contents or rewards, for the player to be there). I even refuse to help friends with PvP if they started the fight

BTW, SotA is not supposed to have parallel worlds. Rather, it will use instancing and group players according to their preferences, including PvP preference. If you sign up to fight other players you should only see other players also itching for a fight, while players that want to avoid PvP are bound to only see other players that don't want to PvP. If this works, everyone will have the illusion of playing in a game tailored to his interests.

 

@Silent Strider

PvP I agree is not for everyone, however not everyone quit due to non-consenual pvp. Everyone that says that is still here looking forward to this game. If what you say about SotA is true where they will use instancing and Players who like to PK will only see those players and players who do not like to PvP will only see those players, that would be great.

There are two concerns to me then:
1) Will you be missing out of interactions when you are not PvPing and want to obtain items to build up your other characters from NPC's or Shops that have the best armor. I can see a rift or halt in game play because of this. Both sides need each other to function. I myself am not going to or want to spend hours farming items to craft armor pieces, or weapons. I need that Trammy or Non-PVPer to help me enjoy my aspects of the game.

2) If I have a PK player and a Player vs Monster character, how will I transfer items to each of them, because stats and skills are completely different for each character played. I need a PvM character to obtain scrolls for my other character. If you set yourself in a world of all PVP will all of your characters be in this world?? Or will your PVP character be in a PVP world and your PVM character be in a PVM World?? This is the rift that should not occur.

-Monkey
*Invite me to your guild, otherwise don't complain when we meet on the battlefield*

 

Actually the person playing PVE doesn't need the PKer to function at all. Your #1 point there requires you to have a "victim". What does the PVE player require from you to make that relationship work?

 

You don't know how suits of armor I went through in UO.
I would mine my ore and then have a GM smith make my full exceptional platemail suites sometime two - three times in one day.

 

@TheLoveMonkey69

The game will just filter the characters each player can see according to preference; it's not going to completely segregate those characters in the way games like WoW and Rift do. If you want to meet with a PvE player, you can, though it's possible that either you will need to temporarily drop out of PvP, or the PvE player will need to temporarily be subject to PvP, in order for that to happen.

The PvP and PvE selection will be dynamic anyway. A character isn't permanently stuck one way or another, though there will obviously be some restrictions on dropping PvP in order to avoid exploits.

For selling and purchasing items, everyone will be playing in the same game world. Part of the game world is the housing, with player-controlled vendors in the houses, and the city/town/village bazaars, where players without houses can sell things. It doesn't matter if the player is playing PvP or PvE, if you choose to play single player online or to meet with everyone possible, he will see all the houses and vendors, so he will be able to purchase, and likely sell, to any other player.

As for having multiple characters, this is still to be defined. Richard Garriott was inclined to allow just one character per account, so as to make the character be the actual in-game representation of the player, but he seems to understand that there are quite valid reasons for a player to have multiple characters; it's thus still very much in the air. If we do have multiple characters, it's quite likely we will be able to send things back and forth between them, at the very least by granting all our characters full privileges to use each other's houses and in-house storage.

 

I remember working my ass off killing skeletons in a little grave yard. I met some other players in that grave yard and eventually we all became close enough friends to pool out money together and buy a little tower deed. We decided to go to Felluca and find a place to place it. We all pooled our resources and put together the best gear, weapons, armor, &amp; magic we could afford for our trip. We were in Felluca only a few hours before we noticed a warrior on a horse following us... testing us. Eventually he attacked. We nearly killed him but he overcame all six of us, flying in on his steed stabbing and darting out. It was not a short battle. Eventually he killed all of us and took everything including our tower deed (it was stored in its own bag).

We all died and lost our stuff and it was the most exciting day I have ever had gaming online. I wouldn't take that back for anything.

Please do not turn SotA into Disneyland.

 

This is perhaps redundant, but I'm not about to check 580 posts.. Just some thoughts

I think a possible solution to disparate opinions about non-consensual PVP and full loot is to create zones in which these flags are toggled. Not just a battlefield or a wilderness, but why not have a thieves' city (pirate's isle?), where different rules are enforced, and where it's "every man for himself". People can choose to base their play there and run the rat race if they like. I'd love to see what happens to that city under siege! SotA could develop a real black market (have we considered 'banned' substances, guard searches in town, stolen item flags?).

Also, what about areas of certain towns that would have relaxed rules. Everyone knows the guards don't go there, and you go there at your own risk. Are there slums in New Britannia, or is every city a utopia? I imagine different towns will have and develop different characteristics and personalities. Going to a 'shady dealer' is of zero risk in WoW, having to protect yourself in professional capacity as an assassin or thief or criminal wizard can add some real depth of play to those that are interested. Perhaps these areas could have low-rent housing that provides an alternative for the struggling player while presenting a challenge.

We talk a lot about sharding players away from each other so our different views don't conflict, but perhaps we could use simple geography to do the same thing. This would also allow for Pkillers, PVPers, PVEers and those Unnameable Ursines to not only coexist but to adventure together and still enjoy their variously depraved lifestyles in the privacy of their own locales.

 

@rild

Take a look at the selective multiplayer modes and how they are supposed to work:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=3955

Then tell us how your idea can be made to work with the single player online and friends play online modes, something we have been promised from the start of the KS campaign.

BTW, not every challenge or risk need to be PvP in nature. And not everyone that shuns non-consensual PvP is adverse to challenge. My own position is that, while I don't want to ever be subjected to non-consensual PvP, I still want the most challenging PvE content the game can throw at me, and if an incentive to engage in PvP is deemed as necessary, I would rather have that incentive be making all PvE content done while flagged for PvP easier than for pure PvE players, but without reducing it's rewards.

To tie that with your idea of risky areas, going somewhere risky while not available for PvP would open the player to the risk of being attacked by potentially nasty NPCs, while doing so while flagged for PvP would have a reduced risk from NPCs but open the player for PvP attacks. This would give players an incentive to go there flagged for PvP, as going there in PvE mode would have a consistent, but higher on average, risk, while going there in PvP mode could be easier or harder depending on who the player meets.

 

@SilentStrider Have read, thank you, and I don't think there is a conflict with the friends play mode, but I wasn't considering single player online mode. A good question and I'm not sure I have an answer. Best I can say is that the open pvp areas would likely have mobs that operate similarly to pkillers.

This suggestion was offered not as an alternative to selective multiplayer modes, but instead a possible addition to that system. I'm not really arguing for or against, I was really just thinking of how to provide for the players that want full loot and open pkilling without making it all seem "too consensual". I understand that I don't really see this as a PVP -vs- PVE issue, just one that is about providing for several styles of play.

As far as PVE content, I think that RG's ideas for the combat system and this new discussion on no health bars and minimizing UI clutter will help to provide satisfying and challenging PVE content.