Magery System

Just wondering how everyone thinks the magery system should work?
Here are a few points I can think of, feel free to include more.

1. Storing Spells
The spell book like in UO works for me.
I guess it could be just filling in slots on a menu so you can cast them

2. Getting Spells
Seems to be a bit of debate on this one.
I'm good with using different methods.
a. crafting spells (Inscription)
b. finding spells
c. going to a class
d. doing a quest
In the end I think you should get a scroll for that spell.

3. Buying/Selling
Should players be able to buy/sell these spells?
Including both individual scrolls or full spell books?
I don't see why not, they still would need enough skill to cast them.

4. Using spells
I do expect to see reagents again
And of course using up mana

5. Bonus
I'm for some bonus skills.
UO had skills like Evaluating Intelligence, Meditation, Focus that would either make spells more powerful or make mana regeneration faster.
Also it was mentioned that your crafting skills might give a bonus to your magic.
So maybe if your a smith you might get a bonus on dammage to stone elementals or something.

6. Who can perform spells
Mages in UO were to powerful
The magic needs to be split up into different classes
wizard magician sorcerer conjurer clerics druids witches monks etc
Yea mabye only a couple classes at first but they should only get spells according to thier class.

I could see opening up new high level spells once you have learned all levels of spells in like 3 or 4 classes.
Kinda like an Archmage in Bards Tale.

 

Everything needs to be looked at in terms of what you're giving up. Why would I not want all of these things? How can things balance? Where are your weaknesses?

 

The first 4 class examples are almost synonyms of each other. Clerics and Monks are often more similar than needed. 'Witches' are just a female version of the first class.
A better way is to classify the different 'Schools' of magic.

Elemental magic followed by utility and higher level spells of many specialty spells would be typical magic of most mages.
Light magic applies to everything from Acolytes to Paladins.

Dark magic is often taken up mid to late game by mages looking for variety; something like a Dread Knight might use it too.
Druidic, or 'Nature' magic is usually synonymous and harmonious with Light magic, but has its own appeals.



Beyond Dark magic I saw someone request for necromancy. (✖╭╮✖) !

I'd like as much variety as possible with spells; maybe even things like hybrid class spells. I want magic to be fun.

 

I normally pay little attention to magic in general but on the subject I can't help but look back at all the different variations of magic systems in past Ultimas and what they mean to society.

Ultima 1-3 magic fell under either destruction magic or non-destruction/healing.. these were researched and established by the Cult of Runes and Cult of Truth respectively. There were no reagents but had words of power of a sort. They had some interesting area effect spells that were lost in other games.. such as a mass dispel or mass kill that worked on low level mobs.

Ultima 4 introduced modern Britannia magic we pretty much all know but you could experiment on some spells. Perhaps a certain spell could be done with few reagents for example and I think there may have been one or two spells you could discover by combining words of power. You also had to pre-mix your reagents.

Then there was rune magic from somewhere I forget.. but then also token magic from Savage Empire which I brought up in a dev chat awhile back and it went up on the board.

I got the impression that they were considering at the time a wide variety of styles for magic so I'm sure it'll be interesting.

 

Well, i woudn't be happy about a battle deck, you can only change outside a battle. But yes, a mage should have to be balanced. The Mana would be one of the things, clothings another. In many games you weren't able to wear large clothings and cast spells at the same time. So many balancing possibilities.

 

I like UO's basic magic system. It could use some expansion to it. Allow for more spells or schools of spells and leveling that school's skill level before learning more useful or damaging spells.

As for Armor, UO also had a type of fix for that too. Their was a spell failure rate with certain types of armor. It worked just fine there. Maybe escalate the spell failure rate with the complexity of the spell (skill level you are able to acquire the spell). That way lower level spells could still be used with armor with a moderate amount of reliability.

As easy as it was to just get spells as you leveled, i'm not a real fan of this. I do like the scrolls idea. Allow a vendor to sell basic scrolls for starter's and then either allow research or finding new spell scrolls. If they allow reagents like they did in UO, then it would allow for some trial and error researching of spells. hhmm....

 

Yes, indeed i actually think, that a spell should be learned. Getting them by leveling is not a good idea. But possible would be, that you can aswell reseach a spell if you are a good wizard. This would be a way to include new spells also.
For the leveling of the wizard skills, i think spells could fail if your level is to low, and if you meet the level they will only work with low effectivity as higher your level is, as stronger the spell would become.

 

What magic is this schwarzwolf that is making my eyes sting? Vision going blurry...

 

Thats no magic, thats yust the answer to KyJenn green cast in his post. ^^

 

I hope that traveling spells work a bit differently than how we've seen them in UO. Considering the size of the world we are going to see, travel spells akin to Recall and Gate are going to be invaluable. If these are locked behind one of the "schools" or "classes" of magery, we would see virtually all character types taking this school just to be able to move around the map with ease, just like we have in the past. This is going to limit every character build out there as everyone would need to allocate skillups towards utility magic. I hope we can find a better way to grant access to these spells besides pigeonholing builds around it.

 

Skyrim has a good but possible a to fast way. You have different schools and you can learn all of them. As more often you use the skill so better you become. So why not letting people learn all of them. But to master one, it would take time and possible would be, that you can forget something of it, if you are to high in everything. Donno, what the devs considering there.

