Tricks and scams in the marketplace

We have a 1 hour show every Monday - Friday @ 12:00 CDT/NBT on NBNN
And we invite everyone to come speak their mind and talk to us about topics like this and others that broadcasts on the in game radios live as it happens.

Anytime anyone wants to stop by and have a discussion come talk to us

Laz

 

Count me in... You couldn't ask for a better setup topic...

Yea, I'll be there with bells on...

 

What will the bells be hanging from?

 

Whether or not someone buys this thing unknowingly or not isn't the point. You have some dirtbag knowingly changing the name of something to an item most people would like to have. This isn't any kind of RPing, it's scamming, pure and simple. Not sure how people are defending this like it's some slippery slope to having all of our freedoms taken away. Warn the guy to cut it out and take those down. If the same seller keeps putting them up, then do something about it. At that point, he's basically giving the powers that be the finger anyway so he's asking for it in my book. It's a game and we are the players. This guy isn't playing the game as a 'scoundrel', he's gaming the game and other players... and we're supposed to put the blame on a newbie who might not know any better because of 'caveat emptor'? Nah, that's bs.

Man, twice in this thread someone had to mention the whole 'carebears' ruined my perfect UO game with Trammel *waaaahh*... maybe you should hold on to those Kleenex. I can't believe people are still butthurt over that split which is what, 13 years ago at this point? I played since it opened and still have my active account. I go on now an then, poke around, it's kind of a historical piece at this point. I remember the time leading up to the split and the years after. There was no 'real game experience' back then. You had people running around being all sorts of a**hats to each other just because they could because you know, internet anonymity. The only people that miss it are the ones that had all their 'fun' taken away at the expense of others. They didn't care if everyone enjoyed the game. It was a mess. A year after the split, I would go into Felucca and the place would be a ghost town. Very telling... but people will tell you that the Felucca people left the game, that's all. Ok, but subscriptions were up in 2003 and Trammel was always busy. You can call people carebears all you want. The fact is, 'most' people don't want to be the source of 'fun' for some people with sociopathic tendencies.

 

Could you ad this Question in the NBNN topic.

What defines a Game for you.
Would you say virtual property and ingame wirth like SotA require real Laws like in the real world to protect them - leading to it not being able to be considered as a Game anymore.

Shroud if the Avatar claims to be about virtues - but bans playing a negative virtue or experiencing it?
Is that not counter the basic idea of Richards fundamental Game Structures.

Games in the 1980 vs 2016.
What Games would you consider more suitable to teach teenagers about "Human Nature" and "your own biundaries"

Is SotA 2016 a more dangerous game then UO 1998 in regards to scam, abuse options. Does it require more rules to make it enjoyable?

Should a game protect every player always from other players action.
Where do we draw the line?


Would consider joining. But German time and 2 kids.

 

Chess is all about destroying the other player. Very sociopathic in its core.
Still Millions love it.

Tennis! Man it is all about mentally crushing the opponent!

The enjoyment of being superior over the others skill is a basic concept of gaming.

Still many do not like Chess. They do not like being confronted with the reality if the abilities.
They prefer to play "Ludo" or "Monopoly" giving them the security to blaim luck.

Still all had been great games.


Same with UO Pre Trammel.


Just because more play one type of game does not mean: The Game is better.

I mean this is the Argument all are using for SotA currently defendind it!

"We are a niche Game"
"People who complain do not understand SotA"
"This is not a Game for everyone"


Maybe SotA and UO Pre Trammel had more in common then.

Based on your argument we should change SotA to appeal to the Mass -
because more Players means better Game?

Well tell that the Community saying we are Niche.

 

Tell ya a story...

I founded this guild in Felucca in 1998... I did business next to Covetous with noble and murderer alike. I owned a little 7x7 house and the only rules I had in that house was no spitting or fighting inside... And the nobles and the murders both respected it because they knew that if they didn't, the cheapest ingots, armor, weapons, and potion kegs for 20 screens would be their lose...

