Full loot PVP and stuff

I've just spent some time cleaning this thread up. Keep it civil and on topic please. Attacks on each other or aggression have no place on these forums. We can agree to disagree about things, just please treat each other with respect when doing so.

 

The issue with this boils down to the devs end up making two different games.

It would be better to actually do just that. Make SotA unsegregated. Then make a SotA PvP server that is 100% pure sand box. Remove the story elements. Because the devs will be designing a story that they need to protect from PvP on one server and expect PvP on another. Will that story interest people that care more about PvP than chatting with an NPC.

We run right back into the root of the problem. PvP covers everything. All content can be done as PvP. While zero content is needed for PvP. The zero content PvPer vs questing content PvP = same argument we have seen over and over. "How would you like it if some questing PvPer came in and tried to tell me how to PvP, I'm a pure PvPer, I don't quest."

 

I'm right there with you. (I've probably quoted you a few times with this one. over the last 2 years, lol) MOBs should loot. What they loot should be relevant to that MOB. It would be logical that those MOBs loot items that are native to the zone they inhabit.

 

Ill take a stab at this one... For me personally im sick and tired of the whole lure/bait aspect people put on this... where i will agree is this i truly believe the whole risk vs reward argument is a lie. I have no problems putting things in pvp zones that more or less cant be gotten any where else only and only if those items have no game value. ie decoration's, titles, and or what ever pixel crack that cant be used to enhance an avatar. why do i say this for several reasons. many non pvpers like a challenge and some risk. they don't like being umm (cant use the word i want to use here) ruthless stomped into the ground. I will agree a moderate increase in resources is fine but to go over board goes to the fears many old time uo players have where they can harvest unmolested where and blue(uo term) cant last 10 mins there

So i will ask you this.... why do you have a problem with resources being in pvp areas? why should not all areas of the game have resources... why is it to you or anyone can answer this that feels this way... do you have a problem with a little bribery to get people into other areas. their is 3 schools of play here. those that will go their cause they are looking to pk. those that are enticed by the rewards to take the chance.. and those that no matter what u put in there will never go there?

to limit what i will call candy here to get people into the pvp areas will detract from some peoples idea of having fun. they want that added risk. to me as long as the rewards are minimal in application or usage i could care less.

I truly want to know why people get so upset over a lure or candy in a zone that they will never go to no matter what is placed their. what does it matter if another play style gets something in the game. Just cause something gets in the game that u don't utilize does not make the game bad someone else might enjoy that. I personally find statements where people go i don't play that aspect of the game so it has no bearing in being in the game selfish. Me personally i want as much stuff as we can cram in it. i want people from all walks of life to go damn this is the game. when people start limiting what they believe should or should not be in the game all of a sudden we start restricting the pool of players we can get in the game.

The more people that play the game the more money port has to do things to make this game better and get other things online faster. Ill give you an example a very simple example... stretch goals... the more people buy this game and play it the closer the stretch goals will be met buy rule of averages. yet some people here want to limit content that doesn't apply to them thus by creating less of an attraction to gander the support of more players.

As a final note resources is a gathering skill. which is under crafting... so that makes it NOT a pve/pvm thing.

 

That is a valid point, and one that I overlooked. Like many I tend to view PVE as everything that isn't PVP, but as you point out that is not the case.
By all means, let the PVPers pause to pick flowers in their PVP zones, if that is their wish. The essential difference between PVP and PVE is, after all, whether you are battling a PC or an NPC, and your motivation in doing so.

Of course, that simple difference results in completely different point allocations and different allocation of player time in gaining different skills.
For example, rather than spending many hours honing my ability to survive combat against human players, I might have spent that time acquiring gathering and crafting skills (learning where I can accumulate the most cotton in the least time, for example, or discovering new crafting recipes by trial and error). After all, NPCs don't require anywhere near as much training to defeat, so I can allocate my time elsewhere. These skills are not transferable to combat, so there is no way that the typical PVE focussed player will be anything other than dead meat in a PVP scenario. That seems like a pretty good reason not to go there, and makes the idea of using resources as bait rather pointless. If I want that kind of excitement I can jump off a tall building.

Spoiler

So, if PVP players want to have resources in their exclusive PVP areas, then fine. Just make the same resources available in PVE areas, and we can all be happy.

A final thought: if there is any chance that a PVE player can be lured to play PVP, it will be because of the PVP, not because of some unique pretty flowers that they can pick in a PVP zone.

 

I completely agree with you any resource that is in a pvp area should be in a non pvp areas... so does the port management and they have said it time and time again their will be no resources unique to pvp zones. all resources that are in pvp zones will and can be found in other locations. only difference is that the ones in the pvp zones could be either more abundant or higher gathering odds.

Now since gathering is a skill that doesn't affect combat points unlike in uo and many other games. this is in its on category. the only competition for these points are in processing or production. this will allow a deeper affiliation to crafting by pvp players than ever before...

