Excited for final wipe but seems like a catch 22

The developers have been using a methodology they describe as Fast, Stable, then Fun.

If I didn't know for a long time now that they planned it this way from the beginning, I too would be worried. But they've been very consistent about how they were going to build this game. They've followed a method based on their experience (which is considerable). No, they're not perfect, and no this isn't magic. But we're not launching the game yet, we're just turning on persistence and having the land rush. There's a difference despite what internet trolls try to say.

 

I just want to clarify the intent of this post was expressing an opinion on the current state of the game, and the fact final wipes are being announced as we rapidly approach a potential release date. I am curious to how the rest of the SOTA community feels as well. I follow these forums pretty frequently and it seems that anytime someone posts an opinion other than the game is incredible, ground breaking, and the next big thing is automatically likened to an internet troll.(most by those with heavy financial investments into the game) Some members on this forum throw that term around more than others. But as a future consumer of the product im simply stating how i feel, and to be honest im glad i didn't jump into an expensive pledge. A few hundred bucks is likened to a dinner tab at a decent restaurant so no losses on my end. I think there are awesome concepts thrown around but for the amount of $$ and time put into SOTA at the moment cant say im impressed with the current game, but i do hope that over the course of several releases things will start looking more like the game we were all looking forward to.

As other posters have stated i have played Pre-alpha forward on games, and even though you could see a lot of work needed to be done there was something that kept you testing/playing and having fun. In just under 4 months im no longer having fun. Don't get me wrong though, ill still jump in here and there as changes are made, and hope to find myself pleasantly surprised in the near future.

 

STOP!

Thank you for your generous contribution and helping to bring this game to life!

Have a great day good sir!

 

Congrats on the POT. I hope your investment rewards you later down the road.

 

I'm grateful that the developers have chosen to go with a final wipe myself as the game has fallen short of it's expected release date. If they choose to release the game now as is it would be a disaster, however by switching to final wipe and early release I'll be able to enjoy what features the game already has to offer.

I never played UO however my understanding is the game has something like 8 or 9 expansions and over its life has received many updates to improve the game and enrich the content. SOTA is the very first release of a new IP from RG and as such will never be able to hold up when compared to UO as it doesn't have the luxury of the many years of development that has been given to UO. The way I see it is comparing the two is like comparing version 0.8 of Shroud of the Avatar to Ultima Online version 8.1, however provided the game is financially viable and the developers are willing the game has the capability of being the next best thing after UO.

One of my colleges that I work with who used to play UO advised what he felt made UO a great game and from what I've seen SOTA has many of these features that appeal to me and I think are necessary in making an enjoyable world. SOTA still has some big hurdles to overcome and some of the decisions Portalarium have made have raised a few eye brows, but after the final wipe I think the world will start to come alive with players setting up shops, leveling their characters along with the usual RPG elements that occur in a game like this. This is probably what I'm looking forward to the most, the world coming alive as players don't have to fear another wipe is just around the corner.

Final wipe isn't final state and most people have become accustomed now with the idea of an "early access" and know what to expect. Just look at ARK despite being in Early Access this game has been a huge success and this like many other games of the nature have set a bar for player expectations. I didn't invest money into this game hoping to get a return? I choose to financially support the games development and have both loved and hated following this game. Following this game is a hobby of mine and you take the good with the bad when being involved with something that is being designed from the ground up. I have many memorable moments already with this game both good and bad but ultimately I'm happy with it or else I wouldn't still be here.

 

Korim, let's start with how my words were quoted. This is what you left out, I don't know why...It seems relevant to the conversation.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting you were a troll. Nor was I suggesting that people don't have a right to have concerns. But I was suggesting that I don't share those concerns, and I think the people that have those concerns are short sighted OR trolls. There are a lot of trolls out there, and a lot of short sighted people out there too. But again, let's call a spade a spade here. I don't know any more than you do if this game will be a success or not. If I look at the game in a silo today, it's obviously not ready for launch. Which is a good thing because it's not launching. But this is where I feel people are shortsighted. If the game isn't launching soon (and it's not) why get so concerned?

As a person that spends a lot of time here, I'm frustrated by the constant drip of "concerns" and "what if's" and "I have fears". I understand some of them, I share some of them. But what's the point exactly of some of the same people showing up day after day to explain or piggy back on to a thread and say "I'm concerned'" over and over again? How does that help the development of this game? I would argue it doesn't and in some cases (not you) I think it's intentional.

My reference to "internet trolls" was entirely pointed towards the common argument that "it doesn't matter what the devs call it, it's still a launch" and "they will be judged as if it's launched". To which I say, when haven't we been judged? And who in the history of gaming has ever not played a good game when it as good?

