"Player housing major part of game" (from 6 month demo)

While they continue on the One Player can have as many Plots as they can afford to buy this game will never get the support and dedicated players that were around in UO noone will expect to spend $40-$50 for a game and then if the housing side is the most important feature drop another $200 or to look for an Outside site & Ebay were they will be ripped off by a bunch of Gold farmers that got in early to make some money.
Im sure all those with multiple plots will plead they have only got them to help fund the game but reading most threads on here they do nothing but whine if the rules change and someone may get a pixilated extra for a few $'s less.
Lets see what happens when the Previews before launch have to say on this.

 

That is exactly my point. Thank you for picking up on that.

People play games to have fun. And if there is an element that a group will consider to be fun, but cannot participate in that element due to some stupid arbitrary decision that bars them from it simple because they were not quicker to start playing the game, or as shocking as some of us may find it, didn't even KNOW about it until right before the started playing, very few of them (if any) are going to hang around WAITING for at least a year for a chance to get in on the element. I am surprised that Richard Garriott doesn't understand this, considering the turn-over rate of most MMOs since Ultima Online's golden age... MOST players are only interested in the thrill of the moment, and when the thrill wears off, then they are off to the next game and don't look back. Decisions like this make it really easy for people to not want to devote themselves to a game.

Oh, and just because UO had a housing limit does not excuse Portalarium. The limit to how many houses that could be placed in UO was a technical issue. The world map and adventure areas were one and the same in that game. There were no area transitions from an overworld to the actual adventure zones like this game will have. This game has an actual solution to the problem in the form of new buildable zones being added to the game and linked to potentially ANY hex on the world map. And theoretically speaking, there is no reason to believe that a single hex cannot have multiple zones associated with it. As I have pointed out elsewhere, there is no 1:1 scaling between the size of the hex and the size of the adventure zone associated with it. It could be a sprawling city, or a small run-down shack at the top of a hill.. So it is not unfair to think that any zone of any size could be associated with any hex, with the only arbitrary decision by the devs being "this is where we'll put it"

And how large is the overworld going to be? And who is to say that new continents cannot be added that are just as large, each with that many more potential areas to explore and settle in.

Remember, we are dealing with an arbitrary decision here, not so much the technical limitation we saw with UO and any other MMO since that has offered persistant housing... The solution to the housing limit problem AND the urban sprawl problem is right there in front of them almost by default. I admire them reaching back into the bygone age of gaming to make things less "we'll lead you by the nose and do everything for you". But technology has moved forward since then. They do not have to embrace the limits of the past and try to pass it off as a feature.

I say that when they see the lots all fill up in the default towns and cities, they should be obligated to open a new buildable zone. Where they put it on the world map is up to them. And if they want to limit what type of structures that can be placed there, to always keep a house in a city more prestigious, then fine by me. Just so there is always an option for players to build a house SOMEWHERE in the game without arbitrarily forcing players to wait almost a year or to pay real money or a massively inflated price in game money to players whose only concern with the housing system is to hold land for ransom and make money, real or virtual...

Yes, this is a game... As such, it needs to treat its players as equals.

 

After hemming and hawing about it, I spent the $120 and bought a plot of land. I played original UO for many years, as well as various free shards. Housing was always important and I realize that I want an in game home for a variety of reasons from storage, place to safely log out, decorating, etc. Perhaps over time Im sure they will add housing zones and everyone will have a piece of it. Perhaps those who donate early will have the only in village/town/city homes (until they get sold to people who didnt pre reg their money early) Housing will be availible Im very sure of it so I think I made a wise decision. Cant wait for the alpha to open, then beta then go live.

 

This is how Ultima Online worked and I never heard of anyone 'rage quitting' over not being able to get a house right away. The only people who may feel that are the instant gratification crowd which is not who is going to play this game...

 

In Ultima Online you couldn't buy a plot from a shop, it was finding a spot to place it that was difficult but you had the same chance as everyone else.
Its if you aren't prepared to pay £200 and so you lose out that will cause the rage.
It took me over a year to find a spot to place a house but I knew if I got there first it was mine, no one could outdo me and buy it from a shop.

 

I was actually a year late for Ultima online so my first 2 years included grinding tailoring and making friends. Once I found a nice guild they helped me learn the game. I don't know if they offered anything like this game does in the way of buying land and pledging for land, but probably not since it was pioneering this new playstyle. Same as this game is doing...re-pioneering a playstyle of non-instanced housing and huge character development, non-gear grinding, unlimited exploration etc...Getting a house, is just part of the journey for some people. Others may not care about a house at first and just work their characters.