The point I'm trying to make is... It was hard to build up that business and reputation. I had to learn how to do business with nobles, henchmen, gank squads, weary travelers, miners, lumberjacks, thieves, and the worst of them all, ELVES!!!

Not all encounters were pleasant, and I was accosted on some occasions, but you know what? I learned to coexist. I learned to be cautious when caution was warranted, and my senses were keen to trouble and troublemakers... It wasn't easy to develop in that world, but that was the challenge.

I also still have an active account in UO as well, and I ran my business every day, serving my customers the best I could with respect and as a fair merchant, until SotA was kicked off in 2013. I ran my business with so much respect for my customers that they followed BMC over to SotA and became members themselves.

The free market of UO and the spirit of it is here. Will you get scammed? Damn right you will if your not cautious. Will you find notable crafters and merchants? Damn right you will if you are diligent in your search.

If you kill the risk, then you kill the challenge.

 

I have neither been Rewarded for or have I ever explioted anyone at any time here in game that I'm Aware of.

Voicing MY opinion and speaking out about topics like this for the public to know about Yes. If that's wrong oh well. I stand by everything I say

Tune in for the replay as I'll be more then happy to add that as part of the topic of discussion this week.

 

This story CANNOT be ignored in favour of bans for regular gameplay made possibly by regular game mechanics.

If the dev team is serious enough about this that they don't want people to be tricked in this way, then it's a UI problem, not a player problem.

 

If its a UI problem, then would it be exploitive to use in such a manner and not reported as a bug?

 

Don't you think that's what Portalarium wants to do? Why would they only target a niche audience if they are looking for longevity?

More players doesn't always equal a better game, no. Especially depending on what type of players you get. If you liked UO pre-Trammel, great. Everyone has their preferred playstyle. That was living in a world where you constantly looked over your shoulder. This is the 'risk' that people talk about that they say can only make the game 'challenging'. I disagree totally, but then, I like a different playstyle. A majority of people were sick of looking over their shoulders when they wanted to go out and do PvM stuff. How many times were people going to be fighting mobs only to have a PK (or three) show up to kill you and finish off the mobs you were fighting (and take all your stuff and the mobs) before they had enough? Hence, Trammel... and with it, people crying. PKs mostly, because their supply of sheep just ran dry and lord knows they don't like fighting other wolves. That's would be too close to fair fight.

So, they are going to try to appeal to the masses, yes. They aren't going to please everyone. There are always going to be people who want open PvP and anything less will make them say how 'unchallenging' the world is without 'risk', RAWR!... well, in their perspective, at least. I admire them trying to make a game with selective multiplayer that is aiming to please all playstyles but honestly, I think certain playstyles clash too much together. Will it be possible to find a middle ground? *shrugs* Don't know, I have my doubts but we'll see.

However, we're supposed to just 'deal with it' when it comes to obvious scamming? Don't think so. As others have said, it's especially bad because of how early we're seeing it. We're early access but the problem is persistence. Now all of the scams will 'stick' so you're going to see them come to light but I agree, it's too damn early for this nonsense. Nip it in the bud now or it'll just get worse. Will it happen after release? Yea, unfortunately. Some people are just cretins, it sucks. But it doesn't mean we have to put up with it right now. Expose this crud for what it is: someone hoping to make a profit for selling an ordinary bag as an artisan tool reward. Scam.

 

They can hope all they like... It's a free market...
I saw the bags... Never bought one, because I moused over it and saw that it was a small bag crafted by some fool instead of an Artisan Tool Reward...

If anybody needs help with these kind of purchases, come on over to Blackrock Cove and shop with the BMC, were all hooked on phonics over there and when we throw a bag out there for sale, we label it as a tobacco pouch, or a dime bag of gonja, or some crazy title like that for 300-500gp... We view it as selling intellectual property when we come up with off-the-wall names on our merch.

 

Haha, I like it.

 

Maybe it should be traded in for one of Darkstarr's Chaos pins.

