Guilds

This topic seems to be very famous in the Dev+ room, but since I don't have access to it, I cannot evaluate if my ideas have been already posted/shout or not.
So here I will put all my thoughts and designs Guild-related, and basically what I would like to be implemented.
Let's start pointing the fact that this game has a huge nice community, something that is very difficult to find elsewhere (not the fact that is huge, but nice), everybody are enthusiastic and working hard to make this game better, shaping and molding it in different ways and levels. In game, the best way to relate as community member, is to be part of guild: it increases bonds and enhance the game experience through friends. So how this be even more a good choice, without interfering too much with the solo players such that the bonus received to being part of a guild are not strong enough to force ppl in joining guilds even if they want to stay 'solo' players? The following is my idea.


Guild levels, is a concept already know from some other MMO or browser games. In here, the guild level might represent the fame of a guild and also give slight bonus to the ppl that joins a guild, as well as cosmetic adds.

Levels can be a lot, but we can stick with 15 and add more ideas later (keeping the idea of the bonus has to be slight and surely not PVP oriented) to obtain 'guild experience' that is used to earn guild levels, people in the guild need to solve weekly/daily/monthly quests.
Those quests has to be related to the aspects of the game, which are: exploration and PVE, crafting/resource gathering and PVP.
Quest will be like:
- Collect x materials and create y items for the crafting quest
- Kill x persons for pvp quest
- Kill x creatures and y other creatures, or collect j items from k creature

Those quests changes in number and type according with guild level, a guild level 1 for instance needs to kill 50 skeletons for pve quest, a guild level 10 would be 100 fighter liches, 100 mage liches and 100 archer liches.
Every member contribute in the quest guild after the leader accept the guild quest, so every monster of the quest killed by a guild member will count for the quest. All the quest gives a certain amount of experience that might be enough for the guild to level up.

While leveling the guild can obtain bonus and objects, I though firstly that this could be chosen by the Leaders, according with the necessity, like in the skill tree, but then i figured out that was better to make the same evolution for every type of guild. Even if the idea of 'skill points for guilds' is intriguing, and so make guilds that spent points in enhancing the crafting bonus part, or pvp bonus part, or pve bonus part, this might be too unbalanced toward solo players and the thoughts stated before. So in this '15' levels all the guilds takes the same bonus in the same way. Fair and just.
I will introduce some concepts, that will be explained below, after the levels.


Bonus example for every level:

Level 1
The guild is created,
- has a name and a tag under the players
- can allow 50 player max
- and 3 ranks (leader, officer, member).

Level 2
- Increase the gold coins taken from monster of 3%

Level 3
- The guild can ask to be allied to other guilds but cannot create an alliance.
- They will be able to join the alliance channel and use (or not) the alliance tag

Level 4
- A guild vault is added, it will contains money
- A tax window is added to the GUI, so the leader can decide the % and amount of taxes inside the guild
The monthly tax can be set from 100 to 5000 coins, while the tax percentage can be from 1 to max 25%. The first one is a fixed tax that has to be payed during the current month whenerver the player wants, while the second one affects the money drop of the chars, which means that if the tax is maximum (25%) and i drop 100 gold coins from a kobold, only 75 goes in my pocket and 25 goes in the guild valut, If I am in party, and my share is only 10 gold, then 2 of them goes in the vault. The money increases also with the monthly taxes, the guild leader or whichever has the right, can see who didn't pay the previous month, for those persons, the amount of money of the next month will be sum of the previous + current. Not paying the month MIGHT make the guild member to lose some of their guild bonus.

Level 5
- The guild can allow 100 members
- The guild leader has 3 more ranks: Senior officer, Senior Member and Recruit
- The guild leader can declare war and peace to other guilds
- Guild members can decide to show the guild tag or not.

Level 6
- The guild vault now can contains also a fixed amount of item slots, like a bank, every following slot or slot pages can be bought with the guild founds.

