please add six million dollar stretch goal to abandon dual scale map

I'm not sure about this, I think a lot of games coming out touting old school mechanics are finding audience with the new kids. Look at wasteland 2 and project eternity for a couple of examples....or better yet divine divinity original sin(oh how I wish richard had decided to do a single player game again with all the npc scheduals and world like ultima 7 with modern graphics.....)

 

Just my opinion,

I came to this game looking to revive my old Ultima Online experience, I supported the project and now I just have lost my faith about it. Just 2 reasons, the map and the combat using "decks"... I´m no here to restart a discussion, I´m just simply sad, this is another lost opportunity.

Surely I will check the game again with the release, but I´m not going to pay a fee for it... even I would be happier with a refund of my supporting money.

 

Personally, I love the combat mechanics of UO and SotA. Very skeptical of the decks at first but quickly grew to enjoy them. In a lot of ways, having a deck isn't much different than having, for example, spell combinations/macro attacks in UO. And in reality the decks are much more flexible and open to creativity than anything ever available in UO.

 

About scenes, honestly what is the difference between running up and whacking a rat in the woods in an open world MMO, between running up and whacking a rat in a scene that is replicated? We are still whacking the rat. The point of more scenes isn't the action. It is the exploration factor. The change to learn, discover, and be wowed by something new in the game...and then to have some ability to rediscover that again later, without everything being cookie cutter. So I agree, the more variations on scenes the better. That is more important than total land mass.

 

Doesn't seem like you have been following at all....there is no fee.

 

I guess only time will tell.
I wonder what the demographics are for the people who have signed up so far.

I'm guessing that not a lot of kids have contributed to the development program so there probably haven't been much input from the younger players so far.

When I becomes available to the general public it will be obvious pretty quickly who is playing and who isn't.

But I still have a feeling that younger players who never played the old games are going to be turned off by the graphics and combat.

New games have developed combat that is really interactive and mobile.
No standing still selecting a target and pushing buttons, you have to move use strategy and timing.

I'm still on the fence, but I've had very little time in the game so far.
Maybe I'll feel different once I figure out what's going on myself.

Mike

 

The overland map is a necessary part of the design as a whole. The new selective multiplayer design basically requires it.


After playing MMOs for the last 15+ years, I don't really see a problem with the overland map after buying in to the whole selective multiplayer aspect to start.


I was worried about their "deck" style combat too, but that's turned out to be pretty frickin awesome imo. At this point I'm gonna assume they'll make the overland map awesome in the end too.

 

I feel you man... that would be great to just get completely immersed/lost in this new world. It will never happen sadly....But check out the hangouts, interviews, and other videos with LB and DS. They really spell out the reasons for the overland map.

It brings me back to the old Ultima days before UO. Dont get me wrong I played UO for 12 years loved every minute of it and I was hoping for SotA to be UO2, but every new release, I get more excited for something fresh and new. Lets just thank god that this game isnt going to be a janky clone of something that already exists.

On the other hand, you could wait a few years for someone to reverse-engineer the game then you can start your own SotA server and raise money to bring in complete immersion, although am not too skeptical of the $20M figure i heard earlier though.

 

For those who may be wondering, the figures that people keep mentioning with regard to the cost of a world without 'hex scenes' come from this Dev Q&A reply which was posted back in May. (The fourth question.)

(I would have copied the quote directly but I'm not sure if that's allowed; however, anyone with a pledge of some kind ought to be able to access that link. I can read the thread, and I'm not Dev+.)

 

It comes down to keeping the game instances hosted on our side vs Portalarium hosting. It gets rid of monthlh maitenence fees for us the end users. I'm all for it.

 

I remember when Lord British touted this game as the "Ultimate RPG Game". It would be the "Ultimate" one if it didn't have a dual scale map.

 

Now that is a leap of logic.

 

May I suggest the following partial compromise?

Scenario 1:
Exiting a level that has an adjacent labelled level in the direction that you are heading: skip the overhead map, and directly enter the next level.

Scenario 2:
Exiting a level that does not have an adjacent labelled level in the direction that you are heading: transition to overhead map.

