POT Choice to remove Single Player Online Mode

Kind of. Look, I don't speak for "all pvp", there are many kinds of PVP, some involve more or less risk.

What I'm focused on here is pvp that's not exploitable by single player online mode. You can't have people "single player" their way through PVP and expect the pvp to be meaningful.

Yes, in my POT that would be the case, and if my POT was the only place to get PVP then I think that would be a poor way to design this game. But my POT is far from the only place people can go to get PVP. They can go all over the place and get the type of PVP you're defending. Currently we can't go ANYWHERE and get the type of PVP that I want - unexploitable by single player online mode.

 

Thanks you, I appreciate everyone that wants single player online mode to have that too, just not in my POT. I understand that some people would rather have the option to single player their way through my POT and never see PVP, but that's not what I'm trying to build here.

 

Are you using exploit as a bad thing? Because SPO is an intended design. It's no more of an exploit than using a heal spell. Someone that doesn't want to use heal spells could call healing in combat exploiting healing.

The only way to get PvP to fall into what you are talking about is remove leveling all together. Some(most?) people will not go into PvP with a level or gear disparity. If that's the case, setting your POT to OPO only just pushes out anyone that is not at a competitive level and gearing.

Would it be more effective to remove anything SPO would find useful from your POT? Such as requiring all lot holders to keep their vendors and crafting station under lock and key, not accessible to anyone in SPO.

 

Wait a minute, so let me list the three sides:

(1) "You should not be safe anywhere and I should be able to fight you as I please, especially at your home"
(2) "I understand that there are safe zones, I just don't want this zone to be safe"
(3) "I don't want to PVP - But I also don't think you should PvP either so you can be safe."

That is basically the argument.

So if someone does want to PVP and live in danger, and occasionally fight other players to get some loot, what should they do? Hope that someone misclicks on a shardfall and enters in multiplayer mode? What if I want to kill some low level individual, and then help em out and show em the ropes?

 

You can have two mechanics working as designed and still exploit one to benefit yourself with the other. It happens all the time. It will happen even if we disable SPO for my POT.

Here's what you're missing. No one is going to go into a PVP area unless they're high enough level anyway. That doesn't change with what we're talking about. Sure, they will go in using SPO (now, as designed) but that's not helping my POT, in fact it's hurting it. Here's my choice, as I see it. I can allow everyone that wants to use SPO into my POT and get X amount of people in my POT (but only Y amount of people are in multiplayer mode) or I can have just the Y amount of people in my POT. Either way, there's only Y amount of people in my POT for multiplayer mode.

And what's bad is that by allowing SPO as an option, some of the Y will use it to exploit the system or just to take a break from multiplayer (in my POT) and both of these things are a bad thing for my POT. So if the choice is for me to have 100 people in my POT, but only 20 are actually in multiplayer PVP...then I just want the 20 in multiplayer PVP. It doesn't help me one bit to have the 80 sitting in single player mode not contributing in any (positive) way to my POT.

It would be marginally more effective, sure. But that's not the level of effectiveness I'm looking for. I need people to ask themselves "Doesn't Rats Nest sound interesting? Doesn't it sound like it might be fun?" And then weigh the risks for themselves and decide, "Yeah, I'll try it out". What I don't need is people saying "This is just easier and I don't risk anything. So I won't contribute to the POT socially just to avoid any risk." That hurts my design and my goals to have meaningful pvp. I'm not just trying to make a big arena here, I'm trying to set up an area where people can roleplay being in real danger where everyone is on the same playing field, and where no one gets a free ride.

 

Or what if you want to live in an environment where people have already accepted the risks of PVP and more meaningful lasting social interaction can be obtained. Where PVP is not a game of tag, but rather a reality of life.

Personally, if I'm going to be a hero or a villain, I'd like there to be a real reason for it. That's what I want in Rats Nest, a background that allows your actions to truly matter. I don't want my risk ala carte. I want my adventures to be notable because they deserve to be.

 

I salute you in your endeavors.
Sadly, I think you will lose because too many people want a risk-free environment, and will want to be in your particular environment.. free of risk.

 

I'm going to work hard to ensure that doesn't happen. If single player mode online is available for my town, I may have to look into other options. I don't think Rats Nest is worth having around if we can't find a way to make it the same level of risk for everyone.

 

I'mma skip all the rest of the post because we have gone there before (interesting topics none the less). The exploit topic could be interesting.

What I am really want to understand is why you believe SPO will be easier? SPO has no PvP. So all zones are equal as far as PvP goes. MOB difficulty sets the pace for easy to hard. So what in your POT is the area of concern. What they are in the zone. What's the reason someone fully leveled and geared going into SPO bothers you. Is there anything beyond PvP of interest to anyone in your POT?

If your answer is, OPO is my POT play style, I don't like SPO, that's not good enough.

What I am picking up is you want anyone that wishes to PvP to be full time OPO. Once flagged, you are there for the duration. This puts a choice, PvP or not PvP. A large barrier between the choice. A barrier up till this point they have made sure was not there.

