Can we untangle Ultima and the Fantasy Real Estate Sim?

yes, as i said, this is the learned behavior i've already formed: that the game does not encourage exploration because it builds in a LOT of unrewarding clutter for any given player. This is a problem for me because am i to then just assume that the game actually DOESN'T want us to explore, they really just want most of us to ignore 80% of what's there? What's the point of even having an immersive 3d environment if you're not supposed to go poking around in it, with a REASONABLE expectation that you'll get something more out of it than the affirmation that yes, those houses ARE all actually slightly different.

And how am i going to know which parts of the world are worth visiting and which parts aren't? My opinion of a good design is one which communicates to the player what they either NEED or WANT to know. One of these things which automatically becomes an issue with a 2-scale map is that anything ON that map automatically communicates "HEY! THERE'S SOMETHING IMPORTANT HERE!" But to then go in and waste a bunch of time figuring out that, no actually, it's just a neighborhood, well... it doesn't take a lot of those experiences for a player to learn that their time is better spent with games that try a little harder to communicate more clearly. The end goal here is for everyone to enjoy themselves, not to just throw up our hands and say "yeah well, they sold houses, so the game's gonna just have to be tedious for everyone not interested in The Sims: Not-Britannia-Nudge-Nudge-Wink-Wink Edition."

 

this would work for me too. an accomodation for those uninterested in the UGC portion of the game. or even a global preference that you can set to automatically do this every time you enter a town if you want to play that way.

 

Yes, I know, you're my neighbor :> By the way, it would really have helped if there was either a function to dump everything on your lot into the bank, or if you could pick up things in your lot as groups, not worrying about picking things off the table before you pick the table up. I think people will have cleaned up a lot sooner after the stress test if they just had the tools to do it.

I expect POTs to get a bit better when the devs sit down and work with the owners to actually grind out some unique designs. The biggest problem is they tend to lack structure. Plus, more elements like lamp posts and so on would help. POTs could hire lamplighters and street sweepers. And then maybe even player owned NPCs can give out custom quests. I expect interesting things to come in the future, too like player-run libraries, museums, and gardens.

Still I think its important for the devs to think about how this will all click together, both for the enjoyment of players building their lots and making creative things on their lots, and also for visitors who just want to be able to enjoy living in the world.

Also, I really hope they don't decide Ardoris is too big, I hope they find ways to make the space fun to be in.

@Wanderlust, Vendors are coming in the game later. It's already a feature they've committed to. There are other threads where people have suggested the need for buildings with open stalls on the bottom floor-- with a window and a counter for the vendor facing the street, like a store. Street vendors -- ie carts placed outside the property -- would also be nice. I remember in an earlier version of Owl's Head, there were some carts by a side street.

 

Actually that is a bit of misunderstanding.

What you are seeing in the alpha are not how POTs will be. Instead you are seeing Player Run Towns (like Holtrot and Valemark) they have no owner and no NPCs.
When it comes to POTs they will have about the same amount of NPCs as ordinary towns, including businesses.

Take Braemar as an example and look on the map. That is how most smaller POTs will look like.
Player lots surrounding an NPC center.

 

Not everyone can enjoy everything, this is aimed as a sandbox MMO, if you want a reward > time investment MMO I don't think this is it, if you think wandering in to a player run town and exploring all the player run establishments, interacting with the community within unrewarding then thats you, personally I enjoy it, and I really look forward to building it at Berans reach. If to you a player run town is 'just a neighbourhood' then I don't have much to add, there are many products out there that meet these kind of goals, I love wow, its a great theme park game and you know exactly where, when, how and why you're doing stuff (purples), imo this game doesn't it just gives you a lot of tools to make of it what you will.

Ps Im not having a go, this is a feedback forum after all.

 

Not offended, or at least not mad AT YOU about it.

The game is probably for people like you you and not for people like me. It certainly feels that I'm in the wrong place, and there's no way to really know if there are any more people like me since we'd by nature not be hugely active in a community site developing a game for less communally-minded players. Which is to say that it's not surprising that the majority of feedback driving the game development will be coming from a self-selecting population that does not see any time spent in the world as "wasted." Those of us who just want to visit and save the world every so often... well, we'll always have The Black Gate thanks to GOG.

I just made the mistake of wanting to play a new Ultima in a post-UO world. This is exactly why I'm staying at arm's length from Star Citizen -- because it seemed to me that the thrill of space combat was being far overshadowed by "Day Job In Space: The Game" mechanics.

 

Kristen,

I think you'll find that there are a lot of people on the forums that enjoyed the single player Ultimas more than UO, and others who enjoyed UO more than the single player games. There are sometimes threads arguing how a focus on multiplayer has impacted the single player experience, or at least, from the perspective that they want something that plays like the single player Ultimas and think the MMO focus gets in the way.

There are a lot of viewpoints in the forums!

Personally, as I said, I loved the single player Ultimas, but one of my favorite things to do was hang around the bigger cities. In Ultima VII, I got sorely disappointed when it turned out every city after Britain was really tiny. You travel across vast ocean, bravely surviving storms and sea monsters, and arrive at the shores of New Magincia... where there isn't much else besides a tavern, shipwright, flower shop, and storehouse.

But we always need more viewpoints.

