Combat and PVP team update!

Hey Chris, thanks for the reply! I think allow moving while shooting but perhaps reduce accuracy (chance of hitting) and also movement would be slowed... (but of course allow skills that increase speed so that could counter balance.

Cost of arrows will be one balance to archery, but also, slight damage to bow on use since in real life you would need to repair your bow from time to time... perhaps a bit less than contact weapons.

Quality of bow should have a measurable effect on damage/chance of hitting (is possible).

Can't wait to hear about 'special arrows' -> Poison arrows, fire arrows, electric? arrows, 'slowing' arrows that reduce targets speed, smoke screen arrow (creates a cloud of smoke), . These would need to be 'expensive' to make to keep it balanced but would be pretty cool to use. (Check out Divinity Original Sin, they have some great arrows there).

Regarding targeting, you mention fireballs going to the spot targeted... which is cool, but with arrows latency might be too much of an issue for that? I'm guessing you have that covered, but remember to add in some latency to your in-house testing somehow. (350ms to Texas, for me here in Cape Town)

 

Great to see and read.
Try not to have to many stuns in game please, i hate multi stun builds its just not fun and is no skill to do. Also countering spells/moves, with either a nullifier or something that takes away the damage potential i think is skillful and would help to make combat a little more chess like. They could even be blessings that you could keep up on yourself, something proactive in relation to the damage type you are expecting.

 

p.s. I've always liked the idea of the skill of combat coming from intelligently reacting to the situation on the field, e.g. seeing the Fireball spell being cast and proactively doing something to counter it (take cover! jump in the river!)

@Chris -> what is the current thinking on 'cover' in regards to arrows (and other ranged)... e.g. if target is partially obscurred will that reduce chances to hit?

 

Great posts, thanks.

I agreed with the limited-stuns notion expressed above. Mez-stun-root all has its place in the art of combat, and should be present. But too much of it also is exceedingly frustrating to melee players with no range. Skils that purge such things or enable a melee to leap free of them provide a counter. Skills should have things that counter them, if used appropriately.

 

@Chris...I'll add, what about friendly fire to this list too?

I think in D&D the great equalizer between risk vs. reward is the fact that fireballs don't mind who they kill! Just ask, FireLotus.

So I know there are exploits to friendly fire, but it's really an important part of combat and pvp balance so I hope we find a good solution that is inclusive of friendly fire.

 

I think casting time is the greatest equalizer (I just used that word above, I need a better vocabulary) for magic vs. melee. The pure melee fighter should be thinking "if only I can get close this jerk is dead!" While the caster should be thinking "if only I can get this spell off before that big ox reaches me!"

 

If there were going to be any award for negative votes, this post is going to be the one that'll get it.

*cracks fingers*

A few questions in regards to how the UI will work in PvP. You mentioned that player names and their healthbars will be shown once they are targeted, is this a tentative plan or something that will stick in the final build? I know for the sake of standards it's expected to see another players healthbar when fighting, but should this be applicable in a game such as this? Something that was supposed to be a tad bit more on the Old-School side of things where you'd want to feel out the situation more instead of having an information dump? Also, about auto-selecting the PC that hits you, what if they were hidden and wish to remain hidden/have the skills to stay invisible? I would assume that they would stay out of site if their skills permit, but should that feature even be in there? We could instead have a visual indication of WHERE the attack came from instead of a lock-on. When in PvP zones, should the name plates be allowed in the first place? Anonymity as well as preparation for ambushes would be rendered useless. Could we instead have it so the players themselves say their names and will then make it appear? Kind of like a way to boast their prowess in the field. Other than that, a PC will look like every other NPC in the instance.

