"Player housing major part of game" (from 6 month demo)

I am generally a big supporter of the effort the team have made on SOTA to date and their amazing openess with the community... BUT, I've become a bit concerned about the comment made about how player housing will be a major part of the game.

I'm wondering how this can be when ther are only around 400 to 800 housing slots and hopefully tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions of players?

I guessed at 400 based on 20 towns with 20 housing slots, then doubled that for the high estimate.

Also, for me the more important aspects of this game (as the spiritual successor to Ultima series) is:

Immersive story
Likeable and believable NPCs (e.g. from Ultima VII)
Great gameplay (building up character, exploring the world, conquering foes).
Immersive story
Immersive story

What do others think? Are they putting to much emphasis on housing?

 

They have a catch-22 here. If player housing is important, then they shouldn't sell it. That makes the game buy to win which:
1) Harms the have nots because they miss a big chunk of the game.
2) Harms the have because they don't really have something to work for.

So they either need to change something or to ensure that player housing really isn't all that important.

 

... And if it's important only from a 'decorative angle', then it's still not really important at all as far as gameplay, so in that case a limited 400 to 800 players will have fun decorating houses right?

 

They continue to push for additional funding, the main draw to the higher tiers are lots and houses; thus they emphasize housing. I don't think it's "needed" to "win" the game, it's nice to have if you care to play the non-questing side of the game. KS backers (like myself) bought into the idea of the game, it's direction and RG and his crew.

Right now, housing is pretty easy so it's no wonder they are pushing it to continue increased funding. If the housing market were majorly watered down, then rewards for high level backers is way watered down. I'm with PrimeRib on this one, it's a touchy situation with no real "right" answer.

What we don't know vastly outweighs what we know (or think we know) about the game, we need to place a good deal of trust in the SotA team that they will make smart, informed decisions. There are certainly at least 2 sides to this game (questing as the Avatar and the persistent world) and you can choose to play one or both. We really don't have any hard numbers about just how many lots will be available for Ep 1. I would imagine there are people that will be happy to play the game offline/solo and just run the quests so they don't care what goes on.

The things we can buy in the add-on store don't win the game for us, they do make it more enjoyable f0r those that plan to live in the persistent online world for the next several years.

 

@Seir, I agree with what you're saying. I guess it was the emphasis they put on housing in the 6 month video that concerned me, otherwise I'm totally looking forward to this amazing game they are building for us!

p.s. I'll probably end up buying a house ;-)

 

Yes. If part of the game is to let people play Sims / Farmville, why cut them out?
I realize you can earn a house in game but if someone wants to RP, why have a barrier of slaying 100 dragons and PvP to get this? It's just a mismatch.

I think between lot/house/basement they should have figured out how to give everyone some kind of starter, then figured out what might make sense in the store, then figure out what you could earn in the game by doing various things.

e.g. everyone gets plain house in bad lot. Pretty houses get sold in stores. Various PvE resource / wealth accumulation activities convert level 1 house to level 2 house. PvP determines placement of lot. As I've said before if there's a fixed number of lots, it's zero sum and PvP by definition...even if this means economic (bidding) or political (votes). Scarcity means competing with other players.

 

Would be cool to give everyone an instanced starter house maybe, and let people earn/buy there way out into the real, persistent world. I just don't know how else (or where else) you would house 10's of thousands of houses in the persistent map.

 

There are many people, myself included, who enjoy making those 4 walls my own as much as I do going out and adventuring in game. I think the way housing was done in UO was one of the largest contributors to it's longevity. Seeing a friend's house with all the accoutrements of their play time, from various dye tubs, to statues, tapestries, plants, and crafting implements made the game far, far more immersive for those of us who enjoy it. I hope they not only take what was best from UO's housing but also expand it to making it even more accessible for those who aren't owners themselves. If I decide to raise my pledge level to Edelmanm, and the mechanics are there, I will certainly allow all my new friends access to my place. It is a way for me to not just represent myself well, but the guild I represent and this style of gaming as a whole.

 

We are early in development and housing is simply what they have been working on the most so far. It's only natural that they want to show it off, and people who donated thousands of euro/dollars deserve to see what house they get. It will also help people to decide if they want to donate a higher tier, with more information on what they get. This ultimately means more money to make a better game overall.

 

Currently there are at a minimum 2,930 lots with only 3% unsold. I wouldn't go as far to say that housing isn't important. To some it means a great deal, so it has to mean just as much to Portalarium, or they might find themselves having a hard time of paying all the bills. Where I sort of agree with you on the matter is the difference in focus that goes into the inside versus the lack of focus on variety of the outside. To me the outside is the more important aspect about housing because this is what the vast majority of us will see. This is what gives a town or village it's ambiance, but we don't see as many options, or props for the outside to help bring out more ambiance. I'm sure more will come in time, but I'd like to see more than just yard props. It would be great to see a choice of different faces for the outside of each building or different window casings and doors for the same home. Optional fences has been requested. Anything that would help bring variety without having to make totally different homes.

 

I posted this in another thread, so I'll repeat it here.

And if anyone feels down because they think it's all about housing and crafting and microftransactions and fishing poles and whatever, here's a few links:

Virtues Hangout of the Avatar - video here, transcript here
Shroud of the Avatar Story Hour with Richard and Tracy - video here, transcript here
Shroud of the Avatar Dev Chat with Richard and Tracy - video here, transcript here
Story Sneak Peak #1, #2, #3, #4

Just remember, they are giving us an entire single player offline epic RPG. And if you want to take it online, the story gets even better as they are designing a rich and complex multiplayer story RPG that's going to blow us all away (seriously, watch the videos or read the transcripts above). Ignoring that, go play in the sandbox they're creating, with all of those other wonderful things like housing and crafting and fishing and guilds and yes, PvP.