When I was first playing UO, I wanted a house pretty badly. I didn't look harshly on the game because I couldn't get one. I mean, there was housing for sale on Ebay, I do remember those things...but I really wanted to place my own house. It was a goal I had set for myself. I found it part of the fun of the game. Perhaps people who are into playing a game to achieve these things will find this thrilling...I just don't think we're gonna see that huge rage...This game is kind of alone in how it's played making it quite exciting just in that fact...Housing is just a bonus to those of us who care about it.

 

I expect the biggest Majority of them care about an house that's what drew them to the game, many ex UO players, the difference with this and UO is that unless you have $200 for the land which is very limited you are being penalised and maybe offered a few for in game gold. 5000 land Plots would mean 80% can never get one so like me they would expect that all plots are only from in game gold, so theirs a fighting chance to get one.
This will only lead to Bad reports on social Media and in reviews.

 

@wagram If I remember correctly LB does not want a huge amount of people to have houses, I think he said during the campaign it was like 10% or less would own a house in episode 1. However after each expansion their will be many more property deeds for sale

 

The problem is that with World of Warcraft and almost every MMO since, the instant gratification crowd has grown to include the MAJORITY of MMO players. The industry has spent the past decade dumbing down the MMO genre, with each subsequent offering essentially catering to the growing instant gratification crowd. The development process for SOTA has been sustained by crowdsourced funding. When the game launches, it will rely on people who buy into whatever revenue methods portalarium will use to keep SOTA commercially viable. It's going to be about numbers, people. They are going to need X number of people spending a minimum of Y dollars per month to break even. God willing, they will have those numbers. But that is just to break even. If the game is not profitable, what then?

Being able to own a house in an MMO is a feather that grants the player to establish real roots in the game. They become a part of the game, strengthening the player community in a meaningful way that goes beyond earning a reputation as a skilled PvPer or being able to join the most successful raid guild. Both of those can be done by players who have a house, but neither of them grants players a sense of ownership of part of the world. And as has been said, housing has been used as a major selling point for this game. And trust me, if the box alludes to being able to own land and build houses, but does not make it clear (as in not relegated to the fine print, but directly part of the description) that the ability to own land is limited and may not be available at any given time, when players who want a house but cannot get one because of this ARBITRARY decision to limit housing, then shouts of false advertising will be thrown about, rage quitting will happen, and far fewer people will be playing the game than otherwise might have been. And we are not just talking about self-entitled whiners. We are talking about people who would be just as enthusiastic about this game as we are now. There will be bad press as a result. Now Bad Press may not be avoidable, as eventually someone is going to rant about something they don't like and the big gaming media websites will pick up on the complaints and run with them, because they need articles to write. However, as the housing limit is an arbitrary decision, they are inviting bad press.

The game can only launch once.

 

My Point is not that everyone should have a house but that they should not have to pay $200 to get one and that all housing land should be on sale for in game gold only so everyone as an equal chance to get what are available by playing the game.

There are numerous other vanity products that are not limited you can sell a million through the add store.

 

Then he needs to quit putting houses on the cash shop. He needs to relegate the amount of attention to player housing to 10% or less of what they cover. It's become a front and center attraction, and therefore it will be on the forefront of people's minds as they buy into the game.

Oh... and just to make it clear, when the game goes live, and the crapstorm hits these forums regarding housing, I will not hesitate to report any backer of this game who dares to post something along the lines of "Too bad for you, I got mine!"

That is not a threat. It's a promise.

 

I don't think we are trying to attract WoW mentality here...We want players who want a deep game full of fun. If housing is fun you can get a house..It doesn't cost $200 for everyone. You can play the game and get a house...weather you have to wait a year or can manage to get one with your hard work sooner is up to the player.

Yes they are selling housing on the site...'limited' housing. It will be gone soon. It's a way to back the game...Hopefully people don't miss out...but they can get what they want if they work at it...Why should this game cater to 'instant gratification'? So what if we don't get that group of people..they would just try to get to end game in 1 month and if they couldn't do that they would be mad anyway...

