Cryptocurrency & SOTA

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by DavidDC, Jan 8, 2018.

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  1. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Many people think as you do and yet

     
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  2. Stundorn

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    I'd say that this is too much and also my personal and mostly uncommon pov.
    Maybe in short: when it began that they give out more money than they really had in stock and it was more about speculating and risiko investment it becomes too abstract and greedy for me.
    Few enrich themself by doing nothing productive or deliver a real Service.
    Afaik many transactions are based on hypothetic stuff, if this and that happens than this and that develop so and so abd therefore we "create" or giveaway this amount of money etc...
    The problem with CC is it can easily be exploited and there is or was no fair start or does something exist to control it.
    My main point is there is nothing of a real value. Nothing productive, no Service, but you buy things, food, material what need to be produced and what need to be done with real physical work.
    All wealth is based on people working on a field sowing seeds, digging in the earth, take and use a hammer, screwdriver and a tongue. We sure have a lot of automization, robotic and stuff in some parts of world society but the truth still is we do kolonialism, we exploit and such.
    Cryptocurrency want to generate wealth out of nothing, but energy use or better waste imo.
     
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  3. Stundorn

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    Were you ever in china and met people like him and understand Chinese mentality?
    I was 6 times there, i have "family" there, i was in Dalian 2 times.
    I just can smile and then feel sorry about this.
    It all will cause more social imbalances.
    Capitalism in its base isnt bad like communism base idea isnt bad.
    The bad is what people make of it how they exploit it because they are greedy and such.
     
  4. Spartus

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    I agree with most of what @Stundorn said and here's why:

    It has been hypothesized in recent years that there is an equivalence between information and energy, since the equations between information entropy (from shannon's information theory) and thermodynamic entropy (from physics) are the same. Money seems to be a high-level representation of energy in our society, and those who control this energy, which mostly comes from the sun or arrangement of the matter that comprises our earth, can induce people to perform physical work for them to obtain some of that energy, which gives them great power. Information does a similar thing, which is why so many people want to control it.

    I'm not an economist, but I do know that whether you're an economist, physicist, or information technologist, there is a common rule: you cannot get something from nothing. When you get something, whether it is the value of a cryptocurrency that keeps increasing, the blueprints to a futuristic teleportation machine, the force needed to elevate a flying vehicle, or whether it is simply the fuel that heats your home, there is going to be a deficit somewhere (just basic logic will tell you this), and at a high, societal level, this deficit often comes from concentrations of energy such as the the savings or possessions of other people, who will eventually find themselves to be missing something, and a little bit poorer. Entropy tells us that concentrations (order) are also more unstable than diffuse arrangements (disorder), and are more easily destroyed. It makes sense from this perspective that people's savings are often at risk.

    Now the question is--if what you are getting is coming from other people, did those people give their agreement for you to vaporize and siphon off their possessions? Or did you take them without their consent or knowledge? I was a kid during the 80's and never understood why the adults argued over inflation, which we don't do as much today (yet)... Now I understand why.

    This is a moral topic, not a technical one. Like a lot of technical topics, many of those technicians that benefit from other's ignorance will often try to keep those people ignorant if they gain an advantage in some way (by redefining language to obfuscate, by failing to clearly explain the underlying process, etc, etc), and claim the opponents simply lack understanding.

    Thankfully, one can always look to fundamentals and bound the problem--we can at least determine if something violates a universal law without knowing exactly how that technical, and often fleeting, thing works. It's interesting that the term "technical" is related to "technique", the manner in which practical knowledge is carried out, like a secret set of instructions that only the "technician", the magician of the technique, really knows.

    Years ago, I once had a friend who tried to convince me to join her network marketing team, essentially a pyramid scheme cult, and when I tried to press her or her cult friends for details on how their system actually worked, they misdirected or tried to shame me and my skepticism in front of the group. They actually had an official category for people like me, called the "engineer", which they used to instruct their other cult members how to handle, and which she tried to apply on me.

    The energy consumed to mine cryptocurrency is not the same energy that is being used to inflate its value. When bitcoin, for example, was first created, there was only a tiny fraction of energy needed by comparison, yet the owners of those bitcoins now suddenly find themselves in the possession of a large amount of it. And the energy needed to "mine" them MUST be less than their value, or their predicted future value, or there would be no reason to mine them at all. Where does this extra energy come from that keeps increasing its value?