Level 7
- The time as a ghost after being killed is reduced of 25%

Level 8
- The Guild Leader can form alliances, proposing the alliance name to another guild leader as soon as the alliance is created, will be only possible to leave the alliance and ofc not form more. Guild leaders of the alliance can ask other guild leaders to join and will happens what follows:
The guild asked is already part of an alliance, so the only options available will be "refuse" or "accept and leave previous alliance" In this way, people that wants to be part of an alliance in secret can simply refuse and give their 'whatever' motivations (after all u can hide the alliance tag).

Level 9
- There is a slight chance (5, 10, 25% programmer issue) to gather 1 more resource from every source while harvesting


Level 10
The guild can allow 250 players, the guild can choose a UNIQUE combination of symbol/logo and 2 colors that can be applied to shields and cloaks in order to always show and distinguish from others.

Level 11
The guild can have banners, this is a new interesting concept that will introduce the role of the flag bearer/carrier
2 banners are avaialable:
- Banner of Healing
- Banner of Energy


Level 12
- The sickness time after being killed is reduced of 25%
- Added banner of power
- Added banner of slaying

Level 13
- Banner duration increased 50%
- Banner radious increased of 15 meters
- Added banner of Fortitude
- Added banner of Intelligence
- Added banner of Agility

Level 14
- Added banner of recall
- Added banner of Resurrection

Level 15
- The guild can allow 500 players
- There is no limit on ranks, the guild leader can make he can also chose privs
- Banner radious increased of 30 meters
- Banner duration increased of 100%

Concept of Alliance.
Alliance is a bond created by two or more guilds that pursue the same goals.
Be part of an alliance grants just 2 things, one more tag with the alliance name, and the access to the alliance channel which is used to better organize the alliance. Creating guilds is like having Italy, Germany, France....etc, they behave on their own, with their own rules, but together they form Europe, a bigger alliance, which is the same concept here. So why ppl should join alliances? Simply because they make the game more interesting: an alliance can declare war or peace to another alliance, or can create political problems when a guild that belong to an alliance is harrassed by another guild of the same alliance or of another one. How the people will deal with this?

-Q: how can u make this work?
-A: Simply, every guild leader with the right guild level can propose a war to an alliance, if every guild leader of the alliance accept the proposal, with at least the 76% of the consent, the alliance is officially in war with the other alliance.

-Q: Why 76%? Why only guild leader with a certain guild level? Are those random decision?
-A: Absolutely not, but is meant to be like that to avoid exploiting scenarios.
Only a certain guild level can grant the access to the alliance decisions, so that little guilds, or newborns, or not experienced enough will be not able to change the faith of such an important decision.
The 76% is beacuse the alliance will probably also take into account the 'protection' purpose....mind for instance if there are Crafting and or social only guilds, they might want to be part of the alliance in case they need protection from enemy guilds, because a big and strong alliance of guilds can discourage players in the attack of persons of such alliance, to avoid problems. Be in a social or crafting guild is good, but when u ask them to join a pvp fight, i don't think they will be very glad to accept....but still their opinion cannot overcome the whole alliance itself, So I imagine a big alliance of guilds with all the kinds of guils, some of them more pvp, some more pve, some just social, that works together to help each other, defend each other, and fight the threats.


Concept of Banners:
Since the creation of MMO a lot of kind of people joined them, and this persons have surely different set of skills, some of them are very good in playing games, some other instead just don't for various reasons. There is one more thing that i wanted to encompass in this concept, which is the new players: usually very weak compared to an experienced one. To all those kind of players i wanted to give a role that makes them part of the guild, aside of the feeling of being worthless, that's why i thought about banners.
Like in the big medieval wars, some of the soldier are demanded to be flag carriers, they don't really do much, just hold a flag, the symbol of the guild or whatever, with the purpose of inspiring the comrades and scary the enemy.
So a banner is basically an item that can be used in the slot, that allow the player to carry a big banner. Due to this, he cannot use offhands, his attack speed is halved and the fizzle chance is increased of 50%. Which means basically that cannot really fight, not in the first line at least.
The banners can be purchased only if the guild has the right level, and when used grants to the nearby guild members several kind of bonus.
The banners can be used for a limited amount of time, and have different effects, according with the following:

Banner of Healing:
Increase healt regeneration, duration 10 mins.