 

Of course i think Portalarium wants this Game to appeal to the Mass.

But what was intresting is that the more the Game did show that it may not appeal to the Mass the way they design it - the Community responds turned into the intresting argument that this game was never ment to appeal to a Mass.

And you are correct - UO Pre Trammel and UO later are just different types of Games.

I also agree with you that i have my doubts with them being able to please all of our interesests and find a middle.
I do not admire them to create a Game to appeal to all - because i think it has shown that this concept has been counterproductive. It would have been better they would have focused on if or either of our Gaming Style.

Probably only a Solo Game , or only a MMO - and a clear communication on what "Group" they focus on. A clear message: This will not be a Pre Trammle Game. Right form the start.
As it was a noble try to appeal to all of us - i think that they created more complication then benefits for all of our different interests.



And no we are not supposed to "Deal" with the Scam. I agree with you that at its current State as there are no ingame Commuity options to punish them - only not to buy from them. But Ban right away? Not sure.
Then do not create such a mechanic?

For me this Topic only did open the Pandora about the overall direction about Risk/Reward in this GAme and "Freedom of Playstyle". It is far less Freedom then you think at second look. And Risk? What Risk do you truly have??

Never did feel any form of Risk when i played Shroud of the Avatar.
Getting lost in a Dungeon was the biggest Risk i did feel i remember.

Its fine - If that is what the Mass feels comftable with - lets dance then.

And to Game against other Players you need to provide options to interexchange with others. If i can´t rob a House or take anything away - then the other player does not need to think about protecting himself. ( One example)
If i can´t be a bad person - no need for good players finding protective measurments.

I mean why are you all running around in Armors in the NPC Towns? No need at all. No need for your Swords. No need for a Guard, no need for those protective Walls. Not even a Thief to worry about. Or to come to help if a Thief robs a NPC.
I mean why should we protect a NPC. He is not HUman.

 

I know a lot of people think that scams should be allowed. It's not my decision to make, and I will accept however Portalarium decides to handle them. I do want to go on record as saying that I think scamming has nothing to do with role-playing, since it is a player taking advantage of other players irl and in my mind scamming = griefing.

 

Doesn't happen very often but I support @Duke Ezekiel Cooper 100% on this.

My stance is that although I don't necessarily agree with people scamming, it is however part and parcel of a sandbox mmo. Ultimately it is very clear what is real and what is fake if people take the time to look at it........the thought of banning people is quite ridiculous but unfortunately pretty much the standard approach by Portalarium these days. If in doubt ban, then have crisis management when it comes back to bite.

 

As long as I can clearly see the difference between the real item and a renamed one I don't see a problem and I'm not bothered by it either. Just have to read.
I understand it is a scam and it is immoral as such, and I am generally strongly against such practices. However this is a game and this exact case of scam is a good example of acceptable in-game scumbagery (imo). It adds another layer of sandbox, all while it is super easy to notice and avoid.

 

All scams rely on someone doing something stupid. That doesn't make it okay to scam people. There's also no reason scamming has to be accepted just because the game is a sandbox MMO. There's no reason that Port can't have rules against this if they want, and there's no reason they wouldn't be able to enforce those rules to a reasonable degree, and no one is put at a disadvantage by following a rule like that even if someone were to get away with breaking the rule.

This isn't really something I care that much about one way or another, but these arguments are just ridiculous. If people are imaginative enough to think of this sort of thing as role playing, then they shouldn't be so uptight about people getting banned, because that's also role playing. Just like you should pay attention if you don't want to get scammed, you shouldn't try to scam people if you don't want to get banished from the kingdom.

 

DRAMA seems to bee the new normal on this forums with the CM allowing name and shame.
Wonderfull.
In all this drama i have got one question: did anybody actually buy all of those bags and is sure that there is no artisan tool inside?
You actually could put one into a bag and rename it. So actually before you post screens with the bags with names on them you should buy one and look inside.
Just saying.