Scenario 3:
The user wants to go to the overhead map from anywhere in the current level: execute /map command (or hot key equivalent)

Incidentally, it would be great if the overhead map placed you above the level you were just in, rather than where you last were when you used the overhead map.

 

This needs to be gimped for exploits. So you need to be out-of-combat and in no proxemity to any hostiles of any kind. And you'd have a 15s countdown which would cancel if someone/something got into your proxemity.

then please add
Scenario 4:
For places which you have explored and which doesn't have restrictions due to storyline. Add several entry points.

(So first time you enter Kingsport it is by the Northern gate, but if you have explored it and exitid through the southern, then next time you are on the overland map and the hex lights up, you get several options on where to press [Enter] including the southern gate, or wherever you could reasonably walk around from.)

 

Can I get a 5.5 million dollar stretch goal to eliminate the 6 million dollar stretch goal attempting to eliminate a core mechanic of the game promised from the start?

 

I have seen indie games with teeny tiny budgets less than what Shroud has, and even they include large seamless world with no loading screens. :/

And dare I say, better graphics too.

 

My two cents. I agree with both sides of the argument, because I like both the continuous world view, but on the flip side I do like skipping the fluff when I need to.

But then I stopped and thought about the core of SotA. Not other MMOs, but SotA specifically. It was meant to be something like the programming of a tabletop game into a MMO universe. Well, in that case, it is correct as is and should not be changed.

If you think about how someone plays a tabletop game, they GM describes the scenes for the players. What is important is the part of the RPG world in the immediate vicinity of the player. And at the same time, the only part of the game you can play is the part the GM describes to you. That said, know that the GM is not going to sit there and tell you about every tree and rock and shrubbery you pass for 134 miles between Noobvillage and Derp Castle. That is a waste of time and energy for them, and would quickly get very boring to you as the player.

----

You: "What do I see?"
GM: "A large fallen tree rises up out of the leaves that have fallen from the great oaks before you. Sun peers between the trees and hangs in the distance as if to say this day will last forever. What do you want to do next?"

You: "I continue walking."

GM: "Okay, Many oak trees stand tall in front of you and their leaves lie about the ground telling you that the season is come to Fall. The sun angles thru the trees without offering much warmth against the autumn chill. What do you want to do next?"

You: "I continue walking."

GM: "Okay, The crunch of leaves beneath your feet is the only sound in the forest this fair autumn day. You are alone in the woods save the silence of the many oak trees around you. The sun breaks thru yonder trees to continue lighting your way, but does little to relieve the chill of the day. What do you want to do next?"

You: "I continue walking."

GM: "Okay, here we go. I this scene, there is a small trickle of a stream barely showing thru the carpet of leaves on the woods floor. The barely audible sound of slowly running water dances lightly on the still air. The many trees around you seem like statues, not even swaying. And the light of the afternoon sun offers no warmth. What do you want to do next?"

You: "Are there fish in the stream?"

GM: "Nope."

You: "Hmm... I guess I continue walking."

GM: "Okay, there are many trees around you this autumn day, and they all have dropped their leaves to the ground...

--------


I mean, you get the idea? In a true tabletop game, you skip all that. You are told and you get to play the scenes that are interesting and exciting. It is the exact same as the pop-out map. Granted there is a small amount of immersion that goes out the window because you skip the reality of taking days and days to travel the great expanse. But at the same time there is an amount of immersion that is breathed in. Because a game that doesn't hold your attention for such long travel periods loses your interest, and nothing kills your immersion MORE than losing interest.

 

I remember when World of Warcraft came out, the thing that was so amazing about it was that it was a gigantic open world with no zones you had to load into like previous 3d mmo games ie. Everquest. There is no doubt that open worlds are better and more immersible than fragmented zoning with loading times between each area. It is what it is though and I will still play this game and have fun.

 

Lol you call it a "mechanic" I call it a compromise.

 

The dual scale map was billed as such in the KS and reiterated in the Rooster Teeth conference in '13.

I don't call it anything -- it was touted as a core game mechanic since day one.

There is a glut of prevalent information about it ever since April '13.

Caveat Emptor.

Cheers.