Banner of Mana:
Increase mana regeneration, duration 10 mins.

Banner of Power
Increase Str, Dex, Int of 10 points.

Banner of Slaying
Increase the damage of all source of 15%

Banner of Fortitude
Increase the maximum healt of 50

Banner of Intelligence
Increase the maximum mana of 30

Banner of Recall:
When used, instantly ask all the online guild members if they want to be recalled from *playername* in *place*
Duration: 1 min

Banner of Resurrection:
When used by a guild member, it immediately resurrect all the guild members withing the area with 10% life and mana, but without sickness.
Duration: Instant


I wanted to write more, but I guess it's a good start to have feedback about Prolly some concepts have been already said....but is ok. I wait ur feedback about this.

 

I like this idea quite a bit.

 

Honestly I'm not a fan of these ideas... The fame and power of a guild should come from said guild actually doing things and being a productive part of the community, rather than grinding out repeatable quests in exchange for mechanical bonuses.

If people want to make a guild and have it become a large, strong, recognizable organization, then they should actually do things that attract members, makes non-members take note of them, and have their fame spread the way it should, via word of mouth of the player base.

That, and that alone, should be the reward guilds seek.

 

I am not a huge fan of the leveling of guilds because ends up creating guilds without social value because many people will pick guilds based on level rather than the people in it. I would love to see a guild vault of some sort. It always happens that a new player comes in the guild for short term profits. I was in one guild where the leader suddenly cashed it out and disbanded it after a year or so, but I guess there is nothing that can be done for that one.

 

hah nice LB quote.

 

I definitely support the idea of Guild Leveling. Guild leveling encourages guilds to seek out new membership and maintain a strong membership in order to level up. To protect against guilds making maximum level then stagnating or a guild leader "selling" an upgraded guild, the guild level should slowly deteriorate if a certain number of members are not present and active.

I would encourage incorporating pledges into guild leveling. For instance a LOTM would have to be appointed as a "leader" of the very largest guild. Progress on down to the Lord level. This type of reward would encourage realistic game play for the "royalty" pledges and provide additional incentives for higher pledges.

Strong and effective leaders could encourage their guild members to donate so they can increase the size of their guild. In effective "royalty" could be just figureheads while the real guild leadership controls the organization behind closed doors.

Lots of intrigue possible and a method of increasing pledges.

In game gold should also be a method of increasing the guild size and level.

Overall great idea Anghelos, although I would encourage further development of the proposal.

 

No thanks.

A
You are giving way too much advantage to being in a guild vs not being in one.
B
There is no story, nor in game/world reason for any of this. Why would I resurrect faster because I join company X over company Y.
C
If the big, gets more perks, there is no reason to start new guilds, only to coup old ones. This leads to an elitist system of old guilds vs everyone else.
D
More loot from monsters because the guild you just joined is old?
Really?
E
Would be better to set up a pay gold for features system. It makes much more sense and would be a sink.
If the guild pays X gold per Y period of time, it gets "a guild vault".
If the guild pays X gold per Y period of time, it gets "guild ranks"
etc etc
That way each guild can decide on its own which features they pay for and which they don't.
Then I can select to join an expensive or a cheap guild and get the effects I pay for.
That way you can have guild which goes through glory days, loses members, has a bad period, only to rise again. With the feature set to follow suit.

 

Sorry but no no no no no. This looks and feels like its ripped out of the World of Warcraft playbook. I understand that it is a popular style for most modern MMORPG's.

Thinking back to the kickstarter again, the devs have something else in mind. The mention something like guild housing and being able to work toward getting a guild house, bank, tabbord, and shield in each town. Only one guild house can be in a town so there will be intense rivalry for competition. (going from memory here)

Spoon, I agree with you on almost every thing you said in your post.

