Anti-Archer Discrimination?

Are Archers like Mages the more privileged elite class in SotA? You most certainly cannot start as one unless like a mage you purchase a ton of gold! So with this in mind can we agree that the Archer is NOT a starter class character? I think specialist arrows should be free due to the fact that comparable melee skills are free at the point of use.
Essentially anyone can create a warrior class character and not incur any cost in using skills; however an archer must pay through the nose for any arrow specialist or otherwise. Also, crafting arrow heads costs an ENTIRE iron ingot, traditionally 10 arrowhead's might use a fraction of an ingot. For the same amount of mats it takes to create 50 arrowheads you can craft an entire piece of chest armour.

I think the answer is simple, IF the devs want to keep ranged combat costs high coudl they at least let the player PICK UP their arrows???

 

I started off as an archer and I am doing just fine ..... a little bit of a rough start but no worries after lvl 5
there is also an innate glyph that allows you to rank up arrow recovery

 

Right, "Ammo Scavenger" will give you up to 50% recovery of arrows.

Having played Melee, Mage, and Archer, I think the costs of playing these archetypes is fairly consistent.

You pay for repair costs as Melee, Arrows as an Archer, and Reagents as a Mage.

I don't really see the problem here.

 

Too heavy carrying all the arrows or regs. IMO I'll have to play around a with it more.

 

I think that's a fair complaint.

I don't have a problem with the weight of arrows and reagents, but the impact to encumbrance should be more manageable. What I'd like to see them do is allow players to keep reagents in sacks and arrows in quivers in an effort to redistribute the weight. So if you put reagents in a small sack you essentially get an encumbrance bonus for whatever is in the sack (let's say 25%). Likewise if you put arrows in a quiver you get a 25% bonus on the arrows. Something like that.

 

Myself, I'm sticking with melee for now. Makes my head hurt much less. Magery and archery just look like too much hassle. The weight and needed quantity of regs a mage has to carry around seem overly prohibitive to me.

And archery....whew. I started looking into it, checking abilities and requirements, and arrow prices and/or crafting them. Gave it up for now. Maybe in a future release. One arrow for each shot, of course. But each ability uses different types arrows, so you have to carry multiple types in quantity?

The price of arrows is prohibitive imo. And making them......bleh, I won't even go into that. That's another subject altogether since crafting currently needs some very serious attention.

So I will just stick with melee, like I said. I think that if the goal is to inhibit people 'like me' from using magery or archery, they are achieving that goal admirably. I have a friend who's totally into archery, but he's 'extremely' dedicated. lol. *ducks*

If not, and if they are planning to make it a little more player friendly for folks like me, then a good start would be, as others have said, to lower the cost of arrows on npc's, allow quivers & regs bags that reduce the weight, and give a little love to the crafting system.

 

Yes, I have just noticed that skill, I'll level a bit as a melee character then move to Archer and try again.

Those are my thoughts exactly; however, DavzNotHereMan wrote that he is having np, so what's he doing we aren't?

 

Does Iolo's crossbow also use arrows or are there bolts for it, and where can I purchase them?

 

I find anything short of a full melee build to be at a disadvantage when it comes to leveling.


edit .... and at a disadvantage earning gold as well

 

Right now, I'm doing mixed archer/melee.

Normally fight with a sword and shield in light armor, and some time after, I think lev. 25, I started investing in Quick Swapping and Ranged skills. The point was to start combat with a stealth archery attack, and then move in with my weapon. Its a little disappointing because the auto-attack hastened my ambush, when I wanted to used Aimed Shot and the range was short.

If you want to read about my experiences with the build, I describe them here, and discuss a possible solution here.

 

Nice, thanks Redfish.

 

I believe crafting "one" arrow yields 10. I may be recalling incorrectly but i believe thats how it works

 

Unfortunately, 'Arrow Scavenger' doesn't seem to work for me I put 3 levels in that skill and haven't found a single arrow from looting so I can only assume it hasn't been implemented yet.

 

I will have to agree that Archer is quite difficult to get started with. The cost of arrows is extremely high, and yes, you need to carry 5 different types once you get all the skills. Since it takes multiple arrows to take down a target, you will throw them all away in no time. And since you are most likely wearing light armor, you have to repair or replace armor quite frequently. If the archer is party of group I can see it being easy to get started. Starting solo is quite tough.

I started as melee and looted the gem mines. I don't think I could afford the arrows I go through if that hadn't been part of the early launch.

I switched over to archer exclusively many levels ago and it has been a tough, but interesting voyage. I've now reached Level 41 and spend a fair bit of time in Deep Ravenswood clearing out Bears, Spiders, Wolves and Skeletons. I go through 500+ arrows per level. That is a considerable amount of weight.