So I'm sorry if you feel I'm being a rose colored glasses fan boy. It's understandable if you feel that way, but it's not the case. I'm actually very well grounded in reality and I understand where we are and how far we have to go before this is a good game. But what I'm not going to do is spend any time pointing my finger at the game and saying "It can never be good" or "I'm concerned it will never be good." Because that's a waste of my time that I could be making a bug report, or giving feedback that might actually be something the developers could use. I don't mean the type of feedback that is common for the "I have concerns crowd" where someone says "If you only didn't screw up the game by putting in feature X 2 years ago!" and rehashing major decisions that can't possibly be changed this late in development. I mean feedback based on the actual game we're making now.

Ya know, I don't like the combat system. I don't like how long it takes to level in this game. But instead of making nonsensical posts about that, I've moved on. I look for things that I can impact today that will make this a better game. I encourage other people to do the same thing. Because while I'm sure the developers will always keep a pulse on the level of concern. I seriously doubt it has a positive impact on the completion of making a good game.

I hope that my position is more clear now.

 

I was never a fan of the later west brit bank sitting but i'm afraid i may never see a tenth of that many people in all of a city. :/

 

I think this is important too, Korim. And you may really appreciate this.

The reason I'm here in the forums so much is because I've been here since Release 1. I've played every release and the game is just not that fun now. This is in LARGE part because the game is not persistent. Do you know it takes me over 12 hours to build up my POT? Seriously, that's just the base ground level construction. And good god, to level in this game I have to play for like two months to make level 50 and that's with a 4x modifier! There are some people here that can do that in like a weekend, which only frustrates me more.

But the point is that I'm not here because I want to grind out levels in a test bed, I'm here for the virtual world and yes I'll be happy to post bug reports and give actionable feedback. I still do plenty of that, I just don't play as much as I would if I knew I wasn't going to have to do it all over again a few months later.

So for me, the final wipe is like the greatest thing I could dream of, especially when connected to the land rush. I can't wait to have neighbors and people living in my town and levels that don't go away and an economy. Yes of course I know this will be a bumpy ride, and sure I get that we're not going to be ready to launch the game. But this is crowd sourcing and my money is all in brother. So why would I try to burn that up being "concerned" all the time? What good is that going to do for me?

Look, I don't have money to throw away. Despite my pledge tier and my POT, I'm not a wealthy person. I just believe in the development team, and I know from all my years of experience in gaming, there's never going to be a game like this created by publishers looking to make an 8% return for their investors. If I want innovation (and I do), if I want game systems where the players choices matter (and I do), this is it. I either collaborate with the developers and work towards solutions, or I get out of this and get out of their way. But stand around griping all the time like some people on here (in this very thread). I don't get it. I don't understand why or what they think they're doing. If they can't have it their way then they're just going to try to stick to everyone? *shrugs*

 

I am hoping that all quests have been hidden from view pre-wipe. If this isn't the case and the game quest-wise remains the same as it is now, I will be having similar sentiments as the OP. Quests, quests and more quests is what makes an Ultima for me. To me UO is 1/10th of what an Ultima is, and 9/10th of that involves Quests, quests and quests. UO had zero quests, the pre-UO Ultimas had the best quests in the RPG business.

 

Never played any Ultima or UO game so I cannot compare to those but the closest memorable game I could compare SotA in my gaming experience would be Baldur's Gate. In it's current state SotA does not hold a candle to BG but SotA is getting better and better after every release even if I may not always like the direction that Portalarium takes.

Every game must stand on it's own merits even when it may be the 'spiritual successor' to an older game. I'm speculating that SorA will have a small to medium sized dedicated group of gamers when SotA reaches a state of Episode 1 final release launch to the general public. If the game continues to receive polish and updates continuously towards the release of future Episodes SotA will gain old and new gamers and perhaps truly become the 'spiritual successor' that is mentioned over and over.

For SotA to truly be the 'spiritual successor' to Ultimas or UO I'm guessing that SotA must not only become what they were and do it better but improve and expand on the spirit of those older games that so many people loved and still stand on it's own with it's own new inovations.

 

As much as i like what i see today, SOTA still needs a ton of work.
I am worried that people that try this game after final wipe and think it to be "ready", without any knowledge of what state it is in or any desire to read any background info or forum (the majority), will quit it fast. Worse, they will probably tell their friends afterwards to not play it as well. Those players will be very hard if not impossible to get back.
Which begs the question how niche you want this game to be - at what level will it be unplayable due to too little revenue, too few players to keep others emerged.
So, as much as i understand that release 1 backers are done wiping all the time, there is only one opportunity to impress a possible new player, and july is way too early imo.

 

@Korim Rackham - I've got kind of fed up with the game a few times and part of the reason for me is the lack of persistence. I've limited play time and when I make the effort to build a character up to mediocre (as opposed to totally n00bish) skill and equipment, I get to play in that state for a few hours total before the next wipe. For me, that will definitely change following the final wipe: I'll still only be able to play properly from time to time, but I'll be able to pick up where I left off rather than starting over.

