"Battleground" PvP to me seems like a really, really, bad idea....

For many of us PvP heads, this is EXACTLY the thing that we have hated in "next" generation MMORPGS.

I know we will have other PvP options, but I just don't see where this type of PvP fits in a "sandbox" world.

There's already a ton of games that allow for this type of PvP, so it is one of them I would steer clear of.

 

So...if you can flag for open PVP...what part of this system doesn't work for you? You can play in the sandbox with all the others who want to PVP...everyone having fun.

Sandbox(which this game isn't strictly one) doesn't just mean pvp.

 

Never once claimed that Sandbox doesn't just mean PvP.

Sandbox to me has always meant a open persistent world, it has always meant a seamless expansive world in which one could literally immerse themselves in.

What they are doing with "instanced" pvp is just ripping off a easy to do current MMO mechanic, and to most of us PvPers it is the one mechanic we despise the most.

I mean every current MMO out there has it, why don't we just play those instead of this game?

Because they disconnect us from the "world" we are supposed to be living in.

Prime example, WoW, because of all of their "instanced" mechanics, one simply would never have to leave their starting city, once can simply "instance" all the way thru the game, and never once experience a virtual world. I can instance dungeon finder, I can instance BG, I can even instance raid.

Its a mechanic that future game developers should shun.

Developers should be very careful when using current MMO mechanics in the attempt to appease everyone, or all you end up with is another generic game.

 

But in this case you have the ability for full open pvp. That's not at question.

Those areas are just for those who want to dabble in it instead of being fully immersed....I don't see an issue with it to be honest.

 

Well its pretty obvious by now that yes YOU don't see a problem with it....

I, on the other hand, do have a problem with it, because "I" want to be immersed in the world I live in.

This game currently already has too much instancing for my tastes with the silly travel, and the housing being city instanced.

All I know is I felt immersed in UO, just like I feel immersed in darkfall currently.

I do not feel immersed in this world, and if instanced PvP becomes the "norm", its the nail in the coffin for me.

 

What I think you are dancing around is that you want everyone to be attackable and lootable...ie like UO. You haven't come out and said that, but it seems that is what you are looking for.

There will be no one in pvp who hasn't decided to be there, that's just the way it is.

If that is the nail in the coffin, I'm sorry that you won't find anything for you that is worth your time. Others may vary.

We all have opinions even if we don't agree with each other.

 

I don't think that you're being fair towards what he's said. I don't think that he's at all stating that he wants everyone to be attackable. I gather that he doesn't like instanced maps for the reason of less immersion. This is 100 percent true. To travel from one point to another can be an adventure in itself. He gave WoW as an example of how the immersion is lost when simply fast traveling from one instance to the next. It IS lame, it IS a cop-out. I understand that sota is doing instances because of the simplicity of it, since this game has limited resources? That's my guess at least, it's certainly not a perk.

One thing that maybe the author is missing is that players can flag themselves for pvp -anywhere in the world-. Right? I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it. Based on what he author has said, I get the impression that maybe he thinks pvp will only take place in these instanced arenas.

I too wish that the world was seamless, as there's no question that it would be a more immersive world. However I knew from the beginning what sota was and so I'm not interested in starting a crusade to change it. However there's no question that a seamless world would be more immersive than instanced, fast travel, or overhead map style.

 

You have a knack for dictating to others how they should be playing their game and that is your mistake.

Flag for Open PvP by choice yes, then it is full loot time. What time it isn't is stand here, while you stand there, where we each have an equal chance of winning and expecting the attack. That is not PvP.

Also, don't tell me how to play SotA, it is my game. Thanks.

 

Going to a raid in WoW before the LFR: either you kept pestering those that were already in place for a port (which is about as out of character as can be, with the instant long range communication that isn't explained in lore) or you hop into a taxi service and go AFK for a while until it arrives as close to your destination as possible (which not only breaks immersion due to going AFK, it breaks the momentum of the game).

Personally, I find the "port to the instance" option to be better for immersion than the old way. I can justify an instant port better than I can justify a mandatory break to get a snack. But your experience may vary.

It does actually have perks.

One of the issues with realistic travel in games is that real world travel tends to be a lot of boredom with just a few memorable moments; instant travel removes the memorable moments, while non-instant travel retains all the boredom.

The dual scale map allows the devs to go for a middle term; travel can be nearly instant, except for being interrupted by the memorable moments. The best of both worlds, with travel being both fast and exciting in ways that are typically impossible in seamless maps.

