Why Open PvP with full Loot worked in UO.

It's also like professional athletes getting ready to take the court, or a band backstage waiting to start, or Black Friday shoppers waiting for doors to open, or any number of situations that don't involve referring to people as livestock. If this was the only time I'd seen this, I wouldn't have said anything, but almost everyone who comes to these forums to demand 1997 UO has a similar attitude. It's sickening. So no, I won't be apologizing for pointing it out, because frankly it's about time somebody did.

And if you don't want it to be about me, feel free to stop making demands of me. I'm just stating my opinion, same as you and Diminio.

 

That's fine. At least we now know what to expect.

 

Thank you Owain. This was my meaning, you can keep your tokens and all the snazzy loot, just give me excitement like only players themselves can create.

I played UO/EQ/WoW/Allods/EvE/Lotro//GW2/Rift/Neverwinter/Secret world and dabbled in a few others and most follow the same pattern. Remember I was one of those cattle too

I apologise if my post offended anyone, it certainly was not my intention.

 

I don't think you have anything to apologize for Diminio. You remark was harmless. You can't be held accountable the misinterpretation of another.

But it was kind of funny that he was accusing you of "dehumanizing and spitting on" other players, while he was dehumanizing and spitting on you for something you didn't even do.

 

Words have meanings. When you refer to people as livestock you dehumanize them. I mean literally, that is what you are doing. That is the plain meaning of those words.

And can you guys knock it off with the assumption that anyone who doesn't want 1997 UO rules must want WoW? I want a PVP game with rules that aren't stupid, which is exactly what UO's rules were. I don't blame the designers for that since they were treading new ground, but it is a fact. It was a terrible design that encouraged rampant griefing. It's been done better since then (see EVE for one) but no, anything that's not exactly like 1997 UO is for lesser people. And just by a wacky coincidence, almost everyone who comes to these forums to ask for that design can't make it 5 posts before they start insulting those horrible ******** untermenchen.

So I'll ask again: "Why do the pro-PK people insist on dehumanizing and spitting on everyone who doesn't share their gaming preferences? Do you honestly think that liking early UO makes you a superior person?" I know that Owain thinks so, as he hasn't been shy about it. To Owain, anyone who didn't absolutely love UO was just a weakling or a liar. And he's not the worst.

You don't have to apologize to me. Apologize to yourselves for making it obvious why full loot PVP is a bad idea. If your lot could show the tiniest amount of restraint in insulting everyone else, you might have actually gotten something close to what you want. But who is going to design an online game that is only enjoyable for jerks? Not anyone who wants a successful online game.

 

I did not assume anything, I merely stated my experience. And can you guys knock it off with the assumption that anyone who doesn't want 1997 UO rules must want WoW - that is your assumption certainly not mine. Why do the pro-PK people insist on dehumanizing and spitting on everyone who doesn't share their gaming preferences - evidence of this? Everyone is allowed to express their opinions, but the assumptions are all yours. You are reading too much into posts (certainly mine).

I hope LB and his team produce a game that you love with pvp and rules that you approve of.

 

Certainly.

People who don't want full loot open PVP are weak, cowardly, womanly, crybaby sheep. (As though being a woman was a bad thing.) People who don't think it was the best system ever are delusional liars.

This was a tiny fraction (especially since I limited each person to one quote), and keep in mind that most of the worst stuff got deleted. I can't quote anything from LordRex's demand thread because they're gone.

If you honestly didn't mean to sound like this, then I believe you, but understand why I would assume otherwise. Either way you don't owe me any apology; simply understand what you sound like when you call people cattle.

 

I don't agree either with a lot of what is spouted in those comments.

This article http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7540/Have-MMOs-Become-Too-Easy.html from mmorpg, written by one of the guys who worked on WoW is more what I was thinking. Where my analogy of me feeling like 'cattle' blindly following the 'herd', we all look the same have the same uber weapons/gear. But my point was you don't need any of that to create an exciting game and have your character feel unique.

If you feel inclined. Do have a read of it if you haven't already.

 

I wonder if you are aware that the game that dev is working on is a PvE game with optional, instanced PvP. And the open world PvP it plans to implement will be fought in a completely different map from the PvE one, just like in GW2.

Also, that game has about zero chance of full loot ever being implemented.

A game being easy or challenging has little to do with the existence, or not, of PvP or full looting.