    Many people might remember playing a version of "king of the hill" as a kid, the kid on the top of the hill was the winner or "king". Hills are great analogies for entropy. It took kinetic energy to climb to the top and fight off the king to reach a state of order, but, if you could maintain this balance on top of the hill, it took less energy to keep other kids down, send them into a state of disorder, once you were there.

    But originators of cryptocurrency are as if a kid just decided, "Hey I'm already on a hill--if I can just trick the other kids that live in the valley into believing that where I am at is the top and make them work to claim my place, then I can be the king of my own kingdom." This pattern isn't unique to cryptocurrency, it has been going on since the dawn of civilization, and there are, of course analogies to SoTA itself, a virtual kingdom, as games (and gambling) often share similarities, yet have different ethical interpretations.

    Is that king really a king? Some would argue yes, it is his birthright, that his time in society has come due to his place in the universe (potential energy) or his knowhow or foresight, but this type of belief, in my opinion, is a self-serving delusion to justify one's superiority.

    Because cryptocurrencies are essentially investments that were first adopted by white-collar technologists, in my opinion, it is now in their best interest to convince the rest of the public to adopt them, while keeping the technical details too complex for the everyday worker who is just making a living to understand.

    Cyptocurrency is not a scarce resource as some proponents would like you to believe--that's like saying that paper is scarce. Sure you have to mine bitcoins from a diminishing cryptographic pool, but anyone can create their own cryptocurrency, just like anyone can print their own fake paper money. It just comes down to whether or not the non-holders of the cryptocurrency, those metaphorical kids in the valley, reject the attempts for the holders to persuade them of the value of their paper, which I hope we do (reject the attempt to create value out of nothing).

    But again, I'm not an economist nor an investor, and history may prove me wrong. I'm just a thinker with a personal moral code, so you'll have to interpret the information for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  5. Stundorn

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    I have not the ability to write something you did in english, but this is very well explained.
    Thank you.
     
  6. Spartus

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    Danke. Ich habe im amerikanisch Universitäte Deutsch studerin, für acht Jahre, aber heute es is sehr schlecht. Dein Englisch ist sehr gut. :)
     
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  7. moxiepilot

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    My opinion is this concept would just elevate a end user who is computer and technically savvy ahead of the casual gamer, again giving a huge advantage to one particular set of players. If you don't think 3 COTOs a week is huge, ask any new player how many they have.

    The entry level requisites continue to get steeper and steeper and this just increases the gap. I don't see that bringing in more players.
     
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  8. 2112Starman

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    I personally dont think SOTA should be tied in at all with Cryptocurrencies. When those ponzie schemes pop in the near future, they are almost getting big enough to hit our economy (billions of dollars vanish in what will be called the internet 2.0 pop which will set a world record for ponzie scheme size). On the flip side, I am very interested in seeing what the real technology behind the ponzie end up being used in real life (block chain).
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  9. LiquidBlaze

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    If crypto currency is good enough for Toyota, Microsoft, Sisco, Mastercard etc, its good enough for SOTA. That's kind of like saying, hey lets not accept euros.
     
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  10. Spartus

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  11. Satan Himself

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    Heh. Try to buy a Toyota with Bitcoin and let us know how it goes.

    The LAST thing SOTA should do is focus any of its precious energy and capital on mining a “currency” that has no intrinsic value and the price of which is supported solely by momentum, hedge fund shenanigans, amateur traders and a Fear of Missing Out. When everyone and their dog starts talking about an investment opportunity, it’s time to sell, not buy.
     
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  12. yinki2

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    i would support any attempt of portalarium in using blockchain!

    wish game gold was crypto on blockchain.
     
  13. Nelzie

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    Nobody should be leaving their computer just running all day. It's such a waste of electricity.
     
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  14. Nelzie

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    Cryptocurrency is FAR to volatile and the process it takes to buy/sell things using it is SO slow that it isn't useful as a currency.

