Level should never prevent players from continuing the story

Not yet no, hoping some of the skills will start appearing next alpha release. Definitely will be fully in place for actual release, though.

 

I like that the Skill and Crafting tree are different and as you gain the appropriate experience in each you get to upgrade the skill tree. But over all the total experience for levels, gaining HP, and stats should be a combined experience. Since through knowledge is poer.

 

Negative example for this is how Final Fantasy XIV handles quest. You have to reach a certain level to get the quest. So if I want to follow the story and my level is 18, I cannot go on as for the next quest to start I first have to reach level 20. So I am ripped out of the story and have to grind respawning enemies before I can continue. This is ridiculous. There needs to be flow to it.
Frodo Baggins did not have to kill 20 orcs before being allowed to enter Mount Doom while Aragorn and the others fought for their lives at the black gate.
For me following the story in a game is somewhat like reading a book. There needs to be flow to the story. It needs to progress naturally and not be dirupted again and again.

Of course I hope that the quest structure of the game is like redfish described it but there could be some events and quests in the game that will be more linear. Especially after seeing this - rather old - video of SotA with the siege of a city.

 

There could be some linear quest structure in a generally non-linear story.. what they'd have to do is chain some quests, so by the time you have to do one, you would have done another first, so the game can be sure you're ready.

I'm hoping that looking at the overall game though, there are some places that are really dangerous and where you shouldn't go the moment you hear about them. There should be plenty of other things to do in the game, though, not just random adventuring to gain experience and loot, but other questing, too.

 

This is usually done because the quest challenges are not suitable (ie suicide) for lower level characters. However, clearly SOTA likes the idea of people not knowing how hard an enemy will be, so I expect they will let a level 5 player quest all the way through. That being said, I expect that player will not make it all the way through without leveling because they will not be able to meet the challenges required. As it should be.

 

What would be really cool is if you could manage to do quests with high level monsters as a low level character, just by using your wit.

 

I don't want to see level gates in the game where you can not enter areas ( or start quests) until you reach a certain level. But that is not to say that I should be able to survive or even complete quests at any level.

I would like to have the world open where I could go anywhere no matter my level. But if the challenges prove to be to much for me with my current skills then I will fail until I am able to complete it.

One way they could deal with the burning village (in single offline) is to simply not have a burning city under attack if you have not proven you are ready to deal with it. The city would just be a normal city before you are ready. Then become under attack as you work your way up to that part. And then back to a normal city once you have taken care of the situation.

I have faith that most of this will flow well in single offline mode. It always worked in the early single player series. If you was not ready for something then you would not be able to progress until you have completed something or have a certain item.

 

I don't really have anything to add, a couple of people have already made the point that is key to Ultima-style questing in my eyes: you're not usually blocked by artificial level barriers, but you 'level up' through exploring in tandem with following the story, so that by the time you find the clue that leads you to the burning village (or whatever) you will be strong enough to attempt the scenario. Not necessarily strong enough to guarantee success, but at least have a fighting chance. LB has done this very effectively in the past and I'm pretty confident he's put a lot of thought into this game's story, even before getting the game to a playable pre-alpha state.

(but to be clear - in principle I agree with the OP - I just don't think it's likely to be an issue)

 

i like how GW2 handled it. yes you can do it, but it scales up per sub-quest... you can still do it but it is just much more difficult to do so. - butr if you do it at the level you are currently at, and it matches the reccomended level, it ABSOLUTELY helps you gain those levels faster. don't have to if you dont' wanna tho.

i also agree that the scaling aspect should be later in the cycle, to let the other systems come online first so then the scaling can be done right, with all those other aspect taken into account too.

 

If they actually spend time doing that which I don't think any time is being scheduled for that.

 

I thought Thief 2 was a very cool game, but they promised to allow players to clear the entire game without killing anyone and only using stealth skills. After player for a few hours it became obvious that goal wasn't really "true" as many of the NPC's you needed to get past were fixed in a position where you had to kill them to proceed. There may have been ways to get through those situations using stealth but the margin of error was so low it would've taken you forever before you were lucky enough to succeed.

My point is that I feel the same way about leveling. Ideally we'd have the option to proceed through the story without killing wolves or butchering peaceful tribesman. But it appears that grinding is going to be a major focus of this game.

 

You may be right but this would go against what was said during the Kickstarter campaign: "Shroud of the Avatar is the first installment of Richard's new vision and represents the reinvention of the classic, fantasy role-playing game which he pioneered. A fantasy role-playing game that will focus more on player-choices and discoveries than on level grinding."

 

Could be that's still in play. It is Pre-Alpha.

 

Saying they focus more on one thing than the other isn't the same as saying there will be absolutely none of the other in the game.

 

We are not expecting to see all of those things in the game at this stage. And it is ok that they are focusing on certain aspects at different times. BUT we would like to hear what the plans are for those things.

 

I don't think SotA will ever operate like FF XIV and say "you must be level X to pick up this quest" because that kills immersion.

Ultima games traditionally opened up the whole world, but some areas were too tough for you to traverse at level 1. You couldn't just immediately clear every dungeon and get every item at level 1.

I imagine SotA will take the same approach.

 

Frodo? Didn't he get wacked a few times and need much assistance? No way he would have completed that quest alone. His lack of experience did not stop him from attempting the quest, but he would have quickly been dispatched had it not been for his companions. You should be able to undertake any quest or storyline, but being successful is a whole other matter.

 

i'm finding simple quests already that just involve messenger service along my travels . there's a non grind path i am sure. i like what i am seeing.

btw, i recall taking about 2 hours knocking people out and fireman carrying them to a nice quiet nook. everyone on the level in Thief 2. takes about 2 hours

The Hendoman