As a few people have already said, and a LOT of people still don't seem to have picked up on, final wipe is not final state/release/global launch etc. IIRC it's been stated the main quests will still need refining after the final wipe, not to mention all the smaller elements. The game will not be advertised as ready to jump in until the devs are happy that a wider audience will enjoy it. Making the world persistent just means the 'early access' backers can create a more significant in-game community/economy etc in the months before the floodgates are properly opened.

 

You realize no scripted quest is 1/10th as good as a player created quest? I rarely play single player games because the human element of online gaming is missing. I played a great deal of AD&D in my younger years. Creativity, ingenuity, unpredictability are what make human content so enjoyable. No single player game has those elements. Every computer driven quest is a simple remake of those same tired old quests of every computer game ever made since Ultima.

The best quests come from your OWN mind.

 

UO has quests. It is time to update your UO analogy. In 17+ years of existence they never added quests? Bull. UO has lots of quests, my rune library on Lake Austin has books filled with the starting points of most of them.

 

I am currently in the Closed Beta Test (CBT) of the "hot" new and beautiful MMO called Black Desert Online. CBT just opened up a few days ago after years of wait for the Western world (a Korean MMO).

I log in for the first time and my jaw drops due to the unbelievable graphics. The character creation module is unbelievable. The game has some 'great' features like auto run to your next quest, specific classes, beautiful modern graphics, nearly endless quests, huge community, the list goes on.

I'm in the game for about 3 hours running probably my 100th quest made level 12. While auto running to the next big white tower of light (quest objective) I realize this is the same tired old MMO mishmash of garbage we have been force fed since WoW. I found myself thinking about Shroud of the Avatar. I log out mid auto run.

I log into Shroud and spend a few hours organizing my house contents. I buy some necklaces to charm animals. I spend hours exploring and charming. I do some chatting with folks in Noble chat. I realize Shroud of the Avatar is the best MMO I've played since UO or EQ and wish final wipe were tomorrow so the adventure could begin for real.

Shroud isn't a game for everyone. Some will like the mindless repetitive quests with pretty lights. That's fine. Some like a McDonald's hamburger and some like a great local Indian Chicken Vindaloo. Both have their place. The Vindaloo takes time to both prepare and to eat. I'm thankful our chefs are giving us our first course of Roti with more to follow. While I really want the Vindaloo, I'm happy to at least start eating by July 2016.

 

Dont miss the shooter jennings party. There will be tons of folks.

 

I'll be there, and I don't go to anything.

 

I won't say I'm not scared that the game will flop every game has that possibility. I have seen and been involved with a few games that were amazing the concept was good the fun was there but, then it became stagnant and abandoned how I really don't know. I really want to believe in this game I invested up to knight hood, this was a scary thing as I could have spent that money else where. I have a lot of faith in this game the community has been amazing (I personally have never been this involved in a game where I go on the forums this is new territory for me)

one thing I have mentally done is draw a line in my past of Ultima Online and this future of Shroud of the Avatar. They said a "spiritual successor" to Ultima Online but, I'll be honest that is not what I want, I want a new experience, the things that happened to "us" in our circle of friends was irreplaceable and I do miss features of Ultima Online, but that was where it needed to stay (oh 800x600 resolution how I miss thee and your pixelated sexy self) in the past. Shroud of the avatar is a chance to have all of the glory days with new and old friends that is the world I put my money in to not "Ultima online 2: 3D 2.0. This is the simple part of it all SOTA is new its developing yes at times it looks like it will not get any where but, I saw how this game looked at all staged of development, I can see that they are taking in to account the players "opinions" but, even though I am not a developer, as a developer its got to be hella scary to bring out a game that has a very VERY critical fan base as the moment you don't do this or you change that for the better of the future or to test out how this will make the game feel, some are immediate to jump on it and call it out as "well that's not like it was in UO. . . ".

I don't want people to take anything I said as "I blame you and you and you and by the way its your fault. . ." I just think as a "spiritual successor" it should make you think of the past but, not dredge it up or try to emulate it at all. This is a new game made by developers that have actually been listening to us there are things that need to be emphasized on and things that need polished and a bit of glue to hold it together but trying to make UO work in this day and age won't work ultima pre-age of "EA" was unforgiving and in the beginning all I wanted was to be able to kill that damnable mongbat outside moonglow without dying or being killed by a passing Red.

I think I have rambled my nonsense long enough, give the game some time I think it will be what you want not every thing you want but, close and done with love.

p.s. sorry I got off track there

 

this is everything I wanted to say and more thank you,

 

And round and round we go....same arguments different thread.