    Right now, it is intangible. The only "value" it has is simply because people "feel" it has value. It isn't truly backed by anything, not the good faith of a government, not a tangible material or item. If you got in a long time back... Cool. Cash out and go do something safer with your money. Most of the coins are currently held by a handful of people, if they dump all their coins, flooding the market, the bottom will fallout as they extract less "wealth" as they dump off their coins.

    Will it rebound after that? Who knows?
     
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  15. Stundorn

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    I dont need much people knowledgeable to truly "see" those merchandising and blogging about Bitcoin on YT to know they are greedy a...holes, tricksters and in general poor about empathy and emotional intelligence.
     
  16. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I dont know how much u guys pay for electricity where u live, but leaving 1 computer open for a month here is nothing. I got my tv always open, 2 computers always running, both mining, i see 0 change in my montly bill. The only way it would cost me is having actual riggs, that use a bigger power supply and many more graphic cards. Thats the industrial setup of mining.

    Also saying bitcoin is hypothetical money is a lack of knowledge from you. There are real company trying to accomplish stuff out there. There are ICO (which act like kickstarter). Alot of project are being made possible with bitcoin. And its also an obligation for ALL USERS that use bitcoin to pay a taxes on it. Now, if you want to hide yourself from fiat currency, you can also do it you know that? Please dont point a new currency being more risky than another. Its the same damn thing. And bitcoin isnt exploitable like stundorn says, its the user that is exploitable from lack of knowledges and being vulnerable.


    That is what you think, the fact is it has a value. Most companies that truly use bitcoin right now for anything declare their stuff for taxes.


    By the way, you guys know that bitcoins transfert can now be tracked right?
    Like i said and im going to repeat this, if you dont know the subject or if it scare you no problem, stay away from it. In that time, we gonna make some money.
     
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  17. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Here some example of winning companys using bitcoins:

    https://www.dentwireless.com/
    https://ripple.com/

    Ill only give 2, i suggest you check their sponsor and partners. There is over thousands coin. Each of them have a good plan, working applications, and are regulated.
     
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  18. LiquidBlaze

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    Aye, Bitcoin itself, It's ethereum I'm speaking of. Right now it's in the works. The big boys don't like bitcoin itself from what I see, one can easily trade said bitcoin or any other coin for said ethereum, or in turn cash in your bank account. Coinbase and binance are 2 good sites to be a part of. Sure back when bitcoin started I was skeptical, but now after it's example, one can only be naive. I think they did a live 75 thousand dollar trade on nbc this morning showing the pleebs so time is of the essence.
     
  19. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Microsoft never mentionned they completly stopped using bitcoin. The main problem right now with that coin (The Bitcoin itself) is its a slow transaction system, which requires tons of fees. Just because alot of peolpe are using it.
    Tons of others coin are trying to solve this problem by having not minable coin (Like Ripple) and transaction are alot faster.

    Here an example why a company would not allow bitcion anymore:
    I paid my webserver with bitcoin 4 day ago. They are using a service called Stripe which regulate bitcon in UK for companys that want to receive that as payment. The problem is, they ask for X amount of dollars, the time they receive bitcoin (which is 2 days, because there is too much traffic and coin need to be mined) the amount of cash worth as bitcoin changed, so they arent accepting the funds anymore and pay you back. All the fees paid by user are lost, and you never got your service.

    That would be the case for microsoft. They arent stopping accepting crypto currency, they disabled it until they find a better way to do it. Ripple have a better way to do it. So we will see in the near futur what happen with them.
     
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  20. Sorthious

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    Several problems with this idea. If you're running a GPU/CPU intensive game and trying to Mine on top of that, you are likely to either get bad game performance, or not make enough money to pay for the additional electricity costs. Every computer setup is going to be different. You really need to evaluate each GPU or CPU to make sure that your setup would even make you any money, and, even if it is profitable, will you be making enough to buy a new GPU when you burn your current one out from all the extra strain you put on it. I looked into it before and I have an RX480 8-gig GPU(at the time it gave the best payout; something like $5 per day), and I would have to leave my computer running 24hrs a do to get this amount. To me that really wasn't worth lowering the life expectancy of my video card and the rest of my computer for such a small amount of money. If I had a dedicated setup with like 6 video cards, a good cooling system and a dedicated PC to run the mining software, I might consider that. Not sure running a game and mining concurrently is such a good idea.
     
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