I highly recommend everyone watch those videos, especially Story Hour. Here's a snippet that gave me goosebumps.

GD:
Another question coming from chat. DavenRock wants to know what can you tell us about how the story deals with the new immense amount of Avatars appearing in the world.

TH:
<LAUGHS MISCHIEVOUSLY>

RG:
So you now you get into the definition of the term "avatar". So as some people maybe know I used the word avatar in Ultima 4. It was to describe the -- well first of all the Hindu word means "the incarnation of a belief or philosophy usually a deity on Earth in physical form". And that's what I liked this being your avatar, well first of all, the character you play is your avatar, no matter how many people you are. Just like in the movie Avatar is now become the generic term for your projection into another body in another reality or another purpose.
So depending if you use the little letter 'a' or the capital letter 'A' for avatar the story is somewhat different. The story, part of the whole point of me needing to reach out to someone with the skills that Tracy has was I because I wanted to tell a multiplayer story. I wanted to tell a story that was not about, I'm the Avatar with a capital A and you're not. Because of that course means it has to be a solo player game and we have to have blinders one and ignore the fact that he thinks he's playing the same story if we see each other.
We've created a new story. This new story is, everyone has a role to play, and while we can't tell you about "winning" this game and how and why that may transpire either similarly or profoundly differently for every player that plays it, that's the challenge we wanted to undertake. So fear not that is exactly what we're doing. So I don't know if Tracy you want to allude to a little bit about how we're telling a multiplayer story.

TH:
Yeah actually the mechanics of that are pretty exciting. In story terms rather than game terms, because I think story terms are more easily recognized. Is there more than one avatar in the world? Absolutely. There are many avatars in the world. And avatars returning to the world in many places here are, is seen as an invasion. It is, and an unwelcome one. Things seem to be going pretty well without them, thank you very much.
Is there an avatar with a capital A, is there a destined one here to some great purpose? Yes, yes there is, and is he among the avatars, is she among the avatars? Yes, I believe that they are. But how that is determined in the course of our game and the course of our story and is all part of the structure of the story that we're trying to tell. So is there a valid reason why there are so many avatars in the world? Absolutely. Is that seen as a good thing?
Absolutely not, at least not to the local inhabitants that are here and who are used to the power structures and societies that they've developed on their own, no thanks to the avatar thank you very much. So it actually is a wonderful incorporation of both story and game over an epic period of play and time. So I guess the answer to that is yes, there is a very good reason why there are so many avatars who are here. Not only does it not break the story, it is an integral part of the story. And is there a destiny for an avatar? Absolutely. Absolutely. We just can't tell you about it.

RG:
<LAUGHS MISCHIEVOUSLY> And you know there might even be more than one...destiny.

There's so much to the story that they want to tell us, but THEY CAN'T REVEAL EVERYTHING! Just sit tight, enjoy the Story Sneak Peaks in the weekly Updates and the upcoming episodic novels for backstory. It's going to be awesome once this epic story can be told and we'll get to be a part of it, in some way or another.

 

@smack, thanks, I hadn't seen that post on Story Time... makes me feel much better about the game being multi-player and having a good story

I'm really hoping they create some NPCs with believable/likeable/hateable personalities too.

 

This is the first time that I have seen this. May I ask where this information is from?

 

Just added up the Kickstarter "Limited" numbers and, including another 20 for the Baron 3 addition that recently occurred, that is 1990 plots "available" to early backers (701 of which were claimed during the KS period. I would guess less than double that now).

And that's just what was available to be pre-claimed. I am CERTAIN that there will be some percentage of housing above that intended to be earned in game only for those who can not afford the pledge levels or the add-on prices.

I would hope for 3-5000 housing plots for initial release, with at least 33% available to the players at large.

 

It won't require instancing. All it requires is for any hex in the main map to become linked to a new buildable zone, similar to a town, except that it would be entirely driven by players. Zones like this would only open up after ALL existing lots in the game have become occupied with a house. Ideally, the hex where the first new buildable zone is located should be very near to the first original town that had all of its lots occupied. The next new buildable zone would only open up after the first new buildable zone is fully occupied.

It's not that hard of a solution. Portalarium simply has to want to make it happen. If player housing is going to be as big a part of the game as has the amount of coverage of it suggests. and at the same time be as limited as suggested, there will be a lot of upset people among the masses who will come to this game when it launches. That specific concern is being discussed in the thread "Population Pressure", where I have weighed in heavily on the issue.

I voted no in this poll. Player Housing is always one of the most requested features of any MMO in development, and it seems to be taken to a whole new level in SotA. As such, it should be emphasized as a feature. I just hope that an amicable solution will be presented to ensure that EVERYONE has the ability to participate in it, regardless of how soon or late they come to the game.

 

2,730 lots sold in packages + an additional 88 village lots sold out of the 200 for sale = 3% unsold.

 

Where are you getting your number of 2730 sold in packages? That's not from the Kickstarter numbers and we have no way of knowing how many packages have been pledged for or upgraded into since the Kickstarter ended.

 

Correct, I should have used the word "sold". As for the number 2,730 that is a total of a list some one posted with the initial packages so we don't know the total sales of packages, but if the list was correct we do know the total number of intended plots for episode 1.

 

The will have another source of income.
They just can't communicate it.

And the way all the discussions are in the forum begging for more house lots is a proof they are doing all just perfectly correct.

 

Considering that housing is likely destined to be extremely limited and pricy, I voted yes. At the moment, I understand showcasing the backer rewards for the housing-hungry backers, but I hope that in the future Portalarium shifts their focus to features that everyone will be able to use.