I spent more than enough time in FFXIV and the whole game was boring because it's too easy...too fast to get to end game...Well guess what, This game doesn't have that...it is no end game...no grinding..no boring gaming that is ruining the MMOs of today...We have a game that is awesome. And you can get a house without buying them. It has been stated over and over you can buy one with in game currency. We do not know the amount of land there will be in this game...it's going to grow and grow...and maybe grow more if it's needed to get even more people in a house...Just because everyone can't get a house doesn't harm the game. Did I quit playing games because I couldn't get everything I wanted? No...That's what makes me keep playing, is the goal to work towards getting everything I want.

This game will offer so much more than the games of today...Don't let this whole housing thing make you think this game will get bad reviews...I think it will actually cause more popular reviews because it's unique and not just like every other game...It is not Instanced boring housing...yuck...

Sorry to keep posting, normally I just let it flow but trying to stir up some excitement in our game here rather than worrying about things that probably won't happen anway...and even if there are bad reviews, which there of course will be, so what? It comes down to, is it fun?

 

Money is not the only inequality that exists though. I work a full time job and also study full time throughout the entire year.

In terms of time to invest I don't have the time to grind the gold for house deeds. So if I can;t buy a plot of land then I am unfairly excluded as I will not have available to me the same time economy as a player that only studies at collage or university or only works full time or may not work at all.

Why should the game be reserved for them?

I have not read anywhere that there will be no hosues for in game sale at release so those peopel still have the opportunity to sepnd their surpluss time budget while I spend my surplus monetary budget.

Games are always Pay to Win it just depends on if your currency is time or cash and since Time = money then in the case of buying what amounts to vanity housing I am fully behind it.

it tends to be unpopular when i equate time and money as finite resources that in same cases should be interchangeable as for some reason spending more time in game doing menial tasks is more 'valid'.

But, many of us who played games in the way back are adults with mortgages, families and responsabiltiies now with less time and more money. I don't plan on letting opportunities for me to continue to engage as fully with games I love pass me by because someone else thinks time spent in game is more precious then enjoying what time I can spare for a game.

 

From what I've read their are about 5000 house plots in the game, so you think that 5000 players can sustain this game and ensure the funds are available to make the next 4 episodes, If they sell 100000 copies at $40-£50
and 50% of them are hoping to get a house but have limited funds will they be happy that those that can only spend a little time in the game playing House because they can pay $200 for one.
If you have been playing games since way back as you put it you will know there was no such thing as Pay to Win they were subscription based and they were willing to pay $10 monthly.

Housing seems to be the games main Selling & Design factor take that from the gameplay and it will not sell to serious gamers, I expect it will become an island with towns created all around the Coast just another pointless bit of Dross floating in a world full of it and the vanity gamers that inhabit them.

 

I beta tested in EQ2 while out for 6 months on temp disability from a car accident... back then I had endless time to play. I used to spend an hour or 2 a day just wandering around collecting resources to sell (or craft) and since I solo alot good gear is real important. That's how I made money. Today is a different story, I don't have 16 hours a day to play any more(unless I cut out sleeping/showering etc lol ) I thought about my donation amount for the last 3 weeks... and also about just buying a plot of land.

I'm an "Explorer" and bought a plot of land. (yeah it was a smack to my credit card, if christmas is good to me I will pay off the charges...and after getting in and seeing the game in Alpha/Beta I might move up to Edlemann or Knight.

I played UO for several years and ended up getting my first "house" off of ebay after playing for a few months. I bought an account that had a small sandstone in a nice spot on dagger island. I was going to resell the account until oddly enough, my friend that got me into playing UO freaked when she saw my new account that the main "toon" was a character that she knew in game that the rp group she was with "Britainnia's Guard" this character was in an "evil" rp guild that they had regularly rp'd pvp battles. So I kept the account "he" had a change of heart and switched to the "good" side. It was alot of fun and got me rp'ing for the first time.

Housing was always a big deal in UO, and I think the $120 for the plot was worth it in the long run. It supports the game and gives me a place to store stuff and eventually craft at home(I like to mine) But housing isn't required. Join a guild, make friends in the game...get a few rl friends to play and buy a plot together, set it as a guild house and store extra stuff there... but as the expansions come out, housing will increase. I played wow for years with no housing and limited bank spots... just go out and play and enjoy the game!

 

How is a report justified for such a mild post?