I have the arrow scavenger and it of course only works against other archers. The most I have seen returned is 5. Not exactly going to keep you supplied at that rate.

Unfortunately, the two skills that would really make a difference - multishot and quick draw - are missing from the tree.

The archer is a fun build and is a lot more involved that melee combat. I've had a lot of fun with it and will continue through the rest of this release, but I have to agree, I can't see anyone starting from ground 0 as the archer. The cost of materials and weight needed are just too high.

 

I tried in R12 and R13 the archer build.

With encumbrance added in, no Elven bow (I mowed down horders of elf archers, and none found), and crafting costs as high as they are, I gave up that career in R14.

I'm very sad. My favorite play style is the solo hunting marksman. But the efficiency of archery compared with iron-bricks melee marauders is just too damn much to make me want to compensate with RP.

 

Problem is as a mage you have to repair costs as well. Is there any difference in repairing a suit and a sword compared to a suit and a shield?

The biggest off putting thing for mages is the cost of regs. They should probably be a quarter of the price they are.

The biggest off putting thing for archers is the cost of arrows coupled with the number of different types and the weight. I can just about stomach being a mage, but I pretty much restrict myself to the lower end of magery purely due to reg cost. I haven't even bothered looking at an archer due to the cost of arrows, so many types and the weight issue.

There is no question that the upkeep cost of maintaining a character that uses a sword/shield is way lower than that of a mage or archer. I mean lets face it cast 2 spells and thats the price of a repair kit!

 

If you look around you will find arrows for free in various locations (like the basement of the tavern of Braemar or near the drawbridge outside of Obsidian Keep), you can use these to grab enough arrows to start off as an archer. As for reagents (i am a mage) i have not used any for 2 releases and even now i will only use them for PvP where the occasional lightning fizzle actually matters. As a higher level mage you find yourself taking just as much equipment damage as melee does due to the need to use allot of "touch" spells and if you are wearing crafted gear then adding the cost of reagents tips you over the edge for cost vs profit. Archers however have no need at all to ever be within melee range and should only be needing repairs on their bow. On top of this, possibly the best bow in the game is the elf bow, so if you kill elves now and then you should rarely need to ever repair anything. Archers also are in light enough gear to make use of spells like root and gust to further ensure they can keep their distance. With the arrow recovery skill archers are actually the most cost efficient choice of the three "classes". Or at least on par with the other two.

 

Themo, only in very open areas archers might be able to keep their distance from the enemy's reach. In cramped tunnels, it's just near damn impossible. Graff mines, Eye tower, Sewers, Clink: your armor will wear out, even more so if you want to take advantage of the standing still buff - initially intended to enhance proejctile users, but comically more useful for tank-n-spank chars.

It takes many, many more hits from arrows (and ammo, and encumbrance, etc.) than it takes from a melee weapon to down an enemy. You carry a spare sword and you're done. Tales of people running dry of ammo after smoking 2-3000 arrows are all over the forums. My standard adventuring batch is 1000. The point is that ranged attacks are mindbogglingly less effective than magic and melee. And the arrow recovering skill, the last time I bothered to try maxing it out, recovered 1-5 more arrows, and only from enemies actually using them, not from wolves or spiders! I.e. you recover their ammo, not your own.

Eventually I'll try out again the bowyer way, but for this release my hopes are pretty low.

 

Well, if you cast two higher level spells, yes - it's more expensive.

You can cast Death Touch and Fire Arrow all day and have no expense at all. In addition, Death Touch can't be interrupted and heals you while doing massive damage to your opponent. So it's not that mages are more expensive currently, it's that reagents are more expensive than arrows and repair kits (if you're actually using them).

It's certainly out of balance at the moment, but I don't see it as a long term problem. I think this is a first pass at "maintenance economics". I mean, players are not using weapons or armor that they can't just buy more of for a cheaper price than it would take to repair them. In fact it's currently much MUCH cheaper just to buy more stuff. I know that some players are crafting maple hilts and using epic armor or whatever that gives them a slight edge in pvp, and yes that can't currently be remade (so it needs to be repaired).

But you have to remember that players don't have vendors allowing them to sell weapons, armor, and repairs at more competitive prices. So the economy is not really developed yet. That's why everything is a little wacky right now. Not because repair kits "cost too much" or "reagents need to cost less".

 

I am so sad to hear about the Archers probs in this game, I only play archer types, cause thats my fave, them and any stealth char type.... hoping they change this and make them solo friendly.... will be terribly disappointed I can't solo one easily ....