There are other perks, too; for example, a seamless world forces the devs to drastically reduce the scale of everything they are building in order to cut travel time down to acceptable levels, while a two scale map allows the devs to stay closer to real scale (just for fun, try to figure how big is each continent in WoW; chances are good that it's far closer to the size of the city you live in than to the size of your country). The dual scale map has vantages and disadvantages; a team that is aware of them — such as the Portalarium team seems to be — can better explore the advantages while reducing the negative effects of its disadvantages.

 

Actually I never said any way for him to play the game at all...I told him there was an option for full open pvp (which he said was still not good enough.) I wasn't sure where he was going with what he said. He won't get the ability to attack whoever he wants if they don't want PVP, that isn't an opinion that is a fact.

I'm not sure where I ever told anyone how to play the game, if anything I'm all for choice. You seem to be a bit on the offensive here.

EDIT: It seems your response to me was a bit personel and it really shouldn't have been since I don't think I have ever said one thing to you. These are opinions and shouldn't be taken that way.

 

rune, I don't know you, but you seem to be calling the kettle black. Simply look at your response to me about "What I think you are dancing around is that you want everyone to be attackable and lootable". I aint afraid of speaking my mind, and if that is what I wanted, I would of said it, dont put words in my mouth, sir.

You also stated ".I told him there was an option for full open pvp (which he said was still not good enough.)" No what I am saying is between full open pvp, Guild warring, and PvP zones, that it is exactly GOOD ENOUGH, and doesn't need another instanced PvP system on top of all of it. Its like you have everything perfect, but then you add that one thing that just makes the game go off its rails.

Please feel free to goto the darkfall forums and search for posts by Gwartham Haldane, as I am one of the most hated players there, because I champion the idea of CONSENTUAL PVP as opposed to the rpk system the game currently has.

IMMMERSION is what I am after, and it has to be a cornerstone of any MMORPG I play.

I still remember my first trip from Trinsic to Britain BECAUSE IT WAS A REAL TRIP TO ME. I remember all the interesting areas I found, all the interesting fights I got into with the wildlife and monsters, and I also distinctly remember my encounter with a PK who was holding the bridge between Trin and Brit.

I will have none of these experiences in this game, as I will just move my silly little avatar around the world Ultima 4 style, and I will engage in PvP via the same old system all the games currently have.

I've already decided this game isn't for me because of it. I will still support it financially, because of my affinity to Richard and Starr and the enjoyment they have brought me in the past, but right now I would rather play my old Darkfall, flaws and all, because there at least I feel like I am part of the world.

 

Ahh ok I better understand you now....be aware we have a lot of posts that start with this system sucks and it all comes down to not being able to attack who you want.

Now, as for pvp zones....hopefully, and I say this with what I know....they do it like they discussed. They would be there because of strange events that led to that zone being a combat zone. The way you see it now isn't the final way it was supposed to be. For instance, we are to have shardfall areas (basically a destroyed area hit by a shard from the sky with lots of resources to fight over) and sieges as pvp zones...they make sense lore and story wise....I think(I may be wrong) that is what you are looking for.

The way you see it now I think is more placeholder just to test the systems.

 

My problem is sofar all the "zones" are soooo small, like travel across them in less then 45 seconds small it seems.

This game IS the spiritual successor to the Ultima series of single player games, and that's great. The Ultima series of single player games has a very fond place in my heart as my first RPG games sitting at school after class to play Ultima 2 and 3 on a old Apple 2.

This game is NOT the spiritual successor to Ultima Online, I think that really needs to be made very clear to those interested in this game.

They really are 2 separate beasts completely, and what they are doing with this game is really more akin to diablo/neverwinter nights then it does to UO.

Nor do I believe this game is a sandbox, its a vehicle to drive a single player/limited multiplayer story.

Again, let me stress that none of this is a bad thing, its just not what I am looking for in this age of MMO's, it really feels like several steps BACKWARDS when I look at this game thru a MMORPG lens.

Uo spoiled/ruined me on what my expectations are in a game and gameplay, and in this day and age of crowdsourcing, I cant wait untill some unknown small group of people give us the true spiritual successor to UO. I have faith it is coming.

 

That's the thing. I don't think it ever was marketed as the spiritual successor to UO. It mentioned it in the kickstarter page but never as a spiritual successor. It was supposed to be a selective MP game with sandbox elements(I still think these will be there, no need to worry about that).

Personally I would have loved if they had spent the time to do a modern Ultima7 style game....however, they didn't. UO to me wasn't very Ultima at all, at least not compared to the older games. Now, as to what we have here I'm not sure. They are trying some pretty ambitous stuff, which if done right might be a pretty good melding of features of both sets of games.

I guess only time will tell at this point. One thing of note is that is very obvious that the UO only crowd has a very different perspective of what Ultima was then those that have played both, or only the single player games.