Might i also add....

the two top pvper's in this game right now ( at least by tournament standards) are as follows in alphabetical order

Athanil --- bears known as one of the top decorators in the game. one hell of a crafter you can probably ask him how to make just about anything

Net---- 4b also know as one of the top decorators in the game. also one hell of a crafter again probably ask him how to make just about anything.

this kinda shows blatantly that even if your good at pvp doesn't make you an evil pker or one who doesn't craft at all. besides what do you think people do stand around in mobs waiting on that lone person to stumble around into where they are at? alot of them grab resources while they wait many craft. to many people think wrongly that pvpers don't craft don't gather or refine as a whole. they get bad mouthed for it all the time. however i know many pve/pvm that don't like to craft at all and will buy every thing yet those players are never acused of any wrong doing. just cause you like one aspect of the game does not preclude you from liking any other part of the game.

 

Those rares are part of the offset for the cost of PvP. On a macroeconomic level (see the economy mega thread if needed) PvP does not produce anything. It only trades hand (looting) or is a loss (repair bills).

Those rares are in other zones, more abundant in the Shardfall.

The addition of the jobs board is counter productive to a lure for people that do not wish to go there.

I don't interpret rare resources and rare creatures in the Shardfall zones as a lure for non PvP. It's a lure for the PvPer. Why PvP in a Shardfall when you can just flag open PvP anywhere.

 

I can understand the offset of the cost of pvp argument. It would be useful in a game like UO where you had limited skills and had to choose whether to be a crafter, gatherer, or combat. You had a real hard time doing both. SotA is a bit different. Every PVP or PVE player can do crafting and gathering. They are not limited to just combat. So how can we ignore the fact that PVP can do everything a gatherer can do in the Shardfall?

 

I dont see it as exclusively a PVP area. I see it as an area in the game where pvp and full looting is possible.

I see the pvpers and npc creatures as obstacles. Though the player is much smarter and less predictable than the ai. Personally I like to try and avoid these obstacles instead of killing or being killed by them.

With either a npc or player opponent, it has to be worth the risk or I will go somewhere else that is easier.

In the end I think this is what the developers have to try and balance. Players looking to avoid conflict are going to need a chance to 'sneak' in and out of these areas somehow. One full loot pvp area with one entrance is not going to work. Because everyone will just hang at that one place waiting for people to enter. Unless it is just a pvp arena that they are going for here. Which I would see as a lost opportunity.

 

There are other areas that will have the rares and there are the jobs boards. If Shardfall is doing it's job then gathering those resources will not be easy, due to the concentration of PvPers. Specially with the announcement in this thread, you have to make it out of the zone or everything you gather is lootable.

 

Right. I understand that. If its going to be that hard for pvp then how possible will it be for pve?

 

That would be the balance. This is partly where the fear of being forced into PvP comes from.

Too easy to get those resources without going to Shardfall makes those resources less attractive to the PvPers. Less draw to the zone. Too hard to get the resources without going to Shardfall and the draw becomes strong. If the resource is a major economic control then forced PvP has been achieved.

I'd imagine that since Shardfall is a PvP area of interest that any rare resource in PvE zones would be along the same lines. Like sitting behind a dragon.

 

So do you consider the rare recouces to be a carrot for pve or just supplemental income for pvp?

 

It's a little bit of both. The gatherer can equate it to looting, like finding that great loot while PvM. Crafters have rare resources for more interesting crafting. So there is demand for the rare resources. Both PvE and PvP use that rare resource in the gear.

How the gatherer obtains the resource is up to them. The demand for the resource vs the supply must be considered. Because if the demand is very high and the supply is so low that the demand can not be, reasonably, met. Then the choice is no longer a choice.

The end result should be effort required to get the server to generate an item out of thin air is done at a controlled rate. The PvP factor of Shardfall is a control for this. The PvE control is not really known to us at this point.

 

I actually agree with the need for some provision for primarily PvP players to make their way through the exercise of their preferred play style. To force them to alter their preferred play style to maintain said playstyle would be just as offensive as forcing primarily Non-PvP players into PvP.

This provision, and reasoning was part of Chris's post on the subject.

Yes, primarily PvP players have the Capability of being a crafter/gatherer with the same character... but the only REAL currency in this fantasy world is Time, and to force players to spend Time doing something they'd rather not do to support what they'd Like to be doing is not appropriate.

 

I believe this is the fundamental purpose of the 5% zones. A place to purely PvP.


Zones that are all about PvP, have a penalty for failure and reward for success. Rare creatures and resources in Shardfalls and full loot in full loot zones.

 

if it was just all about pvp then they would not need extra rare resources in the zone. Chris specifically states the wants to draw sheep in for the wolves with this.

 

Ya, thats kind of what we are waiting for, the PvE control, or Justice system I like to call it. All we can do is speculate until
Chris gives us more info.

 

No, while he did say that, that's not the only thing he said. It is also to provide the PvP player with an income stream to offset the cost of PvP.

 

I understand that Rufus. But the rules are a bit different in this game as compared to some other games. I mentioned above that this would work better for games like UO that had limited skill points to use. In this scenario the pvp can be the gatherer crafter. They do not have to sell the resources, they can just use them. In addition, what has been the counter argument for large guilds dominating the scenes?