 

No full loot?
Now your scaring me.
If there is a mode for pk's then I think it would include full loot.
Or else why even kill anyone?

 

It's funny, on the Dev+ forums they're talking about Romance and Intimacy, whilst here we argue in circles about killing each other.

It'd be nice if a Dev could just step in and post an update to move the debate on, hopefully to more fruitful discussions.

 

Playing war vs playing house.
And all I need is ten more dollars to join the dev forums.
hmmm
Na
give me war!

 

High end gear is awfully expensive in Firefall, so I truly doubt player looting would ever be implemented; gear having decay and eventually being destroyed was already generating so much chaos on the forums the devs are locking threads complaining left and right, having the possibility of outright losing a piece of gear would likely create a far larger outcry.

When you look at it, games with player looting are fairly rare - I can remember UO (apart from blessed and insured items), EVE, Darkfall, and Mortal Online, plus a bunch of tiny niche MMOs with even less players than Darkfall. Plus some MMORTS games, though they always have either ways to greatly minimize loses or generous payments for players that were raided.

 

I think the problem is with high end gear, if you can have someone make the gear you just lost then it's no big deal.
Either way at least have a choice to be on full loot or not.
Being in full loot mode means I should only see others in full loot mode.
I guess a problem does occur when pk's loot everything and then switch back to no loot mode.
So you will never have a chance of getting your stuff back.

 

When I linked that article, I didn't mean the bit about firefall at the bottom (although I didn't point that out). Up to that point I thought it was a good description of how easy and to their detriment mmo's have become.

 

Despite the fact the best gear in Firefall is crafted gear, it would be a HUGE deal, because getting the material for a full set of high end gear could take a week or more. Heck, the crafting alone would take over a day. So, unless material requirements and crafting times are sharply reduced - which is quite unlikely - don't expect to ever see player looting in Firefall.

The article is not about PvP or full loot, though. It's about how trying to make MMOs all inclusive has made the whole journey through the game shallow, too easy and fast.

Which is something I more or less agree; games like WoW have absolutely no challenge in the leveling content. Even single player games that target a very young audience often manage to have more challenge than MMO leveling content.

Having a meaningful journey does have downsides, though. The longer the journey, and the more meaningful the character progression while he undergoes the journey, the less space left for actually playing with other players, at least for those that prefer groups where everyone is capable of similar contributions. I, at least, find any group where there is a gap in the power level to not be as fun as it could be, to the point I typically disregard MMOs when thinking about games to play with friends.

 

I agree with a few people in here. I think that the full loot system worked well because the loot was just gm stuff therefor making it very easy to re-equip, plus not to mention the gear eventually breaks anyways. Also Full loot in PVP was good for the crafters because it provided a good market for equipment. Which to me made crafting just that much more valuable as a skill and viable as a very profitable income source.

 

Without full loot there is no real reason for crafters other than to supply 30,000 characters with a set of armor and say good day..so ok it breaks..what in 2-3 weeks of heavily playing? Is it viable to play a crafter with so little demand? Maybe you do it just because you enjoy crafting chairs/tables/benches and an occasional set of armor..

Crafters at the Brit forge made Millions! Selling armor for 5-25k based off ingots.."MILLIONS" why because it was in demand..any crafter that doesn't want full loot isn't a crafter I'd say! Full loot makes you tons of gold! And with the implementation of a single character it'll be even easier for a specific crafter based character to make that gold. If for some reason they go with semi full loot or no full loot over the full looting aspect..it will most definetly hurt the crafting profession as a whole and noone else..I'll kill or die with my same set of armor till it breaks.."no big deal"

 

I also think it is a question of player hability Vs Loot value... I player uo for many years and I know that some items really did make a change, but they would never win a battle by themselves.. this makes all difference..

 

I belong to the players , who love challenges. And i love the feel of danger and excitement if i go on a adventure. If you do not implement any risk or penalty for playing stupid or unwise or careless a game ends up being totally based on the good story to keep me going. Back at UO i never wanted to be a PK myself. But i missed them alot after removing them. No more preperation or plan i had to make for my road when i wanteg to go for mining. No more stealth skill. No more happy feeling after escaping a pk into the city. No more extra armour, weapons food potions i had to store in my house. No more helping other players against pk. No more slowly approaching a chest. No more locking your house door. No more traps to protect my treasure. All keep saying what improvement no pk is for a game. I think i should sum up also how much you loose if you babysit us all without pk. And i am a player who never wanted to be one!