SPO is not exploiting PvP it's turning off PvP till further notice.

What harm is there if someone opts out of PvP even in the confines of your POT? Will setting the POT OPO only stop them from opting out or will it place an unnecessary barrier. A barrier that could be more harmful to PvP than SPO.

 

The *only* issue that is actually an issue is being able to go into SPO, then switch back to OPO in the middle of the town. If that boots you back to the entrance/world map, then that resolves that issue.

Regardless of whether SPO is enabled, you are only getting the 20. You will only ever see the 20. The other 80 have no bearing on your game at all. You will not entice the 80 to come to your multiplayer version. And if a few of those 20 decide to switch for a bit... again, no bearing on your game at all. So... why are you arguing for this? Maybe you should be looking at Shards Online...

 

I think we've been around the block on this enough. See previous 8 pages.

You're picking it up wrong. I want people that go into Rats Nest to be PVP - period. The rest of the game is the rest of the game, they can do whatever they want, although I have plenty of ideas about that too (it's just another topic).

SPO is not PVP. You can't have both, either my POT is full PVP (which is what I want) or it's not and I'm not getting what I really wanted.

You keep asking the same questions over and over again. It's getting kind of close to trolling Ristra. Go back and look at how I respond to you and everyone else that keeps asking me this.

 

That's not true, you're ignoring all the other times I've talked about this, Browncoat Jayson. I don't want people using SPO to scout out my town. I don't want people using SPO to hang out in my town and not contribute to it socially. It's a multiplayer town BECAUSE it's PVP and you can't PVP in single player.

We don't know what will entice them over. I believe that some will come over to at least try it. I believe that I should have an opportunity to find out since it's my POT.

 

That's pretty much the end of it then. You are requesting full PvP instead of open PvP.

Not likely to happen, but good luck with it.

We keep going in circles because you never answer the question of why SPO harms your POT. You keep saying it harms PvP but that's a global issue they have stood their ground on.

 

How can Single Player Online have any positive impact on PVP? It can't, because you have to have playerS to have PVP.

So at it's base, SPO is not GOOD for PVP. But I've given several reasons why it's bad.

I'm not arguing for anything but the ability to have PVP in my POT. The POT isn't being made for SPO, it's being made for multiplayer only because it's a PVP town. It's not difficult to understand.

PVP needs people that want to be involved in PVP, it doesn't need people to play it in single player mode anymore than single player mode need people to show up and PVP in it.

I'm going to start asking why I can't multiplayer in Browncoat Jayson's single player mode. :/

 

I don't think It's down to the choice of what one player wants.
Its called Crowd funding so everyone else in that crowd should have the choice to do what they want.

 

What *exactly* do you think they are getting out of being able to look at your town? Are you going to be leaving books full of secrets lying in the streets?

Why? It will not affect how you play. They aren't getting the best part out of the POT, which is the social aspect. But that is on them.

Or FPO, or OPO with you on ignore, etc. And they are not PVPing, regardless. Again, it changes nothing about how you play, it only affects how they enjoy your town. Sure, it might annoy you, but what does it really hurt? Not PVP, because they won't. Not your economy, it actually improves it. Socially, perhaps, depending on what you offer, but all I've ever seen from you indicates that the only social aspect of the town will be PVP EVERYWHERE, so probably not.

 

Yes, I agree with that. So what type of City Layout do you think Rats Nest should have? What type of landscape? Do you think I should turn off PVP completely?

Oh wait, Rats Nest wasn't crowd funded, I paid for it. Maybe I should make those decisions, what do you think?

Wagram, it's one thing if I'm asking for all POTs to be done a certain way, but I'm not. I'm saying for Rats Nest I want single player mode turned off completely. Now where you think your rights for my POT begin and end? Because as far as I'm concerned you don't have any rights to my POT, and you don't have to visit there or interact with it if you don't want to. You're invited to, and everyone is welcome to, but just like I may not be interested in other people's POTs, you might not be interested in mine. That's ok, I believe that taking SPO out of the equation for my POT makes Rats Nest a better place than if we leave it turned on.

 

Funny enough, you can. If I log into SPO, you can /zone to me and be in my mode. Probably not intended, but its fun. Its how I fake FPO currently.

 

That's the model they have gone with.

And you decided that globally you can't win this fight so your attempting to strong arm it into POTs

Fundamentally you have an issue with SPO/FPO sharing worlds with OPO. The POT is your leverage because you want to rationalize it based on you paying real money for it.

 

People will have to show up to Rats Nest to find out! That's kind of the point!

I'm not trying to be mean about it here, Jayson. But seriously, that's the point.

I've explained it before. I believe there are SOME people that will choose to visit Rats Nest in multiplayer if single player is not available, and they just might find out they like it. I believe those people may never try it, or rarely go there in multiplayer mode if they have the crutch of using single player online.

Rats Nest should have the right to be exclusive to multiplayer, and that exclusivity, for some people, will be enough to give it a try (I believe).

Well I think /ignore should be removed for pvp the same as banning from POTs was. (But that's a different topic that I already have another thread started for).