In terms of Combat, should spells always be interrupted by movement? Could we set it so the caster has a movement penalty when casting and can at anytime cancel the spell and move back to normal speed? I'm picturing a situation where a knight is covering a mage to get from one cover to another but defending him as he sets his spells up but needs to get into a better vantage point/out of the line of fire. Also how frantic are these encounters going to be? As of now, everything seems very floaty and MMO-ish (go ahead and hang me) where you just river-dance your enemy to death and your references to MOBA is making me a tad bit concerned about the overall flow of things (I sometimes play rank in LoL and played a decent bit of HoN but wish see as little references of those types of games in here). Will we eventually have everything set so our swings are done via individual clicks or are we expected to have all of our combat focused solely on the whack-a-mole system of the "runes" that is still reminiscent of other MMO PvPs ala hotbars (christ that sounds insulting but that's how I'm seeing it and mean no disrespect)? Relying solely on the cards for PvP as a means to attack another player is going to cause some insane balance issues especially with all the schools of magic and combat there are. Knock-ups, stuns, snares, line of site, assist buffs, conditional buffs from combos, cool-downs, recovery rates, speed boosts, debuffs, and more (such as if more than one character are fighting the same guy, aka ganking) are going to make some of the devs over there have their brains implode once somebody breaks the system somehow (look at SMITE). Also the camera is going to be a big deal as well since I don't know if entering combat mode will force you into a static camera position where wherever your characters view-point will be all you see, or will you be able to circle your camera around your avatar which will determine whether or not sneak attacks are going to be applicable (can't sneak on someone if they're checking their character out from the front).

*inhales*

I can keep going, but I'll just shut my mouth until I see more information...

 

Great to hear (read) you Chris!

In can not express how amazing i think it is that you are looking more MOBAS than another MMOS to balance skills xD.

One important issue to define at this stage are how will interact health and focus with stats. And is necessary to define some common buff, debuffs so they can be applied to skills.

You can take a look at: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...cs-stats-and-resistances-some-thoughts.11361/

 

This is great. Thanks Chris! Even though I know you're all pros, I'm still always impressed at how deeply you all have thought these things through. I guess consider my post just a +1 to wanting things really strategic!

Also... I'm so happy MOBAs are part of the inspiration for combat

 

Very happy so far with what I am reading so far! Looking forward to hearing more over the coming weeks!

 

This is going to be a fascinating journey, painful no doubt, but fascinating!
I hope my PvP buddies don't overwhelm the Ninjas all at once with advice and know-how, but allow the process to get under way in due course.
Good luck!

 

Yes, please!!! This was what I proposed many moons ago, and I predict ultimately what we'll end up with.

 

I also like what I hear Chris! I really love the thought about archery too. Having the option to enhance a skill that lowers the penalty for moving while shooting is awesome. I really like the versatility of all the skills. This sounds like it's going to be an awesome classless system.

 

Any thoughts on when reagents will be introduced and just how difficult it will be to gather/purchase them? This is another major balance point to magery vs. other ranged attacks (how tough is it to make arrows?)

 

Hahahahaha - I laughed because this is exactly what could be read from the WoW forums between players and devs! But, yeah, that is to be expected, lets just not go there...

 

Chris, It sounds like a great system is coming together, I can't wait to see this is action. I do have a concern that a lot of comments are focused on how to counter people who may want to focus on spell casting. this seems to be a common theme and spellcasters get the short end of the stick. Hey, a mêlée guy or arch says, hey he's casting a powerful spell lets just move away. Or lets run up and stun the dude and beat on him. How are range people going to counter mêlée skills. At the current time, mêlée skills don't show any casting digits and are instant spells. Let's not forget the other part of the equation, range papers need to be able to offset mêlée actions in the same way the mêlée wants to counter range.

 

Let's not get stuck being too black and white here; if I've started casting my fireball and some big hammer-holding guy comes running at me to interrupt, I'll cancel and pull out my shield to fend off his attack, switch to full melee and take him on. If someone keeps running away, I'll just root.

Now, if one plans to play a pure mage then maybe you'll have some challenges as you'll be limited by available spells/mana/reagents.

I don't remember if we are required to have bare hands/wand/staff of some sort to cast. Either option has pros and cons.