 

Ofc should be best if you can add this sort of reward, but 'fame' that comes from the community cannot bring 'exp points'....i mean, unless a 'like' system like the facebook one is introduced inside the game to see how many ppl join a certain event and so make the guild bigger (which can also lead to exploits, btw), u cannot check this, and yet, u cannot put limit to ppl that instead wants to play the game in a more grinding way. Some ppl just want to be stronger and powerful, some other just seek other things, I guess the goal and challange is to find something that balance all the aspects good enough. I think this system can encompass both views.
This system already provide some interesting features and depth under the roleplay aspects, is only a matter of how the players wants to play with it. For instance, all the players that joined a guild have this tag under the head, but what if instead I want to be more a spy and now show my tag? that's just an example that I addressed.

Maybe you can state something about HOW u get exp for the guild, but what about the levels and all the concepts introduced?

Like before and mostly in this reply i feel that you want to enhance the roleplay aspect, which is good. But unless the game put a tag "Roleplay Only players" u will NEVER EVER have a fully RPG.
The game designers that makes RPGs are always troubled with the balance real life/roleplay/gameplay. Some choices are just for gameplay issue, like levels. As well as it can be finding more gold in monsters, or resurrect faster; plus i might find reasonable answer to all ur question, coz we are in fantasy world, and the only limit is our imagination.
I don't think I am giving a lot of power to guild members, there are no special items, no inner features that affects the fight (unless we talk about banners that are meant for bosses and very big fights).
Is really a big difference if I resurrect 20 seconds before or later?
is really different if instead of 5 gold I get 6?
Those are just gameplay issue, nothing that gives a real advantage.

This is the point, while to a single one there is no difference if he takes 1-2 gold more from monster, in a guild it may do the difference, coz the gold are meant to be shared for everyone, one person alone loses 1 gold, a guild of 300 members gain 300golds.
And you REALLY think that people will not make new guilds and decide to join an old one only for those few benefits? Probably even if a guild at lvl 15 was giving invulnerability ppl would make new guilds. U really understimate the human pride
Plus, even if it's not a veteran reward, guild that lives longer and has conquered a certain level, should keep it.

Your payment way is meant to be only for big guilds that might affords the more perks possible.
While with mine, slowly but steady all the guilds, even the smallest one, can reach the top, have their custom symbol, and such....slowly and steady.
Because a guild can chose to stay with few members and STILL get to the top, slowly, but can.
A guild that wants to stay with few member, might not be able to afford monthly payments.
At least, I think this

for the records, i am member of a small guild, and i like to be in a small guild, that select carefully each members instead of doing recruitment of everybody, but only the idea, to be with all my mates, all with our cloak with the same symbol and color, really excite me.... more than the other stuff

edit: I don't know how is doing WoW now....I abandoned it when Wotlk came out and I stop following news when they announced ninja pandas...

 

I see your point but I think the goal for my guild will be small also. I want quality over quantity. I think the guild should attract people that are like minded to you and have the same views as the game as you. I try to think in line with game mechanics and have it so where almost everything is handcrafted in the game, including guilds. People should join your guild for what it is not for what it has as perks.

 

I am also from a lil guild that recruit with an idea of quality instead of quantity, as I said:

So, yes, I think the same as you, but I want to achieve this in a different way.

 

I understand your point of view. I just am not sure how it jives with this game. It is a good topic though and it is worth discussing.

 

I'm not a fan of a limit to guild size based on levels. Some guilds will exceed some of those numbers of members before the launch of the game.
In fact everything tangible about the guild shouldn't be based upon levels. Keep it more title based, and external based. What I mean is don't give us bank space because we earned a level as a guild, and don't allow us more players based upon the level of the guild. Let the guild levels be more for prestige and for show.

The reason I say that is so that guilds don't get artificially hindered before the launch of the game, unless these things begin before Launch, and the guilds we create before launch remain after the official launch of the game. If pre-existing guilds (made up of founders) shouldn't be hindered from having all its members join day one after launch. (Now that I think of it we really should keep our guilds in tact after launch anyway).