 

A recall rune in UO was most useful to find vendors.
It would be hard to tell someone where your house is unless maybe there are street names and addresses.
Even then how long do you want to take to go find someones vendor.
It was much easier to recall or use a gate to go shopping.

 

I'm certainly up for a UO based system with reagents, mana and the requisite skills improving with use.

 

Spell weaving is always a very cool addition and should be looked at..

There needs to be essentials I think as most players who are predominantly mages would agree..casting cool downs and min maxing is a bit tedious and becomes quite boring..

Casting recovery time is much more simple..going back to UO..you could cast but there's a set amount of recovery time till you cast the "next" spell not that specific spell..so with that I'll use a few example

- Cursor Targeting is much more immersive, it's not a ok I've targeted this player/MOB now click hotkeys! The ability to cast the switch targets simultaneously but using your own brain power rather than a target cycling macro is what "Mage buffs"
Desire again..

- Reagents!!! Definetly..no more "easy mode" biggest mistake UO made! It's like not needing wood to craft a chair..just silly

- Pre-Cocked spells needs to be addressed..give a spell timer.
For example say you Pre-cast "Fireball" well that specific spell has a 3 second timer in which you must select a target or the spell will backfire and deal a percentage of damage to yourself.

-Spell Fizzling/ Movement
Interruptions of spells is key for strategic battles
Movement is drastically slowed or completely halting on beginning to cast

- Spellcasting Tiers
Black Magic- DPS Damage Based
White Magic- Healer Based
Light Magic- Player/Party Buffs
Dark Magic- Enemy De-Buffs
All of which take a level of expertise to conjur..

- Spellweaving..an interesting concept never done correctly
Once you've "Mastered" all tiers of magic you then get a 5th tier of Spellweaving where you could literally weave any combination of each tier
Must learn combo via recipe
Begin Weaving Magic..
Select Up to 3 Spells(based on weaving skill)
Wait out timer based on level of spell
Cast Weaved Spell


..a rough idea of how in depth casting could actually be..instead of based on a single casting profession you add many nooks and crannies to explore and give it a wider depth..gameplay wise

 

Something I've always seen as more of a story concept than a gaming concept is the existence of something like 'High Level Sorcery'. I don't know if it may be a level of complexity that may be too much for players or the dev team to handle, but hear me out, it wouldn't need any development until right at the end of the single player period anyway if we were to try something like this.

Lets say we get 6-10 like minded mage types together in a circle performing a ritual; as far the ritual gameplay goes it'd be something akin to a musical performance or crafting at its most efficient, players would have to synchronize their actions and movements to ensure success and boost the result. Mages and Cultists may chant, Light magic users might pray, the details of what the players do exactly would be in the hands of the devs. Things like summons, high level enchanting, or group buffs could result.

Another way this could take form is in the middle of battle, say 3 -5 mages line up in a vertical line and all cast the same 'fireball' spell in the same direction with the right timing to make a 'wall' of fire, and the high level sorcery system could actually turn those individual 'fireball' spells into a 'firewall' spell with better damage and aoe properties.

For single player experiences this could only come into play in specific story moments or by using companions, so the impact there would actually be pretty minor in my opinion; the real potential of it would really only come into play with online players trying to utilize it.

Maybe that's all too complicated for this project though, or at the very least it might be too soon to implement something like that in episode 1.
Thoughts?

 

Make sure we can cast spells in the hood please, ok thanks

 

I am personally always a fan of mana. So you can cast spells how you like, but if you short on mana, you have to wait until it regenerates.

 

I like where Cazador is going with weaving spells. I have always been disappointed with magic in games. With weapons there is usually plenty of selection, but with magic, a fireball is a fireball is a fireball. I would love to see it where magic can actually be customized to make it your own.
In movies and TV, a beginner mage reads a book, says a spell, uses a handful of reagents just to light a candle. An experienced mage walks into a room and every candle lights up.
As a player becomes stronger with magic, I would love to see a process where they can improve their spell casting ability - make a spell more powerful, last longer, use less mana, use fewer reagents, cover more area, etc., and the caster can focus on the particular attribute to improve. It would be even more awesome if the effect itself can be customized - I want my fireballs to be green instead of red, or use a crafting process to design a completely different spell.
I think being able to craft magic would open up a fascinating new economy where mages can create scrolls, potions, and new types of item enchantments.

 

I could see them making it so when you wanted to learn specific spells similar to emotes you'll have to find another player that has mastered the spell to teach it to you in addition to having scrolls you can attempt to learn the spells from if you're high enough level mage. This would add to the social aspect of the game and make leveling more interesting instead of just doing the same thing over and over again after getting a scroll.

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I really like those ideas along with Cazador's. It would be something special to see in game, and might actually entice me to play a mage, but then that is the problem. What will be done to the other combat skills to make them just as exciting? Say, a swordsman, he would have to get more than just better weapons. Otherwise, everyone will be leveling magic if its the only viable and fun combat skill.
As you said, a fireball is a fireball, but you do upgrade your staff/wand/spellbook, or whatever weapon has 'mage weapon' suffix on it in UO... Maybe certain weapons with "mage weapon"s could change the cosmetic effect of certain circles of magic. Or you could enchant and craft your weapons for cosmetic effects. Aha, this is kind of what you were talking about with crafting magic. I really like it.