Camouflage

Making the Camouflage skill a level 40 requirement for Silent Movement does not add anything to the game. It promotes standing still and mindlessly grinding.

There is no natural way of leveling the skill up and that's because Camouflage has no practical uses. The only time you'd use it is if Silent Movement is on cooldown or if that glyph wasn't drawn yet. What do you expect? It's a "stand still and do nothing" skill!

"stand still and wait for a patrol to spot you!"
"stand still and try to use distract to increase your chances of being spotted!"

So you grind grind grind until you can actually "move on"...

There is nothing fun about it. It wasn't fun when the level requirement for Silent Movement was 20 and it sure as hell not improved by increasing it to level 40. All it does is delay the part where I'm supposed to have fun sneaking around.

That's all it does! It's been doing nothing since you guys put subterfuge skills in the game.

It does not belong in the game... and it's annoying to keep saying the same thing at every release without so much hearing from a dev on the subject. Hell, it's not like you guys seem to care about answering the questions during hangouts and postmortem. What's up with that?

If you're so convinced that it's a cool aspect of the subterfuge tree (it isn't), why not make it a high-end skill that's more along the lines of setting up an ambush Rambo style? You've tried sneaking around, but this is actually about covering yourself in mud or leaves. Welcome to the next level of stealth! You know, when you've actually mastered the part about sneaking around, now you can make yourself even harder to spot (despite lighting)... with a longer casting time, maybe?

Everybody gets to swing swords, fling spells, single-target and/or AoE... and here I am standing in a corner waiting for the day that I can finally MOVE.

Forget the numbers, it is mechanically broken!

 

Well said, i couldn't agree more. I see this problem in other skill trees as well. Hope they will seriously reconsider the placement of some skills in the skill trees in the future.

 

this will be the first online game where i dont play a stealther... yet. ive leveled up in the whole tree in prior releases, and agree that right now, you cant really get much out of a stealther class. im sure it will be revised greatly in the future, so until then im learning other skills. im sure by the time the game is ready for a real launch, subterfuge skills will be more relevant and interwoven into the game experience. heck its only even this patch that NPCs care that youre stealing, but it may be a few more patches yet until the guards actually come after you.

btw, camouflage is the ambush rambo style skill... its just not very relevant at all in the current iteration of the SOTA gameworld and quests. i totally agree that it also doesnt have much relevance to sneaking around invis, which is also in dire need of being made relevant.

 

Please add the other one too - forgot what it's called but can't look it up in game (not home) but was similar to this in moon magic.

 

I get what you're saying but, because it a pre-requisite for sneaking around, it just feels like "baby's first stealth"... with no pay-off. If it was more powerful from the get-go and further down the tree, at least then it would be more of a "Oh crap Oh crap! Someone's coming! Hide!" skill.

Personally, I'd just replace it with something completely different.

What? Vanish? I'm not familiar with Moon magic but doesn't that have the advantage of going invisible while in combat?

 

So looking at it from home now, both Camouflage and Vanish lvl 20 and movement cancelled. Hidden while standing still for Vanish, Stealth when not moving. Both you disappear when you use. Both movement one at 40 - magic moon one even requires reagents to booth.

 

Can you or can you not cast Vanish in combat? I'm asking because I really don't know. If not, then yes, it's just as bad as Camouflage. If it can, however, then I can sort of see some (limited) utility behind it.

 

I don't remember off the top of my head (I like running away too much ) - always thought it was like Camo for some reason though. Will try later when I get night vision up to 20 unless someone who knows might chime in before ?

 

So, got it at lvl 20. Went to test against skeletons.

With both Camo and Vanish. Got it engaged. Stopped and casted - both lets you level in combat - with him hitting you (they both leveled up), but neither of them let you disappear (like you would when it's successful). Ran around and got far enough to cast in time before he hit. Still no different. Got out of range and he wandered back home. Both cast and you disappear. So, yeah. They're kinda the same. All solo, don't think partying would do much difference in this case

 

I figured out a way to get to play as a stealther! Here are 10 easy steps:

1. Lock all your skills except for a melee weapon skill (I chose Blade), Dexterity and Camouflage.
2. Find and wield a two-handed weapon for big (practical) damage... you know... subtlety. Some can be found lying on the floor in Solace Bridge. Using a big weapon also means that your weapon skill won't drain too much XP.
3. Kill as many things as possible for adventure XP.
4. Stand in a corner, use all your remaining XP by spamming Camouflage.
5. Repeat step 3 and 4 until Camouflage is at level 40. Once Camouflage is at level 40, break loop and go to step 6.
6. Congratulations! Your melee skill is so high, you're practically a barbarian since you've done nothing but murder your way through!
7. Buy "Silent Movement", if you used a two-handed weapon, you should have plenty of gold because you didn't waste it all on potions. Killing faster makes you lose health less often. Alternatively, you could technically use Healing Touch which makes buying potions completely pointless.
8. Kill as many things as possible. This time, try sneaking towards your opponent.
9. Repeat step 8 until Silent Movement is either at level 40 or is high enough that you feel like you can finally sneak past hostiles.
10. Do the **** you wanted to do in the first place. Careful, if you skip too many hostiles, you won't accumulate enough adventure XP to continue leveling up your stealth skills... so make sure you kill a few things along the way you sneaky bastard.

 

I agree.

I prefer if Camouflage still lets you move, but at 25% movement speed or something.

Back in Ultima Underworld, there were Levitate and Fly spells. Levitate still allowed you to move but at a snail's pace. It was the poor man's version of Fly.

Similarly, Camouflage should be the poor man's version of Silent Movement.

 

"That's a Very Kool Plan! Thanks Gix!"

~Time Lord~

 

That's the way I have been using Camouflage at the moment. I just shoot things, and when my health is low. Dash away and using Camouflage until my health it back to normal and do it all over again. Until I run out of arrows.

Camouflage, will be more useful in the future when there is more PvP action. As you can act like a sentry to help your team take larger prey or to protect you control points.

 

One must stand before they can walk. I agree it is a pain, but it is pain that prevents mostly all but the dedicated from advancing.

 

I wouldn't agree with that part. You use it to hide from mobs or other players because your health is too low and you need to regen or for whatever other reason; say you want to let them pass without noticing you.

 

Right, but that's assuming that you're not already right in their path... and that's if they patrol far enough from their point of origin. To my knowledge, only Elves patrol far enough and they'd be high enough level to see through your pre-level 40 stealth.

As for PvP, that only works if they didn't spot you already. If you're using Camouflage, then that means you were already visible in the first place. And if they wanted you dead, they have plenty of ways to finish you off while you're standing still.

So I'm not convinced. Maaaaybe if I was an archer, I could see some benefits.

As a player who now has Silent Movement, I only use Camouflage when I need stealth and when Silent Movement is on cooldown (I don't use enough glyphs to build a deck yet).

Yeah, while everyone else is shooting fireballs and swinging battle-axes. Okay, I'll stand there in a corner and do nothing. That's not my idea of fun; hence why I want them to retool or remove the skill entirely.

 

I couldn't agree more. It should have some functional after using it to unlock

 

The current concept for playing a stealth-whatever truely is awkward and needs to be revised. If you not only wish to play a stealthy character, but also want really use two weapons (dualwielding) it's even more pain to get there. But for now the focus seems to be on other things...