2 years and waiting

~chuckles~
Did you read the Q4 Shedule and compare the missing features with the promised kickstarter goals? How should that miracle work out?

As for the thread topic, I never expected them to meet a specific date. I guessed that there would be a lot of people with a lot of 'fixed visions' and 'strong minds' considering what they wanted the game to be, given the legacy of it's developers (UO and Ultima 1-7). And indeed a lot of what was originally planned had to be reworked as @E n v y mentioned. That's rather time consuming, but it's better to just wait and get a game people expect, then having a lot of unhappy customers. I'm more than willing to wait as long as it takes them (as long as the money lasts).

@Sir Frank, it's perfectly fine not to tell people where you're working (I would neither!), but if you decide to be all secretive about the business, don't use it to reinforce your arguments either (no offence intended, just a friendly advice)

 

I think you mean to say 'some members of the community didn't like....' As others have commented, these forums represent a tiny fraction of the community and even of the forum participants an even smaller fraction represents most of the volume on the forums. So when the world map changes were pushed, it was no more than a dozen or so people pushing for a change that, as you note, probably took a lot of time. POTs were another were a relatively small handful of the players pushed for a feature that assuredly was very time-consuming to implement. I can see why someone who kickstarted for something that was supposed to be out awhile ago, and now sees something coming out much later, even if some say it's much better, would be very surprised and possibly disappointed.

I want to reiterate that this is not meant as a critique of the development team who I know are working crazy hard and try and make the best decisions they can with the data they have. I just was explaining why I think it's reasonable to someone to be surprised that the game isn't live yet.

 

Indeed. I knew in this case that any answer I might give would be dismissed as not applicable anyway.

 

If that applies to Sir Frank, then everyone's opinions, which are naturally derived from our life/work experiences, should be backed up by our personal resumes before being admitted into conversation. Thankfully, I don't think that's how things work.

 

There is a difference in perception. If I say 'I think this should work different' and make no further claims as to my experience on the sector, people perceive that as me simply not being aware of the difficulties and how professionals commonly handle these tasks.

If I say 'I think this should work different' and provide showcases of my work in that field, clearly displaying that I not only know what I'm talking about, but can even prove that it 'can be done' different (and better), then there's not much to argue.

If I say 'I think this should work different' and say that I know my way around in a similar enough topic to be comparable, but state neither the subject I'm working on, nor provide any showcase of my proficiency, the perception on the internet turns negative due to people's experience being burnt more often then not when trusting others.

I do not intend to dismiss Sir Franks claim or to give any possible estimate of his proficiency in software development, but he seemed sad that his 'courageous statement wasn't getting much love' (to play with the terms of virtues ). So I thought I might chip in and hint as to why that could happen (in my humble opinion). That said, I'm not going to comment any more on this, since it would derail the topic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep

Thanks Katrina for that link. Very informative. Now when I listen to B.O.C I sing Here comes the Creeper. Lol B-well everyone. "PEACE"

 

Hilarious...if only right?

 

I backed on day one of the Kickstarter, at the "First Responder" pledge ($25)

When R1 came out, I logged in, ran in a circle, and logged out. Mostly because I was sneaking online from my laptop during our household's D&D session. I wasn't following the game closely at this point.

After R7, I returned and looked at screenshots, watched videos from @TheMadHermit, read various threads on the forums, and decided to play R8. I made a point specifically to put the weekend on the calendar so that I wouldn't have other things come up.

I had an amazing time.
I saw the potential of this game.
I had returned home.

I then found out that pledges could be upgraded, and lamented that I had spent the last year not upgrading my pledge.

That was July, 2014.

I'm now over $3000 invested in this game, and I'm not done by a long shot. This is the most I've ever invested in a single game, and will probably be the only game I'll ever spend this kind of money in supporting.

I talk about this game as if it cured me of leprosy. It didn't...but that's largely due to the fact that I don't actually have leprosy.

What gets me are the folks who are 'waiting to play the game', or are 'waiting for the game to be playable'.