 

As someone said in another post I don't feel like searching for but it was "you have to experience high lows to experience highs"
So what, you have boredom every once in a while, whilewalking to that epic dungeon. But, then you get those moments where you may find a friend or enemy (if you have PvP enabled) that could change your life, just sayin. <];D

 

No but the hypemongers are definately using the term...feel free to google it.

 

I don't argue that point at all...doesn't make them right though.

 

Meaning of.......
A spiritual successor, sometimes called a spiritual sequel, is a successor to a work of fiction which does not build upon the storyline established by a previous work as do most traditional prequels or sequels, but nevertheless features many of the same elements, themes, and styles as its source ...



Oh and just to jump in a bit, this isn't a game yet, the map is by no means done, nor is the game. There is always going to be someone coming in and saying they don't like the game and it is understandable if they think they are looking at the game instead of bare bones.

I truly wish RG had not said this game is the spiritual successor to Ultima because that is thrown in arguments and comments so very much. I am here to give feedback to have this game have the features that are important to me. This game by no means will be Ultima or a Sequel, it will be a stand alone game with as many of our favorite features in as possible.

Regarding the map, if you are up on past information on it will undergo many changes, including possible seaming together of areas that will be large, events, and many, many more layers of wonderment. It isn't the 1st choice of many, I do know they Devs will make it as terrific as they can, and all in all what the game will have outside of this fact will be developing right now because we are here. It takes patience to try to envision what will be.

Player towns are truly taking shape and will have themes, many of them will have terrific PVP as their focus. Of course if PVP is the only Focus for some, perhaps another game, I tried age of wushu and that is one I can think of. Oh well as always I wish you all the best community to find whatever you are looking for whether it be this game when it is completed or another game. ***cheers***

 

an instanced pvp arena is something 50 % of the people might not like !!! new players suffering from such a system , someone with the best gear is unbeatable and for sure will use his op equipment . those arenas are more an endgame pvp alternative if you have found the best gear .
in my opinion pvp should be open world for the individuals who want that ,with much cheeper player crafted gear which is more easy to get. maybe 20 min instead of a month for a "raid dungeon set "

but the map instances are way too small, he is totally right !!! it feels like you enter another loading screen every 2 minutes. a game with an advanced housing system can´t be a steamless open world game but the instances should be at least 4 times as big as they are now

 

I'm really hoping that this game will not be as gear centered as say, WOW. Mind you I've never even played WOW, but I have had two room mates (one currently) that play/ed and I've read a ton about it - enough to know that it's all about your character level and gear. In sota, since most everything will be crafted by players AND items can be lost in pvp (to what extent? do we know yet?) I'm really hoping that this game will be at least a little player-skill based. I don't know any nice way to say it but; wow pvp and the game itself seems like a puddle of piss to me. It seems like a single player game with a chatroom and some garbage class/gear based pvp. Man I really opened up a can of worms with that assessment, I guess that I'm feeling saucy! Don't get me wrong, I think that I'd have enjoyed WoW for at least a little bit, had I played it before I learned everything about it - but probably not for long, though.

As for sota not being a "spiritual successor to UO", we can dance around what it's been called by the staff all day long. The fact is that this game is an online version of the Ultima series, which, by the way, Ultima Online was as well. Call it what you want, sota IS Ultima Online, by definition. There are going to be players playing together in an Ultima world - selling wares, pvping, decorating their houses for others to see - that's what Ultima Online was, guys. Ultima Online was perhaps more sandboxy and from the sounds of it, much more of an open free world, but none the less, sota is VERY similar. Take away the instances and consensual pvp and you've got Ultima Online, folks. Let's not forget that sota has been heavily advertised to UO players. I actually learned about sota via Richard Garriot visiting some UO freeshards. Let's also not forget that there are a giant pile of UO players here waiting for the game as well. I'm not suggesting that because there are a lot of us that we should get our way, but I am suggesting that we shouldn't be swept under the rug because "this isn't the spiritual successor of UO" per se.

These forums, especially the pvp section, seem to be a UO vs Ultima Not Online battle of words. People making references to UO are often met with word aggression. I've experienced this myself. One time I was merely posting my desire that sota pvp be skill based, not gear or character based. This was met with exactly what the author of this thread was met with: "this isn't UO and people won't be able to kill and loot willy nilly". Which wasn't even remotely what I was asking for. I wasn't implying non consensual pvp, but this guy insisted that I was secretly pushing my UO agenda.

Anyway, my point is, we're here, we're queer, and sota is Ultima Online whether you like it or not.

Edit; King Roland, this wasn't all directed at you, by the way. Your comment about gear spawned thoughts in my head and then I heavily digressed