 

@deryk:
Having a house may not be required... But for a lot of people, yourself included, it is desired. Let's say that houses and lots are removed from the cash shop at launch. Right now, they exist to allow players to continue to back the game's development. But if they really want to be fair with it at launch, they will make it so that anyone who comes in after that point are all on equal footing. Let's say you waited until the game launched to get your house. And let's say that all of those 5000 lots got bought up pretty quick and you missed out. You may be able to hold to the "house not required" position, but the "house is desired" part of you would, I think, leave a bad taste in your mouth, considering that your inability to get a house would be due to a stupid arbitrary decision. The mechanics as I understand them are robust enough to allow a solution to the problem. And you know? Those unity designers in the community would probably volunteer their time to create settlement maps according to specific criteria Portalarium lays out. So the actual devs won't have to do more than pick through the submitted scenes to find the one that looks the best, then hook it up to the game by linking a hex to it.

Now like I have said before, and it seems to be ignored by everyone who has commented on my postings. A new settlement need not be opened until ALL of the official buildable zones are filled. Also, a point that seems to be ignored is that these new settlements would ideally have a limit to small houses, with maybe one medium house at the center to serve as the town hall. The idea is not to replace the prestige that comes with having a house in a city, but just to make it so that there are places people can live if they want to. Even with this, there will probably be those content to hold out until the next chapter comes out, ushering in new cities to build in. But for those who want to have a place to call their own, set up shop in, and have vendors in, this is the ideal solution.

The important thing here is CHOICE. Players should be able to choose whether or not they have a house. Some arbitrary decision made at the design process should not decide it for them. Like I said, if things stand as they are, then Portalarium will have instituted a system that automatically will treat the customers who will be sustaining the game after launch as second or third class citizens. The first-class citizens will have gotten their plots and houses through their financial contributions pre-launch. The second-class citizens will get their plots and houses from what is left over when the game goes live. Both the first- and second-class citizens will make up the "haves." Everyone else who comes in after that, will be the third-class citizens and will make up the "Have-nots."

We've got enough class warfare and hard feelings in the real world. We do not need a game to push the same feelings of inequity on its players.

As much as I want this and any MMO-style game to have a level of realism, it needs to remain a game. And what is the point of a game if not for fun? Nothing ruins a fun experience for people more than being told they cannot have fun for no good reason. And in my opinion, with technology where it is at now, and the way this game is being designed, there is no good reason why housing, at least on its most basic level, should not be openly available to everyone willing to do what the game mechanics require them to do to get one.

In the case of wilderness settlements like I have suggested in this thread, one of the requirements would be that no player whose character would be a resident of such a settlement can have a plot elsewhere in the game, either in a city or in another wilderness settlement. This way, plotsellers cannot buy up wilderness settlement plots and hold them for ransom. They would be expressly for those who just want a house.

Here's another idea... Make it so that plots that can be bought in official cities can ONLY be bought for the same prices as are on the cash shop now. If players want to have the prestige of living in an actual game city, then let them plunk down their real money for it. Let wilderness housing as I have suggested be purchasable for in-game currency, with the house size limitations imposed on it. Don't like that idea? Well then you don't need a house. See what I did there? And no, I don't really think that is a good idea. But it is an idea just like the one Portalarium has arbitrarily decided on which will simply cut a significant number of players out of even having an OPTION to buy a house.

Want to know the truth? I do not really care if I personally get a house in this game. But I do care that the system as we currently understand it is NOT a fair one.

 

Think about it for a minute. Nothing causes a forum discussion to explode into a flame war faster than someone belittling someone else's circumstance. If someone comes in complaining about how unfair the system is because even though they have the gold to buy a plot with, no plots are available because they've all been bought up and the devs cannot be bothered to open new plots up until they are ready to release the next chapter, which could be nearly a year off. How do you think that person will feel if someone popped off with an arrogant, "Too bad for you, I got mine!" statement. The backlash that will follow from not only the person who posted the initial complaint about the system, but from everyone else who is in the same boat as him. So there is nothing mild about it.

I promise that I will report every instance I see of arrogant elitism presented by land owners towards those who came on board after the game launches. Why? Because in the real world, the are not elite or superior to me. So I will be glad to help keep things real for them. Reason for reporting? "Potentially inflammatory comment"

 

I agree that Founder vs Backer vs non-Homeowner elitism won't be good for the game, but if "too bad" is a 'potentially inflammatory comment', then so is "jerk-wad," and we're left with a forum where nobody can say anything for fear of punishment. I support moderation, but I think that this would count as over-moderation spurred by self-righteousness.

 

Basically what GBJackson is saying is that those sorts of comments only serve to make the community more toxic. I think the real life money stuff, housing etc, have already started to create a toxic, tiered community. It'll be worse after launch. But hey - social stratification is realistic, right? =P