I'm playing the game right now. I'm having a blast, and making plans to have even more fun when future features make it into the game. Sure, others are very narrow-minded in the scope of what they expect from the game, and I feel sorry for them, not that they need nor want my pity.

I'm enjoying Shroud of the Avatar, and in the sixteen months since I started playing regularly, I never have had a moment where I thought "well geez, this game sucks now". Yes, I've had moments where things weren't optimal, but ultimately I know that Portalarium has an end goal for each item, system, and feature in the game. I'm content playing with the toys we have now, knowing that more toys are coming, and that some toys will have more things that they do later down the road.




TL;DR: My advice is to stop waiting and start playing. You won't be spoiling anything, and you'll get to meet all kinds of folks in the meantime, and create memories. Don't keep yourself away from having a good time on the off-chance that you won't.

 

Spoken like a true MMO fan!
Not at all like a story-driven RPG fan.

 

I am a solo player. True, nothing will be spoiled - because the game isn't there yet. Just like I wouldn't have been interested in playing Witcher with only a few towns and no story. (And even if some is there to play, I wouldn't want to start if I would have to start over later. That's like losing your saved game, one of the worst things ever, heh!)

 

You are correct.

If I were to consider SotA as a single player game, I would have only pledged in at the $25 mark, and then busied myself with other things until the game shipped.

Let's consider Underworld Ascendant, which is (as of this moment) a completely single-player game. They're about to launch their first playable prototype to the higher-investment backers. I'm interested in seeing what's there, but ultimately, if their ship date slides by a year or two due to various circumstances that were either unforeseen or inevitable, I'll be fine. That gives me more time to upgrade my computer, or focus on other things outside of the game development.

I am entitled to my opinion and outlook, just as everyone else.

I'm sorry that you are frustrated.

In the meantime, I personally appreciate all that you do for the SotA community. Your coins and medals are a true asset to the game, and I wouldn't want it to be otherwise.

Agreed. I had a corrupted save once due to an inquisitive dachshund who suddenly noticed that there was a wire going from my NES to the TV, and wondered what it tasted like.

The required wipes of the development cycle are a pain point for many people. It's less so with the in-game community, because many of us see it as a time of rebirth or renewal; the ability to go back and do something different this time, or walk a different path than before.

It's a totally fair choice to wait. I'm not discounting it as valid, especially in the single-player space. My initial response was very much geared towards the multi-player community.

 

@Sir Frank,

Some of favorite things about the single-player Ultimas had nothing to do with the story, though. I enjoyed exploring the world, taking in the environment, traveling, going out on adventures. Same thing for me in modern games like Witcher and Skyrim.

Lately, the game world has been evolving and becoming richer in every release. We have a starscape that changes with the seasons, we have weather, and the storminess of the water changes according to weather, which will matter for sea travel. We now have fish we can catch in the water, and there will soon be splashes when we go in. You'll come across a random encounter of horses galloping across the road, and eventually we'll be able to ride them. Another scene went in with does and stags. They're gradually putting in NPC schedules and idle animations, which will matter a lot to the story part of things. The new scenes, ie. Nightshade Pass, are fantastic, and there are fantastic creatures like trolls, dragons, and in the future, we'll see a lot more. A lot of the dungeons are great. Not only can we play instruments, but I can imagine NPC bards, that are part of the story, also playing instruments.

None of this is singularly MMO, to me. This is all what I expect from a rich single player game, and from an Ultima. A living world that you can love to explore and adventure in. Things I loved about U7 : seeing children play with their dogs in the fields, seeing the water rush in on the shore, shadows from clouds rolling in before the rain, hearing birds tweet in the meadows, harvesting pumpkins, watching the life in the city and the pubs as day grew into night. Things I loved about U6: Finding novel solutions to solving problems, delving into dungeons and the sewers. Things I loved about U5 : sailing across the ocean, traveling, camping, finding monsters to fight. And in many ways -- though there's still many places that fall short -- this game is already going above what I've seen in many games in the market, or at least, the ones I'm familiar with.