 

Last I checked this wasn't solely aimed at sand box MMO...it was aimed at a story based game with sandbox elements...that shouldn't mean towns get so buried that they are not recognizable to what the debs wanted.

 

i'm more into MMO culture than single-play RPG culture these days. so my focus is there. what this game really needs is more people focused on the single-play RPG culture, but understanding that this is a hybrid where give and take takes place on all sides.

the problem is this: most of the people in the MMO culture come from the RPG culture, but have a current emphasis on MMO style. even if some of us can change our viewpoint to the single-player-rpg style mode, our perspective is STILL from the MMO style. - because of that, the single-player style is under-represented here. for both modes to be properly addressed, both types of players need to be properly represented.

Kristen - i beg you. stay with us through this journey. add your thoughts from the single-player perspective, FOR the single player experience in our game.. my game. your game, their game, our game.... see, the game isn't only for one type of gamer. its for all types. i'd recommend prefacing some of your threads you start, that this is coming from the single-play-RPG focus, so those of us with the MMO focus do not get confused (we will. and chaos ensues..)

 

A lot of the single player content isn't developed yet because they're working on underlying systems first. Even when a lot of it is developed, they're going to hide as much of the plot as possible as long as they can. I will say that after the next patch, try talking to every single NPC in Owl's Head (including guards) and you may discover a little world building. The dialogue is there in this release, but there is also a bug breaking longer lines of dialogue with the guards that I expect will be fixed in the next patch.

 

True, and we'll see the single player stuff at a later date and how it works alongside the current sandbox MMO part.

 

Welcome Kristen.Maxwell to Shroud of the Avatar. Yes I understand most games don't have housing being shown off so much. Housing is totally not what this game is about, it is just a great crowdfunding resource and some really love that aspect because we are pack rats. lol Ultima was such a leader in the gaming industry with something for for everyone. So much interaction and immersion, story, pvp, you're not really seing the game right now. I'm sure it will display quite differently when released, true there will be housing, but who said you will be in the neighborhoods, you may be out adventuring, fishing, or if you like pvp you maybe out challenging other players, maybe solving a mystery that you heard of from the bar tender in owls head, or doing some guild event, or pershaps doing a treasure map. It will be amazing once it is all put together. So many ideas going into the game all in one game. I cannot wait. It is very nice to meet you. ***cheers everyone***
***sorry corrected the spelling on your name..***

 

Great suggestion!

 

This.
I felt this since the beginning of the Alpha (when all we saw was Owl's Head and Kingsport.

Player housing is fine ..I understand there is a desire for that sort of thing, but for those who wanted (and supported) this game for a next-gen Ultima .. it seems like a lot of useless fluff to the player.

I personally HATE going to Owl's Head now knowing I have to spend a minute or two going through these gigantic (as in bigger than the rest of the town) player houses while trying to find actual places where there are NPCs to interact with.

 

while i love the freedom of expression, and really enjoy the player housing.. i'm starting to get a little tired of running all the way from the outskirts of the zone line into upper owlshead to speak to the blacksmith.. maybe if the player-housing part could be a little further to the side, setting the zone-in line to a few feet from the bridge leading into the central npc controlled areas..yknow, turning left and right will get you to the player housing if you wish to go there, but its just out of the way enough..

like in kingsport. maybe just before the bridge hits, is the zone point, not the guard tower.. or have the zone-in point at the other entrance halfway through the wooded area that is inside the gate, so you just turn left to get to the oracle tower.

 

We're here with you, if not as vocal. Myself, Darkmoon, rune_74, Sir Cabrius (and many others) champion the single player aspect and backed the project with SP Ultimas in mind. You're not alone!

 

Thanks, everyone. Sorry to come in a be an agitator-- I realize this game is trying to please two very different demographics, and I don't mean to belittle what others enjoy and expect.

 

Also keep in mind that housing will be drastically different in the final release. I come from a single player Ultima background. I started with Ultima III and never played UO. This is the first MMO I dared play. And with that, I am greatly entertained by what this game has to offer. Yes, there are some unusual structures, but if you read the threads and listen to the dev talks, those are to test the limits and boundaries of housing. Dozens of bugs have been found based on these efforts. Some of the houses look that way simply because it can be done. I highly doubt that will be the case in the final release.

Further, there will be 80+ player owned towns in the final release. People will be moving out of the major cities and staking their claims elsewhere. The landscape will be completely different when this game is done. We have at least 9 months or more of development and what we saw 6 months ago is nothing like what we see today. What we see in 9 months won't be like what we see today. You never know, Owl's Head might be completely empty when the game launches because everyone is in their own town.

Yes, some of the housing looks unusual, but keep in mind, so much of what we see is proof of concept and nothing more than test systems. They're just gathering stats and metrics.

I believe I come from the same Ultima background, and this is the only MMO I'm willing to take on. There is so much to like about this game. Remember, this is Alpha. Pre-Alpha to be exact. This is the messy phase.

 

POT's may become the overworld map's version of housing problem....especially if there are to many.

 

thats the thing, you aren't belittling it. it just isn't for you, and trust us. we get that. much like you, we too have convictions, so it may seem like we're offended, but i personally don't know of anyone here that is.

so please. stick with us, we could use your input.