 

i feel there needs to be more incentive to join a guild though, or there might just be a lot of guilds of two people, like uo often was.

1. having a bonus for active membership (not just loggers n banksitters, people who are gonna move around some) that gives you store credit, or a ventrilo account for the month on the house.

2. maybe an ever-changing npc vendor item discount (to discourage bots or Vr economy bubble causing specialization) for an active guild

 

Exactly, for ur first point, that's why i put a people limit in the guild, so that guild leaders will monitor the status of the active players and remove the non actives.

Now that u mention it, i also thought as a bouns a discount of price for items in all the vendors of like 15 or 20%, thx for reminding me that.

 

Just felt to add, I like idea of guild "levels"; many online games implemented this and it works well. It kind of makes being a GM or guild officer really mean something besides just being able to recruit/kick players, or post MOTD's, or something.

 

I'm not coming from a RP angle???
Only one of my points related and that was regarding consistency within the story. There is no reason for all of these perks, they can't be motivated from story, nor can they be motivated from game balance, nor will they promote good guild on guild competition.

Regarding gold.
You don't want the most organized to get more gold, you want them to spend more gold. You are adding faucets where we normally would want sinks.

Yes those perks upset gamebalance. Yes there is a massive difference if I consistently get 6g where the masses get only 5g.
That is a +20% gold faucet, for nothing you have earned but rather just because you have joined an elder guild.

Yes in a guild war in a PvP scene there is a massive difference if my side ressurrect 20sec faster consistently. It would force every min/max PvPr to be in one of the elder guilds to be competetive in guild wars.

Yes, those are real advantages, not just "gameplay".

No new guilds will be at a massive disadvantage when trying to recruit new members, becuase these elder guilds can just list all the perks you get for joining them.
Yes, you are right that there still will be new guilds due to human nature. But you are incorrect when you think that somehow makes up for the disparity.

If you really just want the pride thing. Then remove all perks that are affecting game balance. Just add a few more vanity items.

 

Unless you want the BMC to have 8 different guilds of 50 players each and force them to be level 1 when they start, I suggest there be no limit to guild size. Currenlty MGT stands at 150 members. I am assuming that the BMC has over 300, last I checked they had 327 according to Ezekiel. You may be surprised at how a guild can retain that small, friendly feel and continue to gain "like-minded" members.

I enjoy the thought of more features added to guild structuring and planning events as well as separate chest permissions for each tier of promotions in the guild hall. Leaders should have their own permissions on chests, Officers should have their own chests, and Members should have their own. However, limiting the amount of members that may be in a guild at launch may be the worst mistake. I'd recommend a change-up of some of the specifics in the OP, but that's just my 2cents.

 

Guild perks don't have to unfairly unbalance gameplay - that can be avoided if perks/buffs/whatever are carefully thought out. And even if there are some that could give one guild a PvE or PvP edge over another, that can be easily compensated for by

A.) Making perks temporary, and

B.) Extremely expensive (in gold, time, or both) to activate.

That said, I see no reason why a guild shouldn't be rewarded for exceptional activity/productivity by it's members. That's capitalism, baby!

 

Yeah, so I was thinking....
maybe we can propose that the money taken (the 3% more) goes directly in the bank vault. Pls remember that is 3%! which means that if i collect 100 gold, i will get 3 gold more -_-
The point of the BMC is quite troublesome.... I explained why i wanted to keep the number low and just progressive increasing, maybe some adds can be done during the way, but anyway doing the first levels in the guild should be very fast and easy, moreover if the u start with a guild full of members.

Anyway, since BMC are so big, there is another issue that is worth thinking, the guildhouse. I didn't talk about that, because i assumed players would buy an house and use it as a guildhouse....but grants access to 300+ members would be a real pain....So i think that an house can be upgraded to Guildhouse...i will reform my above post with some more stuff I have some ideas.