Anyway, I'm not going to comment much on the business side to this and whether the delay is acceptable. I'd only say, as a player and a fan of single-player MMOs, I'm impressed with a lot of the work they're getting done with each release.

 

I would like to gently point out that the world map is not an accurate unit of measurement for this argument. Changing the map from 2d to 3d did take a lot of work and development time, this is definitely true. But the motivation is opposite of what is being suggested here. There was an uproar about the world map for a very specific reason - it was something far more primitive, ugly, and less interactive than what was originally presented to the backers during kickstarter. I would therefore suggest that the delays surrounding the reworking of the map were actually caused by poor decisions from the studio early in the production pipeline.

 

Ok, I had to jump in on this thread because I think it's a great example of our community respectfully voicing their views and opinions.

Like @Spoon I skipped the on the Kickstarter because not being an IT/Tech guy I thought the deliverables being listed were impossible and despite my longing for another Ultima game or UO successor I just didn't think it was feasible. Then came an article I read a year ago (November 2014), interviewing Mr. Garriott about SOTA and I decided to take another look. Boy am I glad I did and boy am I pissed I waited. Everything in the Kickstarter seemed to be coming to reality. So I immediately signed up. Coming in at your basic $45 pledge I have now moved on to become a full blown Baron. Much like @Jack Knyfe, this will be the only game I ever support in this capacity and with this amount of dedication, but I have never regretted my decision.

Sure, there are moments when I get frustrated and take a little hiatus from SOTA (like my current Fallout 4 binge) but it keeps drawing me back because I love the people I have met here and the people I am going to meet. Like @Ravicus Domdred, @Bowen Bloodgood, @enderandrew and others, I am sometimes annoyed that there isn't more lore implemented yet in the game because this is the stuff I really nerd out on and love, but I begrudgingly understand the Devs may not want to release all of that yet during pre-alpha. So I take a breath, re-read Blade of the Avatar and head over to whatever new content is available to see what I can explore and discover!

I do empathize for those like @Sir Frank, who really bought into SOTA for the single player aspect of the game not the MMO. For you guys I can truly understand not wanting to wait any longer.

I guess, in the end for me, I love our community and all our opinions, backgrounds and stories. The varied aspects of life that we all come from and bring into the game. I love being part of the Phoenix Republic and the NBTT working with @Asclepius and @Lord Baldrith on different plays and podcasts. I love aggravating @Jack Knyfe in TS, but if I ever have a serious question (it's not often, mind you) he's the first to help! Or simply chatting away with @WrathPhoenix, @margaritte, @TheMadHermit and countless others; it's a wonderful time and moments that I truly treasure. So yeah, I wish there was a potential "rush delivery" option, but it's more important to me that they get it right than they rush it out the door. Like @Themo Lock said, each release has been getting better and better with greater content and polish. I think I can wait a little bit longer!

Thanks for listening!

 

@GimmeUOPlz,

What's the dev focus?

 

The Dev focus has been mostly on ideas and promises (alot of which as good long term) made after kickstarter. Ever expanding scope instead of fulfillment of original design goals. At a certain point they need to get a handle on what needs to be done now and save the extras for later episodes.

 

@GimmeUOPlz,

A lot of things have been coming over the last several releases in that were kickstarter goals or stretch goals met by player funding. What ideas/promises are you specifically talking about?

And what features are you describing as the ever expanding scope?

 

Not going to try and speak for everyone or summarize the entire thread when I was simply calling someone out on their inappropriate behavior. Reading this thread and other recent criticism will show you why people are upset and about what.

As far as ever expanding scope, that'd be every new idea and "stretch goal" that post dates the original kickstarter that we all bought into. There are tons of examples if you go read the original ks and then think about what is missing from that and what they've been working on lately.

 

Curious.. does that mean you don't have anything specific in mind? because that's kind of a non-answer. No one is asking for a comprehensive list.